pdfTeX questions

pdfTeX questions

[Peter Münster]

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Hello,
I have some questions concerning pdfTeX, the following example illustrates
the problems:

\setupoutput[pdftex]
\enableregime[il1]

\pdfinfo{ /Title (\"Ubung) /Author (Münster) } % neither \"U nor ü work

\pdfcatalog{ /PageMode /FullScreen } % this works well

\pdfdest num 1 fitbh % I would like to get the same result as in LaTeX with
                     % \hypersetup{pdfstartview={FitBH}}
\starttext

some text
\externalfigure[example][width=5cm]
some text, jpeg-figure is shifted down and to the left.
The file example.jpg is attached.

The versions:
pdfeTeX, Version 3.14159-1.10b-2.1 (Web2C 7.4.5)
ConTeXt  ver: 2004.3.16  fmt: 2004.5.18  int: english  mes: english

\stoptext

TIA for any help, Peter

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[-- Attachment #2: example.jpg --]
[-- Type: IMAGE/jpeg, Size: 2718 bytes --]

Re: pdfTeX questions

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,

why don't you use \setupinteraction for this?

> \pdfinfo{ /Title (\"Ubung) /Author (Münster) } % neither \"U nor ü work


\setupinteraction[title=Übung,Author=Münster]

> \pdfcatalog{ /PageMode /FullScreen } % this works well

\setupinteraction[option=max]

> \pdfdest num 1 fitbh % I would like to get the same result as in LaTeX with
>                      % \hypersetup{pdfstartview={FitBH}}

what does this do?

Patrick
-- 
Es wird kein Wunder geschehen

Re: pdfTeX questions

[Patrick Gundlach]

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Hello again,

> \externalfigure[example][width=5cm]
> some text, jpeg-figure is shifted down and to the left.

I don't see that it is shifted to the left, but slightly down (I
wonder where this is aligned?). And \externalfigure eats up the
whitespace after "5cm]". This is sligthly confusing.

This is pdfeTeXk, Version 3.141592-1.11a-2.1 (Web2C 7.5.2)
ConTeXt  ver: 2004.4.9  fmt: 2004.4.16  int: english  mes: english

I'll attach a screenshot.


[-- Attachment #2: Bild2.pdf --]
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[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 43 bytes --]


Patrick
-- 
Es wird kein Wunder geschehen

Re: pdfTeX questions

[Patrick Gundlach]

correction:

>> \pdfcatalog{ /PageMode /FullScreen } % this works well
>
> \setupinteraction[option=max]

\setupinteractionscreen[option=max] 

(...screen)


Patrick

Re: Re: pdfTeX questions

[Peter Münster]

On Mon, 31 May 2004, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

> \setupinteraction[title=Übung,Author=Münster]

Thanks, I missed those keys in the manual.
Ü is still not working, perhaps I should update to ConTeXt-2004.4.9 ?

It seems, that there is no key named "keywords" ?

> > \pdfdest num 1 fitbh % I would like to get the same result as in LaTeX with
> >                      % \hypersetup{pdfstartview={FitBH}}

> what does this do?

FitBH means, fit to width of bounding box. When reading text on the screen,
the combination of FullScreen and FitBH seems to me optimal.

When you create a pdf-file of the following LaTeX-source (with pdflatex),
you see all features, I'm looking for:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\hypersetup{pdfstartview=FitBH,pdfpagemode=FullScreen,
  pdfauthor={Peter Münster},pdftitle={A title},pdfsubject={The subject},
  pdfkeywords={some keywords}}
\begin{document}
\section{Section with ö, with bookmark}
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
\end{document}

BTW, how do you create bookmarks with ConTeXt?
I tried the following, but it did not work:

\setupoutput[pdftex]
\enableregime[il1]
\setupinteraction[state=start,menu=on]
\setupinteractionmenu[left][state=start]
\setupinteractionscreen[option=bookmark]
\starttext
\section{Section with ö}
some text
\stoptext

Cheers, Peter

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http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/
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Re: Re: pdfTeX questions

[Peter Münster]

On Mon, 31 May 2004, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

> > \externalfigure[example][width=5cm]
> > some text, jpeg-figure is shifted down and to the left.
> 
> I don't see that it is shifted to the left, but slightly down (I
> wonder where this is aligned?).

Indeed, very slightly. But much better than here. So I just have to update
to ConTeXt 2004.4.9.

> And \externalfigure eats up the
> whitespace after "5cm]". This is sligthly confusing.

Yes. I've just seen the same problem with \cite[...] (m-bib). With \cite
it's a bigger problem, because it's in the running text, \externalfigure
in most cases in a \placefigure.

Thanks for your answers, Peter

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Re: pdfTeX questions

[Patrick Gundlach]

Peter Münster <pmlists@free.fr> writes:

>> \setupinteraction[title=Übung,Author=Münster]
>
> Thanks, I missed those keys in the manual.
> Ü is still not working, perhaps I should update to ConTeXt-2004.4.9 ?

a quick test shows that 
/Author (M¸nster) is put in the pdf file, where the Character after
the M is 0xfc. Dunno if this is right.


> It seems, that there is no key named "keywords" ?

Hans?

> FitBH means, fit to width of bounding box. When reading text on the screen,
> the combination of FullScreen and FitBH seems to me optimal.

I could not find anything like this in ConTeXt.


> BTW, how do you create bookmarks with ConTeXt?
> I tried the following, but it did not work:
>
> \setupinteractionscreen[option=bookmark]

\placebookmarks[section]

Patrick
-- 
Es wird kein Wunder geschehen

Re: Re: pdfTeX questions

[Hans Hagen]

At 14:53 31/05/2004, Patrick Gundlach wrote

>a quick test shows that
>/Author (M¸nster) is put in the pdf file, where the Character after
>the M is 0xfc. Dunno if this is right.

dunno either but it is supposed to be in the proper encoding (unicode or 
pdfdoc)

btw, using \pdf... primitives is a bad idea


> > It seems, that there is no key named "keywords" ?
>
>Hans?

it's 'keyword' (e.g. keyword={a,b,c})

for patrick (added to setupb/setupinteraction):

   \variable[\c!trefwoord][\c!text!][]

Hans  

Re: Re: pdfTeX questions

[Hans Hagen]

At 14:20 31/05/2004, you wrote:
>On Mon, 31 May 2004, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
>
> > > \externalfigure[example][width=5cm]
> > > some text, jpeg-figure is shifted down and to the left.
> >
> > I don't see that it is shifted to the left, but slightly down (I
> > wonder where this is aligned?).
>
>Indeed, very slightly. But much better than here. So I just have to update
>to ConTeXt 2004.4.9.

some minor shift may be due to scaling; i recently made things a bit more 
accurate; also, now and then i compensate for nasty pdf situations 
(unfortunate cropping and such)

so, best use the latest

Hans  

Re: Re: pdfTeX questions

[Peter Münster]

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004, Hans Hagen wrote:

> At 14:53 31/05/2004, Patrick Gundlach wrote
> 
> >a quick test shows that
> >/Author (M,nster) is put in the pdf file, where the Character after
> >the M is 0xfc. Dunno if this is right.
> 
> dunno either but it is supposed to be in the proper encoding (unicode or 
> pdfdoc)

I've updated to the newest beta, and here in my pdf-file, I found:
/Author (M\dobuildtextaccent \char 127 unster)

But now I understand:
\setupinteraction[author=Münster] has to come *before* \enableregime[il1] !

> it's 'keyword' (e.g. keyword={a,b,c})

Thanks, Peter

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Re: Re: pdfTeX questions

[Peter Münster]

On Mon, 31 May 2004, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

> > FitBH means, fit to width of bounding box. When reading text on the screen,
> > the combination of FullScreen and FitBH seems to me optimal.
> 
> I could not find anything like this in ConTeXt.

After a while of searching, I found in spec-fdf.tex the following lines:

\def\PDFpageviewkey{  fit}
\def\PDFpageviewwrd{ /Fit}
\def\PDFpageview   {/View [\PDFpageviewwrd] }

I changed /Fit to /FitBH and indeed, I get lines like this:
<</S /GoTo /D [0 /FitBH]>>
in the pdf-file. When clicking on a link, I get into FitBH mode, but not at
startup. Does anybody know a little bit more about PDF to get this working
as in LaTeX?

Cheers, Peter

-- 
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Re: Re: pdfTeX questions

[Hans Hagen]

Peter Münster wrote:

>On Mon, 31 May 2004, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
>  
>
>>>FitBH means, fit to width of bounding box. When reading text on the screen,
>>>the combination of FullScreen and FitBH seems to me optimal.
>>>      
>>>
>>I could not find anything like this in ConTeXt.
>>    
>>
>
>After a while of searching, I found in spec-fdf.tex the following lines:
>
>\def\PDFpageviewkey{  fit}
>\def\PDFpageviewwrd{ /Fit}
>\def\PDFpageview   {/View [\PDFpageviewwrd] }
>
>I changed /Fit to /FitBH and indeed, I get lines like this:
><</S /GoTo /D [0 /FitBH]>>
>in the pdf-file. When clicking on a link, I get into FitBH mode, but not at
>startup. Does anybody know a little bit more about PDF to get this working
>as in LaTeX?
>  
>
\setupinteraction[focus=fit|width|height|standard]

BH is not supported (yet)

