\=i

\=i

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Dear partners in crime,

I mentioned this some time ago, can't find the answer right now...

I need a \=i where the bar over the <i> is the width of the box. In 
computer modern the bar over the <i> is much too large and looks ugly and 
buts into other letters when used frequently. In good quality typesetting 
the bar in the \=i is always smaller than for, say, \=a and \=u. (Of 
course, ConTeXt already incorporates the \i in its def. of \=i and I don't 
want to lose that feature;->)

Also, Hoenig helped me make a complete old style computer modern virtual 
font. Where can I upload this package (with all Context-related 
typescripts) for people to look at and maybe improve?

Best
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: \=i

[Hans Hagen]

At 01:50 20/05/2004, you wrote:
>Dear partners in crime,
>
>I mentioned this some time ago, can't find the answer right now...
>
>I need a \=i where the bar over the <i> is the width of the box. In 
>computer modern the bar over the <i> is much too large and looks ugly and 
>buts into other letters when used frequently. In good quality typesetting 
>the bar in the \=i is always smaller than for, say, \=a and \=u. (Of 
>course, ConTeXt already incorporates the \i in its def. of \=i and I don't 
>want to lose that feature;->)
>
>Also, Hoenig helped me make a complete old style computer modern virtual 
>font. Where can I upload this package (with all Context-related 
>typescripts) for people to look at and maybe improve?

did you try the latin modern fonts? they have many composed characters as 
well as more/better accents

Hans  

Re: \=i

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Fri, 21 May 2004 12:28:41 +0200, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> did you try the latin modern fonts? they have many composed characters 
> as well as more/better accents

No, I've never tried them...

Ok, I found them; where are the typescripts for them? 
http://dante.ctan.org/CTAN/fonts/ps-type1/lm/tex/ only has latex support 
files.

Does lm support oldstyle numerals by default?

Anyway, I have spent soo many hours tweaking cm for my projects I am a bit 
afraid to switch at the moment; have a huge project due next week... Is 
there anything quick and dirty I can do till I have time to experiment 
with lm?

Best
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: \=i

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Fri, 21 May 2004 12:28:41 +0200, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> did you try the latin modern fonts? they have many composed characters 
> as well as more/better accents

I just checked lmr12.pfb in Fontlab; the accent on hex charachter 1BA 
(imacron) is just as wide as in the plain.tex definition (and is thus 
useless)! If Hans or anyone else has any influence with the author they 
should convince him to change that asap... (Also, it does not seem to have 
an old-style option for numerals; indispensable for work in the humanities 
(i.e., my work;->))

Anyway, lm certainly looks promising; it will probably take some work to 
adapt it so that it can replace all the tweaking I've done to get cmr to 
work for me. Are typescripts available for lm?

I looked in the archives; I did have one very long letter (Tue, 23 Sep 
2003) with suggestions for lm if anyone is interested in reading them 
again...

I just sent a letter to comp.text.tex about that \=i business; since it's 
a little more clear & precise than what I wrote here I repeat it:

=============================================
This is a job/challenge for a real TeXnician;-)

For Computer modern, I need to redefine \=i so that it does the following: 
the bar over the <\i> must be the width of the i-box. In plain.tex the bar 
over the <i> or <\i> is much too wide, looks ugly and sometimes butts into 
other letters/diacritics when used frequently (as in frequent Arabic 
transliteration). In good quality typesetting the bar in the \=i is always 
smaller than for, say, \=a and \=u. (ConTeXt is nice in that it already 
incorporates the \i in its def. of \=i and I don't want to lose that 
feature;->)

Note that the solution must work for both slanted and non-slanted styles. 
I've played around with the plain.tex definitions for manipulating 
accents, but this one is way out of my league, I think. The main problem 
of course lies in defining a \rule with the same relative height as the 
usual bar in cm (\char'26), but whose relative width is always that of the 
i-box as defined in the tfm file. Once such a chameleon bar is defined it 
should be relatively easy to define it as an accent such that we can 
redefine \=i to give us dotless-i with a thinner bar. Also note that \= 
should maintain its usual definition for other letters.

Is anyone up to this challenge? I really hope so...

(I don't know how complicated this is but maybe a solution is worth 
publishing in Tugboat? Or maybe it's trivial which is fine by me...)

Best 2 all
Idris
=============================================
-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: \=i

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Could not interest anyone in the \=i problem, I guess. Anyway, could 
someone tell me how ConTeXt defines \=i (so as to always get plain \=\i)?

