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From: Rik Kabel <ConTeXt@rik.users.panix.com>
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context
Subject: Re: BibTeX inproceedings entries not rendered
 correctly in APA style
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 23:10:34 -0400
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On 5/24/2021 22:12, Alan Braslau wrote:
> On Mon, 24 May 2021 17:53:49 -0400
> Rik Kabel <ConTeXt@rik.users.panix.com> wrote:
>
>> This is intended. Or rather, it is a side-effect of the intended
>> behavior.
>>
>> If you add an editor ("editor={Baz, Bar}") you will get something
>> like:
>>
>>      Foo, B. (1983). Title of the paper. In B. Baz (Ed.), /Booktitle/.
>>      Author.
>>
>> And if you then add a publisher ("publisher={Paymefirst}") you will
>> get:
>>
>>      Foo, B. (1983). Title of the paper. In B. Bar (Ed.), Booktitle.
>>      Paymefirst.
>>
>> The APA presumes that you have both an editor and a publisher for
>> pieces contained in other works. It calls for the use of the author
>> as publisher if no publisher is present. It is silent about what to
>> do if you have no editor.
> It looks like a missing editor field should be caught. What should the
> rule be?
>
> Actually, @inproceedings should not be used without an editor - makes
> no sense. If the author of the paper happens to be the editor, then the
> .bib data file should define this with an editor= field.
>
> We can change the behavior if a clear case can be made as to what
> fallback would make sense. Keep in mind the dictum: "garbage in/garbage
> out"...
>
> Alan

For the case of works within works (inproceedings, inbook, incollection, 
perhaps conference) I would think that the simplest solution is to 
simply drop it, so that in the example above one would simply get:

    Foo, B. (1983). Title of the paper. In /Booktitle/. Paymefirst.

Although I do think that, at least for inproceedings, lack of an editor 
should at least be flagged. A simple compilation of works may have no 
named editor, of I see no reason to require it for inbook or 
incollection. Cheap publishers regularly put out such collections of 
out-of-copyright works.

The implicit assumption that a work with no documented publisher is a 
self-published work is not especially to my liking -- publishers may 
have good reason to not identify themselves (think of the publishers of 
the works of Spinoza and, in part, Voltaire) -- but I understand that 
the APA thinks it important. Of course, if you cannot document the 
publisher for an entry, you can explicitly list it as unknown or /sine 
nomine/, as appropriate, to avoid the infelicity of having the author's 
name just stuck in there.

-- 
Rik


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    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/24/2021 22:12, Alan Braslau wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:20210524201222.2db107fd@poo.hsd1.co.comcast.net">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Mon, 24 May 2021 17:53:49 -0400
Rik Kabel <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ConTeXt@rik.users.panix.com">&lt;ConTeXt@rik.users.panix.com&gt;</a> wrote:

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">This is intended. Or rather, it is a side-effect of the intended
behavior.

If you add an editor ("editor={Baz, Bar}") you will get something
like:

    Foo, B. (1983). Title of the paper. In B. Baz (Ed.), /Booktitle/.
    Author.

And if you then add a publisher ("publisher={Paymefirst}") you will
get:

    Foo, B. (1983). Title of the paper. In B. Bar (Ed.), Booktitle.
    Paymefirst.

The APA presumes that you have both an editor and a publisher for
pieces contained in other works. It calls for the use of the author
as publisher if no publisher is present. It is silent about what to
do if you have no editor.
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
It looks like a missing editor field should be caught. What should the
rule be?

Actually, @inproceedings should not be used without an editor - makes
no sense. If the author of the paper happens to be the editor, then the
.bib data file should define this with an editor= field.

We can change the behavior if a clear case can be made as to what
fallback would make sense. Keep in mind the dictum: "garbage in/garbage
out"...

Alan</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p>For the case of works within works (inproceedings, inbook,
      incollection, perhaps conference) I would think that the simplest
      solution is to simply drop it, so that in the example above one
      would simply get:</p>
    <blockquote>
      <p>Foo, B. (1983). Title of the paper. In <i>Booktitle</i>.
        Paymefirst.</p>
    </blockquote>
    <p>Although I do think that, at least for inproceedings, lack of an
      editor should at least be flagged. A simple compilation of works
      may have no named editor, of I see no reason to require it for
      inbook or incollection. Cheap publishers regularly put out such
      collections of out-of-copyright works.<br>
    </p>
    <p>The implicit assumption that a work with no documented publisher
      is a self-published work is not especially to my liking --
      publishers may have good reason to not identify themselves (think
      of the publishers of the works of Spinoza and, in part, Voltaire)
      -- but I understand that the APA thinks it important. Of course,
      if you cannot document the publisher for an entry, you can
      explicitly list it as unknown or <i>sine nomine</i>, as
      appropriate, to avoid the infelicity of having the author's name
      just stuck in there.</p>
    <p>-- <br>
      Rik<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:20210524201222.2db107fd@poo.hsd1.co.comcast.net">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
    </blockquote>
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