\def\dosetuppageview#1%
  {\processaction
     [#1]
     [\v!passend=>\def\PDFpageviewkey{   fit}%
                  \def\PDFpageviewwrd{  /Fit},
   \v!minbreedte=>\def\PDFpageviewkey{  fitbh}%
                  \def\PDFpageviewwrd{ /FitBH},
      \v!breedte=>\def\PDFpageviewkey{  fith}%   
                  \def\PDFpageviewwrd{ /FitH},   
    \v!minhoogte=>\def\PDFpageviewkey{  fitbv}%   
                  \def\PDFpageviewwrd{ /FitBV},   
       \v!hoogte=>\def\PDFpageviewkey{  fitv}%   
                  \def\PDFpageviewwrd{ /FitV},   
    \v!standaard=>\def\PDFpageviewkey{   xyz\PDFpagexyzspec}%
                  \def\PDFpageviewwrd{  /XYZ\PDFpagexyzspec},
      \s!unknown=>\def\PDFpageviewkey{   fit}%
                  \def\PDFpageviewwrd{  /Fit}]%
   \edef\PDFpageview{/View [\PDFpageviewwrd]}}


you need to add the following to mult-con.tex first to get minheight supported 

                minhoogte: minhoogte                 minheight
                           minhoehe                  minvyska
                           altezzamin                inaltimeminima


so now we have minheight and minwidth; can you test that (only when it works i will move it to the driver module; such things were buggy in previous versions of acrobat) 

Hans 

Hans 

Re: Re: pdfTeX questions

[Peter Münster]

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Hans Hagen wrote:

> \setupinteraction[focus=fit|width|height|standard]
> 
> BH is not supported (yet)
> 
> you need to add the following to mult-con.tex first to get minheight supported 
> 
>                 minhoogte: minhoogte                 minheight
>                            minhoehe                  minvyska
>                            altezzamin                inaltimeminima

Thank you, Hans!
I also had to add minbreedte, then my testfile compiled.
With \setupinteraction[state=start,focus=minwidth] I get indeed a line like
this: /D [2 0 R /FitBH 0] in the pdf-file, but Acroread does not start in
this mode... (focus=width does not work neither)

> so now we have minheight and minwidth; can you test that (only when it
> works i will move it to the driver module; such things were buggy in
> previous versions of acrobat)

Yes, I think they are still buggy, but it seems, that newer pdftex versions
know to handle those bugs. At least with pdftex-1.10b and LaTeX, there is
no more problem. (with pdftex-0.14h, there was no hope...)

Greetings, Peter

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Re: pdfTeX questions

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi out there,

>> > It seems, that there is no key named "keywords" ?
>
> it's 'keyword' (e.g. keyword={a,b,c})
>
> for patrick (added to setupb/setupinteraction):
>
>    \variable[\c!trefwoord][\c!text!][]


Thanks. I have added this in texshow-web[1] now. Anybody can change
the definition now by editing the xml source. More info soon.

Patrick (thinking about creating a ConTeXt wiki, see same page as
below, just port number 8062)

[1] http://members.ping.de:8061/

ConTeXt-Wiki (Was: Re: Re: pdfTeX questions)

[Holger Schöner]

Hallo Patrick,

> Patrick (thinking about creating a ConTeXt wiki, see same page as
> below, just port number 8062)
> 
> [1] http://members.ping.de:8061/

Finde ich eine gute Idee! Was mir (neben der Hilfe auf auf der Liste für 
neue Probleme) am meisten bringt, und ich bisher etwas vermisse, sind 
Beispiel-Dokumente (genauer: deren Quellcode).

Im Moment habe ich aufgrund meiner Promotion wenig Zeit, mich in das Wiki 
einzuarbeiten. Was ich zur Verfügung stellen könnte, ist ein include-File 
mit Macros zum Setzen von (hoffentlich) DIN-kompatiblen Briefen, ein 
typescript mit (bisher erst 4 oder 5) verschiedenen Schrift-Definitionen, 
die auf den Schriftdateien der Fontsite500-Distribution, sowie ergänzende 
TeX/LaTeX-Dateien (Link weiss ich momentan gerade nicht, kann ich aber bei 
Bedarf heraussuchen) aufsetzen. Schließlich benutze ich ein Environment, das 
ich von Projekt zu Projekt mitschleppe, und in dem ich alle möglichen mir 
nützlich erscheinenden Definitionen pflege (zum Teil auskommentiert, bzw. 
kommentiert). Alle sind natürlich noch mehr oder weniger Verbesserungsfähig.

Wenn Du etwas davon auf die Seite stellen willst, bevor ich dazu komme
(voraussichtlich ab August, dann ist die Promotion [natürlich in ConTeXt
;-)] hoffentlich fertig), dann kann ich sie Dir per EMail senden.

Viele Grüße,

-- 
Holger F. Schoener	TU Berlin; Dept. IV: EE and Computer Science
hfsch@cs.tu-berlin.de	http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~hfsch/
Rooms FR2525		Tel: +49-30-314-73115, Fax: -73121
Office FR 2-1		Franklinstr. 28/29, D-10587 Berlin, Germany

Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hello Holger and everybody,


>> [starting ConTeXt wiki at] http://members.ping.de:8062/

> Finde ich eine gute Idee! Was mir (neben der Hilfe auf auf der Liste für 
> neue Probleme) am meisten bringt, und ich bisher etwas vermisse, sind 
> Beispiel-Dokumente (genauer: deren Quellcode).
[missing example documents and sources]


What kind of example documents do you think of? I guess that you know
that the magazines on the main ConTeXt site have their source code
included?

Patrick

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Holger Schöner]

Hello,

> >> [starting ConTeXt wiki at] http://members.ping.de:8062/
> 
> > Finde ich eine gute Idee! Was mir (neben der Hilfe auf auf der Liste für 
> > neue Probleme) am meisten bringt, und ich bisher etwas vermisse, sind 
> > Beispiel-Dokumente (genauer: deren Quellcode).
> [missing example documents and sources]
> 
> 
> What kind of example documents do you think of? I guess that you know
> that the magazines on the main ConTeXt site have their source code
> included?

I am sorry for sending the first answer in German; I accidentally sent it to
the whole list.

I was thinking of all kinds of day-to-day documents, like the letter
template I mentioned. I could not find one according to DIN-standards, so I
did some trial-and-error experiments and created my own. Arguments for a 
collection could be:

1) Perhaps a comprehensive and classified collection of sample documents
   could spare others such time consuming trials.

2) On the other hand, my template could for sure be further improved (beyond
   the level, I am capable of), so by putting it on a WIKI, I may get hints
   and feedback by others.

What was your motivation for mentioning such a collection on the WIKI?

Another advantage of the WIKI would be the following: I am often lost, when 
I try to remember, where I found a certain hint/trick/technique I am 
remembering. If there is a place where everyone can edit pages and include 
hints or links to information, then there would be no need to create more 
and more separate web sites about ConTeXt, because the content could be 
placed in the WIKI, or it could at least be linked from there.

-- 
Holger F. Schoener	TU Berlin; Dept. IV: EE and Computer Science
hfsch@cs.tu-berlin.de	http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~hfsch/
Rooms FR2525		Tel: +49-30-314-73115, Fax: -73121
Office FR 2-1		Franklinstr. 28/29, D-10587 Berlin, Germany

Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hello Holger,

>> >> [starting ConTeXt wiki at] http://members.ping.de:8062/

>> What kind of example documents do you think of? I guess that you know
>> that the magazines on the main ConTeXt site have their source code
>> included?

> I was thinking of all kinds of day-to-day documents, like the letter
> template I mentioned. I could not find one according to DIN-standards, so I
> did some trial-and-error experiments and created my own. 

What were the difficulties you ran into?


> Arguments for a collection could be:
>
> 1) Perhaps a comprehensive and classified collection of sample documents
>    could spare others such time consuming trials.

a) it is impossible to have a comprehensive collection of documents.
There are too many faces ConTeXt has.

b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities:

  1)   layout trickery
       macro hacking
       itemize weirdness
       crazy table fun

or

  2)   letters
       articles
       poems
       magazines/newspaper

Any other? Which one makes sense?

> 2) On the other hand, my template could for sure be further improved (beyond
>    the level, I am capable of), so by putting it on a WIKI, I may get hints
>    and feedback by others.

Yes, that would be a great thing. This is actually the reason why I
started this wiki (and texshow-web).

> What was your motivation for mentioning such a collection on the WIKI?

Every 4 months this question arises on this mailinglist. (Not really
true).


> Another advantage of the WIKI would be the following: I am often lost, when 
> I try to remember, where I found a certain hint/trick/technique I am 
> remembering. If there is a place where everyone can edit pages and include 
> hints or links to information, then there would be no need to create more 
> and more separate web sites about ConTeXt, because the content could be 
> placed in the WIKI, or it could at least be linked from there.

And (the best part!) there is a search field in the wiki. So if you
have important information there, get it in a few seconds.

But it is up to every user to add things to the wiki.

Patrick

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Matt Gushee]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2004 at 05:55:24PM +0200, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

> > Arguments for a collection could be:
> >
> > 1) Perhaps a comprehensive and classified collection of sample documents
> >    could spare others such time consuming trials.
> 
> a) it is impossible to have a comprehensive collection of documents.
> There are too many faces ConTeXt has.
> 
> b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities:

Yes, it is hard to classify them (and many other things) if you insist
on forcing them into a single, canonical hierarchy. But what if you
classified documents on the basis of keywords, or key phrases? Then
visitors could either search based on those phrases or browse a keyword
index.

Of course, that assumes your Wiki software has some means of managing
metadata.

And you could just make some arbitrary decisions about what materials 
should be included and how to classify them. Even a very imperfect
collection would be more helpful than none. And if people don't like
your collection, tell them to start their own. Isn't that what the Web
is all about?

-- 
Matt Gushee                 When a nation follows the Way,
Englewood, Colorado, USA    Horses bear manure through
mgushee@havenrock.com           its fields;
http://www.havenrock.com/   When a nation ignores the Way,
                            Horses bear soldiers through
                                its streets.
                                
                            --Lao Tzu (Peter Merel, trans.)

Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi Matt,

>> b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities:
>
> Yes, it is hard to classify them (and many other things) if you insist
> on forcing them into a single, canonical hierarchy. 