Best
Idris

On Mon, 24 May 2004 12:42:00 -0600, Idris Samawi Hamid 
<ishamid@colostate.edu> wrote:

> On Fri, 21 May 2004 12:28:41 +0200, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>
>> did you try the latin modern fonts? they have many composed characters 
>> as well as more/better accents

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re[2]: \=i

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:

> Could not interest anyone in the \=i problem, I guess. Anyway, could
> someone tell me how ConTeXt defines \=i (so as to always get plain \=\i)?

Very funky stuff, accents in ConTeXt. You'd have to dig up in
enco-acc plus the other enco-* files.

\=i becomes \imacron

which by default (enco-def) becomes

\definecharacter imacron          {\buildtextaccent\textmacron \dotlessi}

which you can study in enco-ini :)

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: Re[2]: \=i

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Thu, 27 May 2004 12:31:10 +0200, Giuseppe Bilotta <gip.bilotta@iol.it> 
wrote:

> Wednesday, May 26, 2004 Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
>
>> Could not interest anyone in the \=i problem, I guess. Anyway, could
>> someone tell me how ConTeXt defines \=i (so as to always get plain 
>> \=\i)?
>
> Very funky stuff, accents in ConTeXt. You'd have to dig up in
> enco-acc plus the other enco-* files.

I actually found this last night, digging in the ConTeXt code. U're right: 
VERY funky stuff;-)
But it's really nice, since, thnx 2 the way Hans has abstracted things, 
the solution for \=i has no effect on \=I or anything else:-)
Anyway, I now have a working proper accent now for \tf and \it;

=============imacron.tex==================
\setupoutput[pdftex]

\setupbodyfontenvironment[default][em=italic]

\def\SHIFT#1{\dimen0=.00#1ex \multiply\dimen0 by\fontdimen1\font
     \kern-.0156\dimen0} % compensate for slant/italic in lower accents

\def\USHIFT#1{\dimen0=.00#1ex \multiply\dimen0 by\fontdimen1\font
              \kern.0156\dimen0} % compensate for slant/italic in upper 
accents

\def\IBAR%
{\leavevmode\vbox{\offinterlineskip\lineskip0.295ex%
%\ialign{##\cr\USHIFT{120}\hbox to .27777em% %% for width of i-box
%{\leaders\hrule height .067354ex\hfill}%
%\SHIFT{1}\cr\i\cr}}}
\ialign{##\cr\USHIFT{120}\hfill\hbox to .21243em% %% for width of i-glyph 
base
{\leaders\hrule height .067354ex\hfill}%
\hfill\SHIFT{1}\cr\i\cr}}}

\starttext

\definecharacter imacron %
{\buildtextaccent\textmacron \dotlessi}
% original def from enco-def.tex

\=i \=I

{\em b\=in\=ary}   f\=i\high{\txx c}\=i % {\bi  b\=in\=ary} % need 
conditionals for bold and small caps

\blank[big]

\definecharacter imacron {\IBAR}
% new imacron

\=i \=I

{\em b\=in\=ary}   f\=i\high{\txx c}\=i % {\bi  b\=in\=ary}

\stoptext
==================================================================

A word on the parameters: I ran tftopl on cmr12.tfm, made a note of the 
QUAD and X-HEIGHT values, as well as the width of the i-box. I opened 
\cmr12.pfb in FontLab and made some measurements of the i-glyph and the 
macron bar; dividing a given width by the QUAD-value gives the rlative em 
values used above (similarly for the lineskip calculation, dividing 
heights by X-HEIGHT).

The definition of \IBAR has two possibilities: macron is width of the 
i-box, or it's the width of the base of the i-glyph. Upon experimentation, 
I found the latter width more aesthetically pleasing, but I have kept the 
other as an option (commented). In fact, making the macron the width of 
the i-box may make better sense for \sc.

PROBLEM: Now I need to learn more about \TeX conditionals, because this 
solution does not work for \bf, \bi, and the like. The height of the 
imacron bar needs to be greater for bold fonts. How can I make a set of 
three conditionals such that the definition of \IBAR has a different 
expansion for

\tf, \it, \sl etc.

\bf, \bi, \bs etc.

\sc

??? That is, when \bf is on, the definition of \IBAR should expand a 
conditional that is based on the bold-dependent parameters.

Anyway, for \tf and \it this looks soooo much better than the plain.tex 
imacron; Please try it out! And I'm open to suggestions on tweaking the 
parameters to make this look better.

Best
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re[2]: \=i

[Hans Hagen]

At 12:31 27/05/2004, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:
>Wednesday, May 26, 2004 Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
>
> > Could not interest anyone in the \=i problem, I guess. Anyway, could
> > someone tell me how ConTeXt defines \=i (so as to always get plain \=\i)?

ah, we stand you sitting there crying over tex, can we?

in addition to gb's solution:

>Very funky stuff, accents in ConTeXt. You'd have to dig up in
>enco-acc plus the other enco-* files.
>
>\=i becomes \imacron
>
>which by default (enco-def) becomes
>
>\definecharacter imacron          {\buildtextaccent\textmacron \dotlessi}
>
>which you can study in enco-ini :)

you can play with:

\starttext

% \startencoding[...]