Oh, I don't insist on anything; I just don't have clue how to start...

> But what if you classified documents on the basis of keywords, or
> key phrases? Then visitors could either search based on those
> phrases or browse a keyword index.
>
> Of course, that assumes your Wiki software has some means of managing
> metadata.

As far as I can see, it doesn't. But putting keywords on the pages
could help.

> And you could just make some arbitrary decisions about what materials 
> should be included and how to classify them. Even a very imperfect
> collection would be more helpful than none. 

Probably true.

> And if people don't like your collection, tell them to start their
> own. Isn't that what the Web is all about?

Right. Easy to change everything. 


Patrick
-- 
texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[jimarin]

Hi all,

the idea of the keywords is very nice...

in

http://wiki.tcl.tk

you can search for a specific page using the url

like in

http://wiki.tcl.tk/file

even more, you can search all pages containing a word like in:

http://wiki.tcl.tk/menu*

perhaps it could be copied for ConTeXt wiki...don´t know how tclers do
theirs, but I guess they use tcl and they more or less can give some
advice.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers,

Jose Ignacio

> Hi Matt,
>
>>> b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities:
>>
>> Yes, it is hard to classify them (and many other things) if you insist
>> on forcing them into a single, canonical hierarchy.
>
> Oh, I don't insist on anything; I just don't have clue how to start...
>
>> But what if you classified documents on the basis of keywords, or
>> key phrases? Then visitors could either search based on those
>> phrases or browse a keyword index.
>>
>> Of course, that assumes your Wiki software has some means of managing
>> metadata.
>
> As far as I can see, it doesn't. But putting keywords on the pages
> could help.
>
>> And you could just make some arbitrary decisions about what materials
>> should be included and how to classify them. Even a very imperfect
>> collection would be more helpful than none.
>
> Probably true.
>
>> And if people don't like your collection, tell them to start their
>> own. Isn't that what the Web is all about?
>
> Right. Easy to change everything.
>
>
> Patrick
> --
> texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
> ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Maurice Diamantin]

Le 22 juin 04, à 19:13, jimarin@bayesinf.com a écrit :

> the idea of the keywords is very nice...
> in
>   http://wiki.tcl.tk
> you can search for a specific page using the url

yes! it's the best exemple I know about!
No need to define a strict hierchical structure.

Also, this could be the url for hight level FAQ
(this forum it not realy a hight level forum!)
- how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?)
- which/where is the reference documentation
   (don't reply with some recursive answer!)
- how many euro poeple would pay for a reference
   ConTeXt book?

I know these questions has been answered somewhere,
and some days ago,
But I know that because I have followed this
mailing list for months.
But I'm not sure I'm able to find these without asking
to this list!

> like in
>
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/file
>
> even more, you can search all pages containing a word like in:
>
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/menu*
>
> perhaps it could be copied for ConTeXt wiki...don´t know how tclers do
> theirs, but I guess they use tcl and they more or less can give some
> advice.
>
> Just some thoughts.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jose Ignacio

-- Maurice Diamantini   http://www.ensta.fr/~diam

Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,

> the idea of the keywords is very nice...
> in
> http://wiki.tcl.tk
> you can search for a specific page using the url
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/file
>
> even more, you can search all pages containing a word like in:
>
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/menu*

But this is not a pure keyword serach. This is just a fulltext search.

> perhaps it could be copied for ConTeXt wiki...

No, different software. But this is not the point, since you can
search though all pages with the instiki software that I use.

Patrick
-- 
texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062

Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,


> Also, this could be the url for hight level FAQ
> (this forum it not realy a hight level forum!)

Go ahead and put it in the wiki! Its up to us all to put content in
there.


> - how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?)

It is open source, even free software. You can go ahead and change
everything yourself. Pragma ADE has licenced this impressive and
valuable macro package under the terms of the GNU Public License
(GPL)! This is really great! (See mreadme.pdf for details.)


Patrick
-- 
texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Tobias Burnus]

Hello,

Maurice Diamantin wrote:

> - how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?)

Well, ConTeXt is regarded as opensource. The last time I read the 
licence it looked pretty free. In how far do you think should ConTeXt 
become more "open source"? BSD licence without advertising clause? LGPL?
Note that teTeX comes with this licence statement by Thomas Esser 
("doc/context/base/LICENSE.teTeX"):

 "I have taken great care to ensure that teTeX is free
  software. When speaking about free software, I always refer
  to the definition of the Free Software Foundation, given as
  http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/free-sw.html.

  To my understanding, ConTeXt with the mreadme.pdf-license already
  classifies as free software (as defined by the FSF). To be 100% sure
  of this fact, I hereby make ConTeXt free software "by definition"
  by adding the following clause to ConTeXt's license:

  If ConTeXt is not free software by the license in mreadme.pdf, the
  following terms replace the licence for ConTeXt given in mreadme.pdf:
    This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
    it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
    the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
    (at your option) any later version.[...]"

> - which/where is the reference documentation
>   (don't reply with some recursive answer!)

Hmm, the problem is that the documentation is* notoriously outdated and 
incomplete. But I think the "ConTeXt - the manual" is rather good though 
incomplete.
*

> - how many euro poeple would pay for a reference
>   ConTeXt book?

You mean a printed version of the revised/enhanced "ConTeXt - a manual"?

Regards,

Tobias

Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,

> the idea of the keywords is very nice...
> in
> http://wiki.tcl.tk
> you can search for a specific page using the url
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/file
>
> even more, you can search all pages containing a word like in:
>
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/menu*

But this is not a pure keyword serach. This is just a fulltext search.

> perhaps it could be copied for ConTeXt wiki...

No, different software. But this is not the point, since you can
search though all pages with the instiki software that I use.

Patrick
-- 
texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062

Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,


> Also, this could be the url for hight level FAQ
> (this forum it not realy a hight level forum!)

Go ahead and put it in the wiki! Its up to us all to put content in
there.


> - how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?)

It is open source, even free software. You can go ahead and change
everything yourself. Pragma ADE has licenced this impressive and
valuable macro package under the terms of the GNU Public License
(GPL)! This is really great! (See mreadme.pdf for details.)


Patrick
-- 
texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Maurice Diamantin]

Le 23 juin 04, à 10:51, Tobias Burnus a écrit :

> Maurice Diamantin wrote:
>
>> - how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?)
>
> Well, ConTeXt is regarded as opensource.

OK, probably I looked at this file too long ago.
I agree ConTeXt is now Open source.

But as Open Source, I also (by mistake) mean a SourceForge projet
from which:
- an **unique** starting URL.
- dated version would be available,
- current official documentation (I didn't mean 
"documentationsssssssssss")
- access (via links) to to any other information (pragma, wiki, ...)


>> - which/where is the reference documentation
>>   (don't reply with some recursive answer!)
>
> Hmm, the problem is that the documentation is* notoriously outdated 
> and incomplete.
> But I think the "ConTeXt - the manual" is rather good though 
> incomplete.
> *

Yes I agree that "ConTeXt - the manual" is **the** currently reference
manual.
As such, it should probably be a more or less maintained an uptodate
(but not as other said "uptodate" context documents :-) version.


>> - how many euro poeple would pay for a reference
>>   ConTeXt book?
>
> You mean a printed version of the revised/enhanced "ConTeXt - a 
> manual"?

Yes!

I know that it's a big work to maintain such a documentation,
and probably (?), even Hans should eat some food (and sleep)
from time to time!
So if this work could be sell as a "ConTeXt book".

I think it could make a great difference for peoples who hesitate
to switch from LaTeX to ConTeXt : no book available for now!

This book could be reedited perhaps every 2 years, and
updates (and perhaps the book itself ?) could be made available
on the web.

I agree there is much less ConText user than LaTeX user, but:

- this book whould be the only ConTeXt book available, so it should
   be easy to sell,

- the fact that there is a ConTeXt book should make ConTeXt
   more attractive (as for a SourceForge projet)

-- Maurice

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Maurice Diamantini]

Le 23 juin 04, à 10:56, Patrick Gundlach a écrit :

>> Also, this could be the url for hight level FAQ
>> (this forum it not realy a hight level forum!)
>
> Go ahead and put it in the wiki! Its up to us all to put content in
> there.
> ...
> texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
> ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062

Not accessible!
Perhaps because I'm behind a firewall? I should try at home.


>> - how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?)
>
> It is open source, even free software. You can go ahead and change
> everything yourself. Pragma ADE has licenced this impressive and
> valuable macro package under the terms of the GNU Public License
> (GPL)! This is really great! (See mreadme.pdf for details.)

OK, It is open source
But about the documentation.
The easiest way to finf this file is by looking for

    mreadme.pdf pragma

in google!

-- Maurice

Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi Maurice,

>> texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
>> ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062
>
> Not accessible!
> Perhaps because I'm behind a firewall? I should try at home.

I just double checked that the services both run ok. If there is any
problem that could be on my side, please tell me.


> OK, It is open source
> But about the documentation.
> The easiest way to finf this file is by looking for
>
>     mreadme.pdf pragma
>
> in google!

I did 'locate mreadme'. That was quick.... I didn't even have to
download the file, it is shipped with ConTeXt... :-)

And for the rest of the documentation, goto
http://www.pragma-ade.com/overview.htm and you will find almost all
available documentation that is available in pdf.

Patrick
-- 
texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062

Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi,

> But as Open Source, I also (by mistake) mean a SourceForge projet
> from which:
> - an **unique** starting URL.

www.pragma-ade.com

> - dated version would be available,

http://www.pragma-ade.com/download.htm

> - current official documentation (I didn't mean
>   "documentationsssssssssss")

Well, ConTeXt is too complicated to have all aspects in one book. 