\defineaccent = {idris} {\idris}

\definecharacter idris {sirdi}

% \stopencoding

he \={idris}!

\stoptext

Re: Re[2]: \=i

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Thu, 27 May 2004 23:47:07 +0200, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> ah, we stand you sitting there crying over tex, can we?

Sometimes I want to curse TeX, believe me... Seriously though, I have a 
real phobia for all that low low-level stuff...

Did u have a chance 2 look at my general solution 4 medium fonts? I would 
like to generalize it to bold and small caps but I don't understand how to 
set up a conditionals macro that expands in accordance with the 
surrounding font. I need sthing like

\ifboldtrue
\IBARA % parameterized for bold fonts
\else
\ifsctrue
\IBARB % parameterized for sc fonts
\else
\IBAR  % parameterized for medium fonts
\fi\fi

> you can play with:
>
> \starttext
>
> % \startencoding[...]
>
> \defineaccent = {idris} {\idris}
>
> \definecharacter idris {sirdi}
>
> % \stopencoding
>
> he \={idris}!
>
> \stoptext

I don't get it; when I run this as given I don't get any accents; I just 
get
<he sirdi!> Am I missing something?

Thnx 2 all
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

Re: Re[2]: \=i

[Hans Hagen]

At 05:24 29/05/2004, you wrote:
>On Thu, 27 May 2004 23:47:07 +0200, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>
>>ah, we stand you sitting there crying over tex, can we?
>
>Sometimes I want to curse TeX, believe me... Seriously though, I have a 
>real phobia for all that low low-level stuff...
>
>Did u have a chance 2 look at my general solution 4 medium fonts? I would 
>like to generalize it to bold and small caps but I don't understand how to 
>set up a conditionals macro that expands in accordance with the 
>surrounding font. I need sthing like
>
>\ifboldtrue
>\IBARA % parameterized for bold fonts
>\else
>\ifsctrue
>\IBARB % parameterized for sc fonts
>\else
>\IBAR  % parameterized for medium fonts
>\fi\fi

take a look at font-ini and search for the definition of \em; but since you 
suffered already a lot:

\unprotect

\definesystemvariable{sx}

\def\definestylecollection
   {\dotripleargument\dodefinestylecollection}

\def\dodefinestylecollection[#1][#2][#3]%
   {\unexpanded\setvalue{#1}{\styleinstance[#1]}%
    \setvalue{\??sx#1:#2}{#3}}

\unexpanded\def\styleinstance[#1]%
   {\executeifdefined{\??sx#1:\fontalternative}{\getvalue{\??sx#1:\s!default}}}

\protect

\definestylecollection[mine][default][sorry]
\definestylecollection[mine][bf][\sl]
\definestylecollection[mine][sl][\tt]

{\bf test \mine test \sl test \mine test \bs oeps \mine oeps}

let me know if this works ok, maybe i can add it to the kernel then

Hans  

Re: \=i

[Adam Lindsay]

Hans Hagen said this at Tue, 1 Jun 2004 21:04:49 +0200:

>
>take a look at font-ini and search for the definition of \em; but since you 
>suffered already a lot:

Hey Hans, I like this one a lot. It's more of what I imaged when you
mentioned "fonts" and "parameters". (But I managed something interesting
there... need to write it up.)

I'd prefer (at least a variant) that does it based on fontstyle as well:

\unprotect

\definesystemvariable{sx}

\def\definestylecollection
   {\dotripleargument\dodefinestylecollection}

\def\dodefinestylecollection[#1][#2][#3][#4]%
   {\unexpanded\setvalue{#1}{\styleinstance[#1]}%
    \setvalue{\??sx#1:#2:#3}{#4}}

\unexpanded\def\styleinstance[#1]%
   {\executeifdefined{\??sx#1:\fontstyle:\fontalternative}{\getvalue{\?
?sx#1:\fontstyle:\s!default}}}

\protect
\definestylecollection[caps][ss][default][\sc]
\definestylecollection[caps][ss][bf][\bc]
\definestylecollection[caps][ss][bi][\bc]
\definestylecollection[caps][ss][bs][\bc]

>let me know if this works ok, maybe i can add it to the kernel then

Works fine here.

So. Now that we can parameterise font alternatives much more easily, can
there be some sort of agreement on other, expanded names for font
alternatives that go beyond the ones that cmr offers? 