> - access (via links) to to any other information (pragma, wiki, ...)

http://www.pragma-ade.com/links.htm

>>> - which/where is the reference documentation
>>>   (don't reply with some recursive answer!)
>>
>> Hmm, the problem is that the documentation is* notoriously outdated
>> and incomplete.
>> But I think the "ConTeXt - the manual" is rather good though
>> incomplete.

> Yes I agree that "ConTeXt - the manual" is **the** currently reference
> manual.
> As such, it should probably be a more or less maintained an uptodate
> (but not as other said "uptodate" context documents :-) version.

I agree with you there. The documentation should be updated a bit and
put togehter. The uptodate manuals should go into different manuals
and vanish, since they are not uptodate anymore (perhaps they are
uptodate, but the date is behind). 


[...]

Talking about a sourceforge project. I guess that Hans would still
keep his ConTeXt distribution private (at PRAGMA ADE [btw. what is
the correct way to write your company's name?]) and not care very
much about any other SF project (as long as it does not get into his
way), but would be very reluctant giving support for the different
project. Once an tool is necessary for your everyday work, it is a
bad thing to give it out of your control.

If you need a SF project, make one (actually, there is one as I have
been told). But keep in mind that you should follow the license
restrictions in mreadme.pdf *and* you have to do all by yourself,
since most people here (I guess) are happy the way it is now.


Patrick
-- 
texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Holger Schöner]

Hello,

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
> >> >> [starting ConTeXt wiki at] http://members.ping.de:8062/
> >> What kind of example documents do you think of? I guess that you know
> >> that the magazines on the main ConTeXt site have their source code
> >> included?
> > I was thinking of all kinds of day-to-day documents, like the letter
> > template I mentioned. I could not find one according to DIN-standards, so I
> > did some trial-and-error experiments and created my own. 
> 
> What were the difficulties you ran into?

One problem was on how to create a header with a different height for just 
one page for a letter template ... I needed some trickery (I don't recall it 
exactly, now) to make it work, and tried many things on the way. Another was 
the anchoring of layers, although for that I found some very helpful 
documentation (thanks, Hans, for the "Details"). And, as I'm no wizard in 
TeX, I had some problems with redefining in macros; I still do not know, 
whether these work for all cases now.

> > Arguments for a collection could be:
> >
> > 1) Perhaps a comprehensive and classified collection of sample documents
> >    could spare others such time consuming trials.
> 
> a) it is impossible to have a comprehensive collection of documents.
> There are too many faces ConTeXt has.

Okay, but it would be nice to have a starting point, instead of starting all 
projects from scratch. Didn't anybody write a letter for window-envelopes 
yet?

> b) It is hard to classify the documents. Two possibilities:
> 
>   1)   layout trickery
>        macro hacking
>        itemize weirdness
>        crazy table fun
> 
> or
> 
>   2)   letters
>        articles
>        poems
>        magazines/newspaper
> 
> Any other? Which one makes sense?

You are right. But from my perspective, the latter would make more sense. At 
least, I thought about such a collection being useful when I start a new 
project (e.g. a letter ...). Then I could look up, whether there is anything 
I can build on.

For the trickery and stuff, there is the documentation (okay, these are not 
editable by everyone), and one could build a second hierarchy in the Wiki 
which contains simply links to helpful trickery in the other parts ...

-- 
Holger F. Schoener	TU Berlin; Dept. IV: EE and Computer Science
hfsch@cs.tu-berlin.de	http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~hfsch/
Rooms FR2525		Tel: +49-30-314-73115, Fax: -73121
Office FR 2-1		Franklinstr. 28/29, D-10587 Berlin, Germany

Re: SF project and docs (was: ConTeXt-Wiki)

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 23.06.2004 um 17:09 schrieb Patrick Gundlach:
> Talking about a sourceforge project. I guess that Hans would still
> keep his ConTeXt distribution private (at PRAGMA ADE [btw. what is
> the correct way to write your company's name?]) and not care very
> much about any other SF project (as long as it does not get into his
> way), but would be very reluctant giving support for the different
> project. Once an tool is necessary for your everyday work, it is a
> bad thing to give it out of your control.

And don't forget all the problems of SF - slow, overcrowded servers etc.
It would be very unconvenient for Hans - and as we know he has enough 
work.

And, Maurice, remember: Is there any complete LaTeX manual?
No, there isn't - there are lots of books on different levels,
most of them keep errors or describe old or obsolete packages or
techniques.
And every package has its own docs that you should read - some
are books itself (e.g. komascript).

So there's a lot more in the "basic" ConTeXt manual than in most
LaTeX books! Sure, it could always be more & better...
I agree that the whole plethora of single docs isn't really
overviewable. But otherwise they're a nice demonstration of
ConTeXt's capabilities - and I guess Hans meant them to be.


Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Maurice Diamantini]

Le 23 juin 04, à 16:54, Patrick Gundlach a écrit :

> Hi Maurice,
>
>>> texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
>>> ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062
>>
>> Not accessible!
>> Perhaps because I'm behind a firewall? I should try at home.
>
> I just double checked that the services both run ok. If there is any
> problem that could be on my side, please tell me.

It does work from home,
So I cried to our system administaters, and now it does work
at work too :-)

Thank you very much.


>> OK, It is open source
>> But about the documentation.
>> The easiest way to finf this file is by looking for
>>
>>     mreadme.pdf pragma
>>
>> in google!
>
> I did 'locate mreadme'.

Yes, but I think the top 10 documents should
directly be accessible from the reference url.
and mreadme.pdf is one of these files
*before* installing context !

Re: SF project and docs (was: ConTeXt-Wiki)

[Maurice Diamantini]

Le 23 juin 04, à 18:59, Henning Hraban Ramm a écrit :


> And, Maurice, remember: Is there any complete LaTeX manual?
> No, there isn't - there are lots of books on different levels,
> most of them keep errors or describe old or obsolete packages or
> techniques.

Yes, there is some reference books
   LateX from Lamport
   A guide to Latex 2e
   ...
which all are **suffisant** to do complete scientific documents
- mathematiques (not mathxml, which has never be done for beeing 
written by hand!)
- biblio (m-bib)

The latex reference book is very small because it does't describe
any extension.
A ConTeXt reference book would be much like an uptodate
cont-eni.pdf manual. It would be comparable to the couple
"LaTeX Lamport + Latex Compagnon"


For me, some of the top documentations are :
    gettingStartWithContext
    LaTeXtoContext.pdf
    refcontextbook (alias cont-eni for the 8.3 system)
    metafun-s.pdf
    the m-bib  module and its doc
    the m-nath module and its doc
    up-004.p.pdf for table

But the reference cont-eni.pdf doesn't talk about math nor biblio.
Also there is several means to do tables, and it seams
that the two main context reference documents (gettingStart and
cont-eni.pdf) doesn't talk about the same table system.
Morever, neither of them talk about the last most supported
table system which seams to be enattab.pdf!!


> And every latex package has its own docs that you should read - some
> are books itself (e.g. komascript).
Doen't know about it, doen't need it, so I'm glab it is not in
the latex manuals :-)

> So there's a lot more in the "basic" ConTeXt manual than in most
> LaTeX books! Sure, it could always be more & better...
> I agree that the whole plethora of single docs isn't really
> overviewable. But otherwise they're a nice demonstration of
> ConTeXt's capabilities - and I guess Hans meant them to be.

It's a good thing that additive fonctionnalities, or full reference
of specialised features are not included in the standard manual,
I've never asked that the metafun book should be include in
the contextbook!

I think the simplest thing to do is a to make a lite introduction
documentation for use as a guide about which docs should be seen
as reference (which table to use, how to to biblio, ...)

Also, I think yet that a litly modified version of the
contextbook.pdf, by adding the new table, nath and biblio
module, should be sufficiant for most peoples.

A year ago, I thought that context could become the
real "latex3" project,
But now, I think that the context is missing for some
universities support (latex developpers, user documentation
for students, ...).
An uptodate documentation could help!

Cordialement,

-- Maurice

Re: docs

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 24.06.2004 um 16:13 schrieb Maurice Diamantini:
> A ConTeXt reference book would be much like an uptodate
> cont-eni.pdf manual. It would be comparable to the couple
> "LaTeX Lamport + Latex Compagnon"

Would be, should be, yes.

> But the reference cont-eni.pdf doesn't talk about math nor biblio.

Both are extensions from my point of view.

Even if math is "typical" for TeX, it's not typical for ConTeXt.

I think the typical university user is content with LaTeX.
ConTeXt is for those who like to design their own layout.

I seldom need any formula - TeX/ConTeXt is for me simply the
system of choice for big documents (books), presentations and
everything scriptable.
(For most of my work I use InDesign.)

> Also there is several means to do tables, and it seams
> that the two main context reference documents (gettingStart and
> cont-eni.pdf) doesn't talk about the same table system.
> Morever, neither of them talk about the last most supported
> table system which seams to be enattab.pdf!!

Yes, that's confusing.
I made an overview in my german docs, will transfer it to the Wiki soon.

>> And every latex package has its own docs that you should read - some
>> are books itself (e.g. komascript).
> Doen't know about it, doen't need it, so I'm glab it is not in
> the latex manuals :-)

The KOMA classes are an enhanced replacement for the standard LaTeX 
classes
my Markus Kohm. If you use LaTeX it's a pity if you don't know them!

> I think the simplest thing to do is a to make a lite introduction
> documentation for use as a guide about which docs should be seen
> as reference (which table to use, how to to biblio, ...)

Again, I don't think that bibliographies are basic.
But I'm no scientific user.


Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/

Re: docs

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 21:12:34 +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm <hraban@fiee.net> 
wrote:

> Again, I don't think that bibliographies are basic.
> But I'm no scientific user.

Actually, I think bibliographies are VERY basic. I edit an academic 
journal; each article has to have its own bib and m-bib can only be used 
once per document, and the (old) version I use has a few bugs (will try 
the latest version after some mission-critical stuff is out; I've 
(amateurishly) hacked the old version so that it at least does what I want 
for now).

But ConTeXt really needs a full-fledged bibliography solution as part of 
the basic package I think.

Question: in what context (no pun intended) do you use InDesign? Where is 
ConTeXt not so applicable?

Best
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: docs

[William D. Neumann]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

> Even if math is "typical" for TeX, it's not typical for ConTeXt.
>
> I think the typical university user is content with LaTeX.
> ConTeXt is for those who like to design their own layout.

And that's, unfortunately, a poor view to take.  I would love to use
ConTeXt for more of my academic writing, as it makes a lot of tasks much
easier, not just layout and design.  Unfortunately, it's inability to play
like LaTeX when it comes to even such basic things as footnotes, means
that I have to constantly turn back to LaTeX whenever I need to write
something for work or school.

> Again, I don't think that bibliographies are basic.
> But I'm no scientific user.

And for those of us who are, bibliographies are *crucial* and should be
considered a basic part of any tpesetting program that wants to be taken
seriously.  And while m-bib is usually sufficient, it too has enough
quirks that it's just not worth the time to even bother if you want to
submit a paper that has a special format requirement for the
bibliographies.

William D. Neumann

---

"Well I could be a genius, if I just put my mind to it.
And I...I could do anything, if only I could get 'round to it.
Oh we were brought up on the space-race, now they expect you to clean toilets.
When you've seen how big the world is, how can you make do with this?
If you want me, I'll be sleeping in - sleeping in throughout these glory days."

	-- Jarvis Cocker

Think of XML as Lisp for COBOL programmers.

	-- Tony-A (some guy on /.)

Re: docs

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 24.06.2004 um 21:34 schrieb Idris Samawi Hamid:
> Question: in what context (no pun intended) do you use InDesign? Where 
> is ConTeXt not so applicable?

My main work (at home) is a bimonthly magazine ("unitarische blätter"
for german unitarian religious fellowship); I know Hans (and perhaps
some others) could do it with ConTeXt, but not me; I prefer to work
"visible" if I use a lot of pictures and a non-scriptable layout.

Further I use it as text processor for letters etc., but therefore
I ever wanted to make a ConTeXt environment.

At work (a daily newspaper) we use InDesign for all the ads - that is,
I work there as a programmer and sysadmin, so I don't really work with
InDesign but only test its PostScript code or PDFs. (Today I recognized
that it always writes OPI comments for TIFFs and never for EPS,
independent from your output options; further it can't separate duplex
EPS from PhotoShop, only DCS...)

Sorry for being OT.

At work I use ConTeXt for presentations (e.g. Acrobat tutorial) and
flowcharts. At home for books, my address book, my ConTeXt tutorial
and some small stuff.


Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/

Re: docs

[Taco Hoekwater]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 13:34:20 -0600
Idris Samawi Hamid <ishamid@colostate.edu> wrote:

> Actually, I think bibliographies are VERY basic. I edit an academic 
> journal; each article has to have its own bib and m-bib can only be used 
> once per document, and the (old) version I use has a few bugs (will try 
> the latest version after some mission-critical stuff is out; I've 
> (amateurishly) hacked the old version so that it at least does what I want 
> for now).

Hello Idris,

If you tell me what you want from the bib package, chances are that it
will be added (if you don't, it won't be). 

Generally, without feature requests there will never be any new features,
and without bug reports bugs will never get fixed. So: if anybody has 
requests for the bib package, let me know.

Greetings, Taco

Hans political ConTeXt orientation request!

[Maurice Diamantini]

Bonjour à tous,

    I'm sorry for my bad english, I hope there is not to
    much semantical mistakes.

About math, biblio and context2html missing features
mentionned in previous discussion,
some poeples talk about standard document writing, I dont't
think every body need to write chimical formula, but
there is a powerfull ConTeXt extension to do it,
so it's not a valid argument to not
accept a math package in the ConTeXt distribution.

The raison I tried ConTeXt is to test it for
a full replacement for LaTeX.

I know that ConTeXt is not finished, and some fonctionnalties
could be add or corrected later.

I also  know that such a task is not feasable by only one
person (even by Hans :-)


So the only way to make this project realisable is to
get (stole :-) guru from LaTeX community to ConTeXt.
And nobody will contribute in a project that it hasn't
fully adopted!

For this, one need:
1 - a clear polilical objective for context,
2 - the way (or path, or mean?) adopted for reaching it,
3 - the adapted  developpement model,
4 - some (elastical) roadmap.

As I said, I see ConTeXt as a (potencial) full replacement
for LaTeX. I've writen a technical slide presentation
and an article like document (20 pages) for testing that.
I succeded (with some work)
But for now, I can't encourage a student for begining with
ConTeXt instead of LaTeX.

On the other side, I (one) can't use both ConTeXt **and**
LaTeX for doing things: I have to choose only one.


So the answer to these previous questions will very important
for the choice.


Cordialement,
-- Maurice Diamantini   http://www.ensta.fr/~diam

Re: docs

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 08:21:03 +0200, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> 
wrote:

> Hello Idris,
>
> If you tell me what you want from the bib package, chances are that it
> will be added (if you don't, it won't be).

Thnx, Taco, u r right of course; I am just waiting till I can test the 
latest version of m-bib before I submit a report (since u may have already 
fixed things). After I get some mission-critical stuff to the printer I'll 
be in a better position to do that.

Best
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: Hans political ConTeXt orientation request!

[Hans Hagen]

Maurice Diamantini wrote:

> About math, biblio and context2html missing features
> mentionned in previous discussion,
> some poeples talk about standard document writing, I dont't
> think every body need to write chimical formula, but
> there is a powerfull ConTeXt extension to do it,
> so it's not a valid argument to not
> accept a math package in the ConTeXt distribution.

most of the math that one keys in, is rather bare tex based; macro 
packages may (and do) provide additional features, especially in the 
area of building matrices, breaking formulas and additional symbols

in context the built in support for math is limited to

- symbols
- numbering
- spacing

(and for those who want that, math typesetting on grids). Everything 
else math related is collected in modules:

- math: math module, nath module, mathml module
- physics: units module
- chemistry: ppchtex

the two math modules are maintaind by taco and giusseppe; much of the 
original math module is now distributed over kernel modules and 
m-newmat.tex (but i still need to finish that one); a good alternative 
is the nath module, but since nath is not 'generic' giusseppe had to 
patch some things; when he's satisfied, i'll take a look at his code and 
see what needs to move to the kernel or needs specific support; but for 
most purposes things are already workable

the other 'often asked' functionality concerns bibliographies; there is 
a module by taceo for this; in the future (depending on the developments 
in the bibtex arena) i will look into multilingual bibtex and xml as input

> The raison I tried ConTeXt is to test it for
> a full replacement for LaTeX.
>
> I know that ConTeXt is not finished, and some fonctionnalties
> could be add or corrected later.

hm, most of it is quite finished, although i keep adding functionallity 
to keep up with what high end publishing demands -) 

with regards to 'corrected later': i try to maintain downward 
compatibility (or at least repair it when broken); of course i keep 
improving the overal performance and quality of the output

> I also  know that such a task is not feasable by only one
> person (even by Hans :-)
>
as long as one builds on top of the system and support modules 
(syst-*.tex and supp-*.tex) or uses high level constructs, one can write 
extensions -)

>
> So the only way to make this project realisable is to
> get (stole :-) guru from LaTeX community to ConTeXt.

there are a few context users on this list who know latex quite well -)

> And nobody will contribute in a project that it hasn't
> fully adopted!

hm, keep in mind that in the beginning of tex there  could be some 
influence on that (read: amstex and latex were pushed by user groups in 
favor of for instance  lamstex,  inrstex, etc) ;

concerning contribution: context itself is not that unfinished;  also, 
there *are* contributions, take for instance the area of fonts and 
languages

> For this, one need:
> 1 - a clear polilical objective for context,

hm, i'm not going to promise context-2 (like latex-3), but here are a 
few things on my agenda:

-  some clean up of code and maybe even rewrite of parts of the code 
(esp lists and section handling)
-  converting the low level dutch into english (can be done 
automatically -i  did that some years ago-) but i need a moment of 
'silence' for that
-  support for xsl-fo (i occasionally work on that, when i can motivate 
myself); much of it is finished
-  extending the xml interface definition (with patrick); somehow 
connect that with documentation; create a reverse path, i.e. define 
layouts etc in xml
-  more extensive support for multi media
-  more interfaces as part of the example framework (different thread, 
but of interest to web publishing)
-  (some fun projects)
-  some educational specific things

- reorganizing my documentation tree and putting some source code on line
- extending/updating manuals (i wanted to dedicate time to that earlier 
this year, but adapting to changes in tds / web2c took quite some time)

(ok, i also have todo some projects in order to survive)

(and ... i also want to look into extending tex and metapost)

> 2 - the way (or path, or mean?) adopted for reaching it,
> 3 - the adapted  developpement model,
> 4 - some (elastical) roadmap.

driven by demand

> As I said, I see ConTeXt as a (potencial) full replacement
> for LaTeX. I've writen a technical slide presentation
> and an article like document (20 pages) for testing that.
> I succeded (with some work)
> But for now, I can't encourage a student for begining with
> ConTeXt instead of LaTeX.
>
> On the other side, I (one) can't use both ConTeXt **and**
> LaTeX for doing things: I have to choose only one.

some do -)

Hans

Re: docs

[Hans Hagen]

William D. Neumann wrote:

>And that's, unfortunately, a poor view to take.  I would love to use
>ConTeXt for more of my academic writing, as it makes a lot of tasks much
>easier, not just layout and design.  Unfortunately, it's inability to play
>like LaTeX when it comes to even such basic things as footnotes, mean
>
eh .. what's wrong with the footnotes?