I'm currently playing with these names (some grabbed from Hans's draft of
Utopia support in type-siz). Do any of them look grossly wrong?

\definebodyfont [default] [rm]
  [tf=Serif sa 1,
   it=SerifItalic sa 1,
   sl=SerifSlanted sa 1,
   sc=SerifCaps sa 1,
%   iy=SerifItalicCaps sa 1, % ??
   bf=SerifBold sa 1,
   bi=SerifBoldItalic sa 1,
   bs=SerifBoldSlanted sa 1,
   bc=SerifBoldCaps sa 1,
%   by=SerifBoldItalicCaps sa 1, % ??   
   db=SerifSemi sa 1,
   di=SerifSemiItalic sa 1,
   ds=SerifSemiSlanted sa 1,
   dc=SerifSemiCaps sa 1,
%   dy=SerifSemiItalicCaps sa 1, % ??   
   eb=SerifBlack sa 1,
   ei=SerifBlackItalic sa 1,
   es=SerifBlackSlanted sa 1,
   ec=SerifBlackCaps sa 1,
%   ey=SerifBlackItalicCaps sa 1, % ??   
   lf=SerifLight sa 1,
   li=SerifLightItalic sa 1,
   ls=SerifLightSlanted sa 1,
   lc=SerifLightCaps sa 1,
%   ly=SerifLightItalicCaps sa 1 % ??   
   ]
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Adam T. Lindsay                      atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
 Computing Dept, Lancaster University   +44(0)1524/594.537
 Lancaster, LA1 4YR, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/593.608
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: \=i

[Hans Hagen]

At 21:45 02/06/2004, you wrote:

>I'd prefer (at least a variant) that does it based on fontstyle as well:
>
>\unprotect
>
>\definesystemvariable{sx}
>
>\def\definestylecollection
>    {\dotripleargument\dodefinestylecollection}
>
>\def\dodefinestylecollection[#1][#2][#3][#4]%
>    {\unexpanded\setvalue{#1}{\styleinstance[#1]}%
>     \setvalue{\??sx#1:#2:#3}{#4}}
>
>\unexpanded\def\styleinstance[#1]%
>    {\executeifdefined{\??sx#1:\fontstyle:\fontalternative}{\getvalue{\?
>?sx#1:\fontstyle:\s!default}}}
>
>\protect
>\definestylecollection[caps][ss][default][\sc]
>\definestylecollection[caps][ss][bf][\bc]
>\definestylecollection[caps][ss][bi][\bc]
>\definestylecollection[caps][ss][bs][\bc]

% \definestylecollection[mine]

% \definestyleinstance[mine][default][sorry]
% \definestyleinstance[mine][tt][bs][ttbs:\rm\sl]
% \definestyleinstance[mine][tt][bf][ttbf:\rm\sl]
% \definestyleinstance[mine][bf][\sl]
% \definestyleinstance[mine][sl][\tt]

% {\bf test \mine test \sl test \mine test \bs oeps \mine oeps {\tt test 
\mine \bf test}}

\definesystemvariable{sx}

\def\definestylecollection
   {\dosingleargument\dodefinestylecollection}

\def\dodefinestylecollection[#1]%
   {\iffirstargument
      \unexpanded\setvalue{#1}{\styleinstance[#1]}%
      \def\docommand##1%
        {\def\dodocommand####1{\letbeundefined{\??sx##1:####1:\commalistelement}}%
         \processcommacommand[\alternativelist,\s!default]\dodocommand}%
      \processcommacommand[\stylelist,\s!default]\docommand
    \fi}

\def\definestyleinstance
   {\doquadrupleargument\dodefinestyleinstance}

\def\dodefinestyleinstance[#1][#2][#3][#4]% [name] [rm|ss|tt|..] 
[sl|bf|...] [whatever]
   {\iffirstargument
      \doifundefined{#1}{\definestylecollection[#1]}%
    \fi
    \iffourthargument
      \setvalue{\??sx#1:#2:#3}{#4}%
    \else\ifthirdargument
      \setvalue{\??sx#1::#2}{#3}%
    \else\ifsecondargument
      \letvalue{\??sx#1::#2}\empty
    \fi\fi\fi}

\unexpanded\def\styleinstance[#1]% will be faster
   {%\begingroup\expanded{\infofont[#1:\fontstyle:\fontalternative]}\endgroup
    \executeifdefined{\??sx#1:\fontstyle:\fontalternative}%
   {\executeifdefined{\??sx#1:\fontstyle:\s!default}%
   {\executeifdefined{\??sx#1::\fontalternative}
   {\getvalue        {\??sx#1::\s!default}}}}}