Hans

Re: docs

[William D. Neumann]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Hans Hagen wrote:

> William D. Neumann wrote:
>
> >And that's, unfortunately, a poor view to take.  I would love to use
> >ConTeXt for more of my academic writing, as it makes a lot of tasks much
> >easier, not just layout and design.  Unfortunately, it's inability to play
> >like LaTeX when it comes to even such basic things as footnotes, mean
> >
> eh .. what's wrong with the footnotes?

Set a page in two column with footnotes set to span just the column where
the mark is placed (I forget the full commands to do this... I could look
them up, but you probably know what they are...).  Now, place a footnote.

In LaTeX, you get something that looks like:

text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text[1]   text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
------------------     text text text text
[1] footnote foot      text text text text
footnote footnote      text text text text
footnote footnote      text text text text



In ConTeXt you get something like:

text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text[1]   text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
text text text text    text text text text
------------------
[1] footnote foot
footnote footnote
footnote footnote

That is, the other column doesn't flow around the footnote in the other
column, wasting space and looking ugly.  I asked at least twice on this
list how to fix this and received no fixes.  If you have a fix, I would
be *very* pleased to hear about it...

William D. Neumann

---

"Well I could be a genius, if I just put my mind to it.
And I...I could do anything, if only I could get 'round to it.
Oh we were brought up on the space-race, now they expect you to clean toilets.
When you've seen how big the world is, how can you make do with this?
If you want me, I'll be sleeping in - sleeping in throughout these glory days."

	-- Jarvis Cocker

Think of XML as Lisp for COBOL programmers.

	-- Tony-A (some guy on /.)

Re: docs

[Hans Hagen]

William D. Neumann wrote:

> In LaTeX, you get something that looks like:
>
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text[1]   text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>------------------     text text text text
>[1] footnote foot      text text text text
>footnote footnote      text text text text
>footnote footnote      text text text text
>
>
>
>In ConTeXt you get something like:
>
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text[1]   text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>text text text text    text text text text
>------------------
>[1] footnote foot
>footnote footnote
>footnote footnote
>
>That is, the other column doesn't flow around the footnote in the other
>column, wasting space and looking ugly.  I asked at least twice on this
>list how to fix this and received no fixes.  If you have a fix, I would
>be *very* pleased to hear about it...
>  
>
there is \setupfootnotes[location=columns] but i just found out that 
that is broken (i have to adapt that to the new multiple footnotes 
mechanism); will do that

btw, in that case footnotes are placed in the last column  (the reason 
why footnotes by default end up on the page is that there can be mixed 
multi-single column usage

Hans

Re: Hans political ConTeXt orientation request!

[Maurice Diamantini dom]

Le 25 juin 04, à 18:03, Hans Hagen a écrit :

> Maurice Diamantini wrote:
>
>> About math, biblio and context2html missing features
>> mentionned in previous discussion,

...
in context the built in support for math is limited to
> - symbols
> - numbering
> - spacing
>
> (and for those who want that, math typesetting on grids). Everything 
> else math related is collected in modules:
>
> - math: math module, nath module, mathml module
> - physics: units module
> - chemistry: ppchtex
>
> the two math modules are maintaind by taco and giusseppe; much of the 
> original math module is now distributed over kernel modules and 
> m-newmat.tex (but i still need to finish that one); a good alternative 
> is the nath module, but since nath is not 'generic' giusseppe had to 
> patch some things; when he's satisfied, i'll take a look at his code 
> and see what needs to move to the kernel or needs specific support;

Great news, thanks'you!

> but for most purposes things are already workable
I'have used it for my document (and include it as part of it)

What is missing in t-nath is perhaps some document exemple about what
is available and what is not (yet).
The same is between standard ams-latex and t-amsl in context
These exemples could be used as regression tests by taco and giusseppe
and as documentation for the users.


> the other 'often asked' functionality concerns bibliographies; there 
> is a module by taceo for this; in the future (depending on the 
> developments in the bibtex arena) i will look into multilingual bibtex 
> and xml as input

Great new too;
Is the any hope m-bib will be includes some day into the standard 
context distribution?

>> I also  know that such a task is not feasable by only one
>> person (even by Hans :-)
> as long as one builds on top of the system and support modules 
> (syst-*.tex and supp-*.tex) or uses high level constructs, one can 
> write extensions -)

About extension, I'd like some way to create new context command with 
the possibility
to pass "intelligent" parametres system:
but see my separate post "High level user macro (howto?)"


>> So the only way to make this project realisable is to
>> get (stole :-) guru from LaTeX community to ConTeXt.
>
> there are a few context users on this list who know latex quite well -)

The request was not for a Context user who know LaTeX very well,
but for some LaTeX contributor to switch from LaTeX to ConTeXt :-)
I think to tex4ht, lilypond contributor, ...
(I havn't been able to find the beta tex4ht recently mentionned here)

>> And nobody will contribute in a project that it hasn't
>> fully adopted!
>
> hm, keep in mind that in the beginning of tex there  could be some 
> influence on that (read: amstex and latex were pushed by user groups 
> in favor of for instance  lamstex,  inrstex, etc) ;

You are right: and I hope ConTeXt will becomme the standard (:-)

>> For this, one need:
>> 1 - a clear polilical objective for context,
>
> hm, i'm not going to promise context-2 (like latex-3), but here are a 
> few things on my agenda:
>
> -  some clean up of code and maybe even rewrite of parts of the code 
> (esp lists and
>    section  handling)
> -  converting the low level dutch into english (can be done 
> automatically -i  did that
>    some years ago-) but i need a moment of 'silence' for that

I heard from some poeple (potencial contributors) for which this was a 
great default for
context (internal documentation)

> -  support for xsl-fo (i occasionally work on that, when i can 
> motivate myself); much of it
>    is finished

does it means that there will be some user way to convert context file 
to html?

> -  extending the xml interface definition (with patrick); somehow 
> connect that with documentation;
>    create a reverse path, i.e. define layouts etc in xml

Great new for internal documentation (I suppose this will be the mean 
to complete
the http://members.ping.de:8061/ reference manual ?

> -  more extensive support for multi media

ConTeXt is probaly already the (one of the?) best tool for that (but 
for html :-)

> -  more interfaces as part of the example framework (different thread, 
> but of interest
>    to web publishing)
> -  (some fun projects)
> -  some educational specific things
>
> - reorganizing my documentation tree and putting some source code on 
> line

> - extending/updating manuals (i wanted to dedicate time to that 
> earlier this year, but
>   adapting to changes in tds / web2c took quite some time)

The Context book would be the most important thing to do, I think.
And it is independant from the online reference commands manual.
It could be sold, so contribute for you to eat!

> (ok, i also have todo some projects in order to survive)

Would it be not possible:
- to ask some financial support for other TeX user groups,
- ask for some "call for contribution" from indivual ConTeXt
   users, or a subscription to some online bulletin?



> (and ... i also want to look into extending tex and metapost)
>
>> 2 - the way (or path, or mean?) adopted for reaching it,
>> 3 - the adapted  developpement model,
>> 4 - some (elastical) roadmap.
>
> driven by demand
>
>> As I said, I see ConTeXt as a (potencial) full replacement
>> for LaTeX. I've writen a technical slide presentation
>> and an article like document (20 pages) for testing that.
>> I succeded (with some work)
>> But for now, I can't encourage a student for begining with
>> ConTeXt instead of LaTeX.

I keep thinking that the LaTeX community should be the main target for a
raising ConTeXt community; because LaTeX community already is convainced
by the progamming document model against the wiziwig document model.

But I'm glad to see that you have great projet for ConTeXt!
Thank you very much!

-- Maurice

High level user macro (howto?)

[Maurice Diamantini dom]

Bonjour à tous,

One thing is missing in context (or not documented in reference manual?)
is a standard and easy way to build arbitrary parametrised high level 
macros.

For exemple, instead of
    \def\myCommand#9{...}
That I should call by
    \myCommand{param1}{param2}{...} {param9}

Id'like too keep default value for most of the parameters but param7
and write something like:

    \myCommand[param7=value7]{body}

In LaTeX, there is a package keyval for doing this
And context use this everywere, but I haven't seen anything for
a user beeing able to do this.

This is the base for building arbitrary complex user commands with
some defauld behavior, and then, if this personal macro is usefull
enough, building some user contribution library.

As a true exemple, see a latex package I've written some years
ago for drawing uml diagramms whith LaTeX command (using PsTricks).
This file is available at
   http://www.ensta.fr/~diam/latex/pst-uml/pst-uml-981218-09h41.tar.gz
(should now be available on CTAN too)
See documents for the samples (in french but the samples are in LaTeX 
and
drawing are in "picture" !)

One of the first exemple I'd like is some command to put some little
table as caractere in a line (see that as some personalised box):

   start of line
   $-$\myStack[border=1ex,baseline=0.5]{
       aaa & bbb \\
       aaa & bbb \\
       aaa & bbb
   }$-$
   end of line

Or a little command to draw some picture, with default but modifiable
parameters:

   $-$\myzigzag[dir=down,linewith=1pt,color=red,with=3\em]$-$

Using Metafun.


Cordialement,

-- Maurice

Re: docs

[Hans Hagen]

William D. Neumann wrote:

>That is, the other column doesn't flow around the footnote in the other
>column, wasting space and looking ugly.  I asked at least twice on this
>list how to fix this and received no fixes.  If you have a fix, I would
>be *very* pleased to hear about it...
>  
>
i uploaded a new beta, which has column footnotes corrected (i had forgotten to adapt the mechanism to the new multiple notes mechanism); 

a also added the option to put notes in the first column: 

\setupfootnotes[location=firstcolumn|lastcolumn] % columns == lastcolumn 

Hans 



-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Extending metapost

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi Hans, group,


I saw this passing by in another thread, and since I am myself currently working
on a C port of metapost:

> (and ... i also want to look into extending tex and metapost)

What kind of extensions to metapost do you (or anyone else) have in mind?

Progress update: 

Work on the C port of MP is coming along nicely. Work progress is fairly slow 
because I have to make change quite a lot of small changes to the code.
I expect to have a 'working' test executable in about 3 or 4 weeks.

libMP will have (at least) the following changes wrt. the Web source code:

- C strings instead of a string pool ( and no pool file).
- A "struct METAPOST" instance that gets moved around, instead of global variables
  (libMP will be thread-safe)
- A namespace for all externally visible procedures and enums (prefix 'mp')
- mp_initialize() and mp_finish() calls to allow clean restarts.
- All file I/O will be configurable (through callbacks)
- PostScript output will be isolated from the other output. (to allow other
  output backends in the future).




-- 
groeten,

Taco

Re: High level user macro (howto?)

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Saturday, June 26, 2004 Maurice Diamantini dom wrote:

> Bonjour à tous,

> One thing is missing in context (or not documented in reference manual?)
> is a standard and easy way to build arbitrary parametrised high level
> macros.

> For exemple, instead of
>     \def\myCommand#9{...}
> That I should call by
>     \myCommand{param1}{param2}{...} {param9}

> Id'like too keep default value for most of the parameters but param7
> and write something like:

>     \myCommand[param7=value7]{body}

It is true, we need a "programming in ConTeXt" manual. It is
still possible to 'know' how to do things by looking at the way
things are done in ConTeXt itself. For example, in your case
you want something like this:

\def\myCommand[#1]#2{%
 \rawgetparameters[myCommand][param1=defaultvalue1,param2=defaultvalue2,#1]%
 do something with \csname myCommandparam1\endcsname and #2}


This is of course very draft, and can be highly tuned and done
multilingual, but that's much more complex.

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: High level user macro (howto?)

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi Maurice,

The 'key' to the keyval functionality in ConTeXt are two macros called
\getparameters and \processaction.

Here is a 'quickstart', assuming you want to define \myzigzag:

%
\unprotect % enable exclamations in macro names

\def\myzigzag#1[#2]{% 
  % the #1 makes sure we allow a space before the bracket
  %
  \getparameters[ZZ][Dir=,Linewidth=1pt,Color=Red,Width=3em,#2]
  %
  % Now you have a set of new macros that all start with ZZ. 
  % At least there are \ZZDir,\ZZLinewidth, \ZZColor and \ZZWidth
  % (these have default values) but possibly others as well, 
  % depending on user input.
  % 
  % Here's a usage example: 
  %
  \edef\mywidth{\ZZWidth}%
  %
  % If you want to use keyword values, then you also need 
  % to use \processaction.
  % 
  % Say you want "Dir" to be mandatory and that it 
  % accepts 4 directional keywords, as well as a direct 
  % angle specification.
  %
  % I've used all mixed case keywords, because otherwise
  % you might run into conflicts with the multilingual interface
  %
  \expandafter\processaction\expandafter[\ZZDir]
	[Down       =>\def\Dir{270},
	 Left       =>\def\Dir{180},
   	 Up         =>\def\Dir{90},
 	 Right      =>\def\Dir{0},
	 \s!default =>\errorDir, 
	 \s!unknown =>\checkDir{\ZZDir}]
  % 
  % \s!default may be triggered because \ZZDir's expansion is 
  % empty unless the user supplied something.
  %
  % The first argument to \processaction has to be expanded,
  % so you need the \expandafter's.q
}

% for completeness, here is an example definition of \checkDir and
% \errorDir:

\def\errorDir{%
   \def\Dir{0}% error recovery
   \message{Please supply "Dir" argument}%
}

\def\checkDir#1{%
  \doifnumberelse {#1}
                  {\def\Dir{#1}}
                  {\message{Invalid "Dir" argument! (#1)}}
}

\protect % end of definitions


On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 11:51:14 +0200, Maurice wrote:

> Bonjour à tous,
> 
> One thing is missing in context (or not documented in reference manual?)
> is a standard and easy way to build arbitrary parametrised high level 
> macros.
> 


-- 
groeten,

Taco

Re: High level user macro (howto?)

[Patrick Gundlach]

Bonjour Maurice,

> One thing is missing in context (or not documented in reference manual?)
> is a standard and easy way to build arbitrary parametrised high level
> macros.


what about:

\def\myCommand{\dosingleempty\doMyCommand}

\def\doMyCommand[#1]{%
  \getparameters[XYZ][#1]% define your own ``namespace''
  \getvalue{XYZtexti}
}
\starttext
\startlines
Hello \myCommand
\setvalue{XYZtexti}{World}
Hello \myCommand
Hello \myCommand[texti=Maurice]
\stoplines
\stoptext


Patrick
-- 
texshow-web:  http://members.ping.de:8061
ConTeXt wiki: http://members.ping.de:8062

Re: High level user macro (howto?)

[Hans Hagen]

Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

>
>It is true, we need a "programming in ConTeXt" manual. It is
>still possible to 'know' how to do things by looking at the way
>things are done in ConTeXt itself. For example, in your case
>you want something like this:
>
>\def\myCommand[#1]#2{%
> \rawgetparameters[myCommand][param1=defaultvalue1,param2=defaultvalue2,#1]%
> do something with \csname myCommandparam1\endcsname and #2}
>  
>
There is 

  \setvariables [yournamespace] [yourvar=yourval]

which operates independent of the language interface

  \getvariable{yournamespace}{yourvar} 

can be used to pick up a var

The most important issue here is that you need to use some unique prefix, preferable something MyPrefix (capital and verbose). 

Hans 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re[2]: High level user macro (howto?)

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Monday, June 28, 2004 Hans Hagen wrote:

> There is

>   \setvariables [yournamespace] [yourvar=yourval]

> which operates independent of the language interface

>   \getvariable{yournamespace}{yourvar} 

> can be used to pick up a var

What is the difference between setvariable and getparameters?

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: High level user macro (howto?)

[Hans Hagen]

Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

>What is the difference between setvariable and getparameters?
>  
>
the second one does interface translations 

Hans 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re[2]: High level user macro (howto?)

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Monday, June 28, 2004 Hans Hagen wrote:

> Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

>>What is the difference between setvariable and getparameters?
>>  
>>
> the second one does interface translations 

Sorry, I meant rawgetparameters

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: Re: High level user macro (howto?)

[Maurice Diamantini]

Le 28 juin 04, à 11:49, Patrick Gundlach a écrit :

>> One thing is missing in context (or not documented in reference 
>> manual?)
>> is a standard and easy way to build arbitrary parametrised high level
>> macros.

Thank to you(s) for your macros exemples,
I've now to build mu own sample in the next two
months, and I then will surely post news questions
before it is finished :-)

I like the fact one can have our own namespace.

ConTeXt is realy amazing : should be called LaTeX3
(as soon as the reference manual is finished ;-)

Amicalement,
-- Maurice

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Nagy Bence]

> > - how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?)
> 
> It is open source, even free software. You can go ahead and change
> everything yourself. Pragma ADE has licenced this impressive and
> valuable macro package under the terms of the GNU Public License
> (GPL)! This is really great! (See mreadme.pdf for details.)

The document mreadme.pdf contains just the text "in the spirit of the
GNU general public licence". Do you think the "spirit of GPL" is the GPL
itself?

Greetings,

Bence

Re: Re: ConTeXt-Wiki

[Tobias Burnus]

Hello,

Nagy Bence wrote:

>>>- how about ConTeXt future (why it is not open source?)
>>>      
>>>
>>It is open source, even free software. You can go ahead and change
>>everything yourself. Pragma ADE has licenced this impressive and
>>valuable macro package under the terms of the GNU Public License
>>(GPL)! This is really great! (See mreadme.pdf for details.)
>>    
>>
>The document mreadme.pdf contains just the text "in the spirit of the
>GNU general public licence". Do you think the "spirit of GPL" is the GPL
>itself?
>  
>
Well, it shouldn't matter that much. It is free software by definition 
of the Free Software Foundation. And "if ConTeXt is not free software by 
the license in mreadme.pdf, the following terms replace the licence for 
ConTeXt given in mreadme.pdf:" "This program is free software; you can 
redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General 
Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either 
version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.".
This is the content of Thomas Esser's docs/context/base/LICENSE.teTeX - 
and ,readme.pdf allows TeX distributions to do such a change.

Regards,

Tobias

Re: High level user macro (howto?)

[Peter Münster]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

> The 'key' to the keyval functionality in ConTeXt are two macros called
> \getparameters and \processaction.
> 
> Here is a 'quickstart', assuming you want to define \myzigzag:
> 
> [...]

Hello Taco,
thank you for your 'quickstart'!
I've just tried to apply \getparameters to the \Changes macro on the Wiki
(http://contextgarden.net/Changes). But there is a problem and any help
would be nice.

Here is the new macro:

\def\Changes#1[#2]{%
  \getparameters[CH][#2]% Auteur, Modif, Labels, Date
  \ifnum\RevC=0 \BigTitle \vskip0.5ex \Vfil \startChanges \fi
  \global\advance\RevC by 1 \VL \the\RevC \VL \CHDate \VL \CHModif \VL
  XXX%\In[\CHLabels,\relax] % does not work, but not so important for now
  \VL \CHAuteur \VL\AR\HL}

And later on, the usage of the macro:

\Changes[Date=1/2/2004,Modif=First version,Auteur=Peter]
\Changes[Date=3/4/2004,Modif=Some modifications,Lables={sec:S1,sec:S2},
  Auteur=Peter Münster]
\Changes[Date=5/6/2004,Modif=Some other modifications,Lables={sec:S2},
  Auteur=Peter]

The problem:
the parameter values are not updated in the two last calls of the macro.

Regards, Peter

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Re: High level user macro (howto?)

[Peter Münster]

Pardon, I forgot the whole tex-file:

\useregime[il1]
\enableregime[il1]
\useencoding[ffr]
\definehspace[fr][:][.16667em]
\definehspace[fr][;][.16667em]
\definehspace[fr][!][.16667em]
\definehspace[fr][?][.16667em]
\mainlanguage[fr]
\newdimen\BigWidth \BigWidth=18cm
\setupscreens[screen=0.85]
\setupcolors[state=start]
\setupheadertexts[Rév.: \the\RevC]
\def\Vfil{\vskip0pt plus3fil\relax}
\def\In[#1,#2]{\ifx#1\empty\else\in[#1]\fi\if\relax#2\else, \In[#2]\fi}
\def\BigTitle{\centerline{\framed[width=\BigWidth,offset=2mm,
      background=screen]{\bfb\setupinterlinespace\cbox{Title}}}}

\def\startChanges{\hbox to \hsize\bgroup\hss\SetTableToWidth{\BigWidth}%
  \starttable[s1 | c | c | p(95mm) | p(17mm) | p(37mm) |]
  \HL\BL[5]\AR\VL Rév.\VL Date\VL Origine de la mise à jour\VL§ modifié\VL
  Auteur\VL\AR\HL}
\def\stopChanges{\stoptable\hss\egroup}\newcount\RevC
\def\Changes#1[#2]{%
  \getparameters[CH][#2]% Auteur, Modif, Labels, Date
  \ifnum\RevC=0 \BigTitle \vskip0.5ex \Vfil \startChanges \fi
  \global\advance\RevC by 1 \VL \the\RevC \VL \CHDate \VL \CHModif \VL
  XXX%\In[\CHLabels,\relax] % does not work, but not so important for now
  \VL \CHAuteur \VL\AR\HL}
\def\Destinataires#1{\stopChanges\Vfil
  \def\temp{#1}\ifx\temp\empty\else\noindenting Destinataires:\crlf#1\blank\fi
\centerline{\SetTableToWidth{\BigWidth}%
\bf\starttable[| c | c | c |]
\HL\BL[3]\AR\VL Approbateur\VL Date\VL Visa\VL\AR\HL
\VL\vbox to 2cm{}\VL\VL\VL\AR\HL
\stoptable}\par\page\completecontent}

\starttext
\Changes[Date=1/2/2004,Modif=First version,Auteur=Peter]
\Changes[Date=3/4/2004,Modif=Some modifications,Lables={sec:S1,sec:S2},
  Auteur=Peter Münster]
\Changes[Date=5/6/2004,Modif=Some other modifications,Lables={sec:S2},
  Auteur=Peter]
%
\Destinataires{Peter, Olivier}

\section[sec:S1]{A section}
some text
\subsection{Bla}
\subsection{Bla}

\section[sec:S2]{Another section}
some text
\stoptext

Cheers, Peter

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Re: High level user macro (howto?)

[Vit Zyka]

> \useregime[il1]
> \enableregime[il1]
> \useencoding[ffr]
> \definehspace[fr][:][.16667em]
> \definehspace[fr][;][.16667em]
> \definehspace[fr][!][.16667em]
> \definehspace[fr][?][.16667em]
> \mainlanguage[fr]
> \newdimen\BigWidth \BigWidth=18cm
> \setupscreens[screen=0.85]
> \setupcolors[state=start]
> \setupheadertexts[Rév.: \the\RevC]
> \def\Vfil{\vskip0pt plus3fil\relax}
> \def\In[#1,#2]{\ifx#1\empty\else\in[#1]\fi\if\relax#2\else, \In[#2]\fi}
> \def\BigTitle{\centerline{\framed[width=\BigWidth,offset=2mm,
>       background=screen]{\bfb\setupinterlinespace\cbox{Title}}}}
> 
> \def\startChanges{\hbox to \hsize\bgroup\hss\SetTableToWidth{\BigWidth}%
>   \starttable[s1 | c | c | p(95mm) | p(17mm) | p(37mm) |]
>   \HL\BL[5]\AR\VL Rév.\VL Date\VL Origine de la mise à jour\VL§ modifié\VL
>   Auteur\VL\AR\HL}
> \def\stopChanges{\stoptable\hss\egroup}\newcount\RevC
> \def\Changes#1[#2]{%
>   \getparameters[CH][#2]% Auteur, Modif, Labels, Date
>   \ifnum\RevC=0 \BigTitle \vskip0.5ex \Vfil \startChanges \fi
>   \global\advance\RevC by 1 \VL \the\RevC \VL \CHDate \VL \CHModif \VL
>   XXX%\In[\CHLabels,\relax] % does not work, but not so important for now
>   \VL \CHAuteur \VL\AR\HL}
> \def\Destinataires#1{\stopChanges\Vfil
>   \def\temp{#1}\ifx\temp\empty\else\noindenting Destinataires:\crlf#1\blank\fi
> \centerline{\SetTableToWidth{\BigWidth}%
> \bf\starttable[| c | c | c |]
> \HL\BL[3]\AR\VL Approbateur\VL Date\VL Visa\VL\AR\HL
> \VL\vbox to 2cm{}\VL\VL\VL\AR\HL
> \stoptable}\par\page\completecontent}
> 
> \starttext
> \Changes[Date=1/2/2004,Modif=First version,Auteur=Peter]
> \Changes[Date=3/4/2004,Modif=Some modifications,Lables={sec:S1,sec:S2},
>   Auteur=Peter Münster]
> \Changes[Date=5/6/2004,Modif=Some other modifications,Lables={sec:S2},
>   Auteur=Peter]
> %
> \Destinataires{Peter, Olivier}
> 
> \section[sec:S1]{A section}
> some text
> \subsection{Bla}
> \subsection{Bla}
> 
> \section[sec:S2]{Another section}
> some text
> \stoptext
> 
> Cheers, Peter

 > The problem:
 > the parameter values are not updated in the two last calls of the
 > macro.

In the second and later call of \Changes you are in the table (\halign 
or \hbox?, it depends on table mechanism) cell. In both cases you are 
inside a group. Since \getparameters expands to local assignments, the 
contents is forgotten outside this cell.

Try \getgparameters

Vit Zyka

Re: High level user macro (howto?)

[Peter Münster]

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004, Vit Zyka wrote:

> >   \getparameters[CH][#2]% Auteur, Modif, Labels, Date
> 
> Try \getgparameters

Thanks!!  What an easy fix, just ONE letter :-)
Peter

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Re: Extending metapost

[John Culleton]

On Monday 28 June 2004 04:40, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Hi Hans, group,
>
>
> I saw this passing by in another thread, and since I am myself currently
> working
>
> on a C port of metapost:
> > (and ... i also want to look into extending tex and metapost)
>
> What kind of extensions to metapost do you (or anyone else) have in mind?
>
> Progress update:
>
> Work on the C port of MP is coming along nicely. Work progress is fairly
> slow because I have to make change quite a lot of small changes to the
> code. I expect to have a 'working' test executable in about 3 or 4 weeks.
>
> libMP will have (at least) the following changes wrt. the Web source code:
>
> - C strings instead of a string pool ( and no pool file).
> - A "struct METAPOST" instance that gets moved around, instead of global
> variables (libMP will be thread-safe)
> - A namespace for all externally visible procedures and enums (prefix 'mp')
> - mp_initialize() and mp_finish() calls to allow clean restarts.
> - All file I/O will be configurable (through callbacks)
> - PostScript output will be isolated from the other output. (to allow other
>   output backends in the future).

A worthy project, but one beyond my ability, would be a version of Metafont 
that output PostScript instead of bitmapped fonts. It seems that the bulk of 
the necessary  labor was done in the creation of Metapost. All that is needed 
is the production of a pfb file and an afm file instead of individual 
graphics files. Does anyone else dream of such a project?
-- 
John Culleton

Short list of publishing/marketing books:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf

Re: Extending metapost

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hello,

> A worthy project, but one beyond my ability, would be a version of Metafont 
> that output PostScript instead of bitmapped fonts. 

This is really trick. There is a lot of non-trivial math involved as
far as I can see. See the discussion on tex-fonts one year ago on
Analytic Bezier curve intersection for MEATFONT and alike.

> It seems that the bulk of the necessary labor was done in the
> creation of Metapost. All that is needed is the production of a pfb
> file and an afm file instead of individual graphics files. 

No, there is more than that. For example, there is no postscript
equivalent of shaped pens on a path in type-1 postscript

> Does anyone else dream of such a project? 

A "lot" of people do. Search for example for metatype1

Patrick
-- 
ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net

Re: Extending metapost

[Taco Hoekwater]

John Culleton wrote:
> 
> A worthy project, but one beyond my ability, would be a version of Metafont 
> that output PostScript instead of bitmapped fonts. It seems that the bulk of 
> the necessary  labor was done in the creation of Metapost. All that is needed 
> is the production of a pfb file and an afm file instead of individual 
> graphics files. 

The truth is that nearly none of the necessary labor was done. Type 1 fonts
are in fact a somewhat different language from normal PostScript, even with
a somewhat different imaging model behind it. For one thing, Type 1 does not
allow shapes to overlap, and for another, it does not allow "white erasing".

> Does anyone else dream of such a project?

Yes, I do. And I am even willing to invest time in such a thing. But the truth
is: I am not familiar with the maths involved. I'd need a very good book on
the subject (2-D equation solving) and a lot of help. MetaType1 works, but
it makes some very strict demands on the input source, and I don't like that.
I'd much prefer a system that accepts 'standard' MF sources.


Greetings, Taco