* Re: bug in mkii xetex: mp figure is not in the right position
2008-11-26 9:28 ` vafa
@ 2008-11-26 9:38 ` luigi scarso
2008-11-26 9:54 ` Marcin Borkowski
2008-11-26 9:42 ` Mojca Miklavec
` (3 subsequent siblings)
4 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso @ 2008-11-26 9:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
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On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:28 AM, <vafa@aol.com.au> wrote:
> ConTeXt peaple always have used to say that ConTeXt is better than LaTeX.
yes, true.
Also
LaTeX peaple always have used to say that LaTeX is better than ConTeXt
is true
>
> I have been recieving emails from CoNTeXt list and it seems that ConTeXt
> has heaps of bugs.
>
There are some bugs.
>
> LaTeX rocks...!
true, if you are from LaTeX peaple.
--
luigi
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: bug in mkii xetex: mp figure is not in the right position
2008-11-26 9:38 ` luigi scarso
@ 2008-11-26 9:54 ` Marcin Borkowski
2008-11-26 10:09 ` luigi scarso
2008-11-26 10:20 ` Yue Wang
0 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-26 9:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Dnia Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:38:59AM +0100, luigi scarso napisał(a):
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:28 AM, <vafa@aol.com.au> wrote:
>
> > ConTeXt peaple always have used to say that ConTeXt is better than LaTeX.
>
> yes, true.
Not entirely (see below).
> Also
> LaTeX peaple always have used to say that LaTeX is better than ConTeXt
> is true
>
>
> >
> > I have been recieving emails from CoNTeXt list and it seems that ConTeXt
> > has heaps of bugs.
> >
>
> There are some bugs.
As in most software projects. And, that;s true, there _are_ lots of
bugs in ConTeXt. But still, it is very usable.
>
>
> >
> > LaTeX rocks...!
>
> true, if you are from LaTeX peaple.
Well, I've been using LaTeX for several years and I don't think it to be
really rocking. And neither is ConTeXt (yet) - see below.
And the question is: why to start yet another flame war?
I am the proof (by example) that the sets of plain TeX people, LaTeX
people and ConTeXt people have a nonempty intersection. There are areas
where LaTeX is much better than ConTeXt: when I write a paper on maths,
almost no journal will accept ConTeXt. Also, LaTeX is very stable and
ConTeXt is not. OTOH, when ConTeXt reaches the maturity level of LaTeX,
it _will_ be much better - but we'll have to wait a while for it to
happen.
Greets
--
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)
Emacs: Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: bug in mkii xetex: mp figure is not in the right position
2008-11-26 9:54 ` Marcin Borkowski
@ 2008-11-26 10:09 ` luigi scarso
2008-11-26 11:22 ` Marcin Borkowski
2008-11-26 10:20 ` Yue Wang
1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso @ 2008-11-26 10:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
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On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Marcin Borkowski <
mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl> wrote:
> Dnia Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:38:59AM +0100, luigi scarso napisał(a):
> > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:28 AM, <vafa@aol.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > > ConTeXt peaple always have used to say that ConTeXt is better than
> LaTeX.
> >
> > yes, true.
>
> Not entirely (see below).
>
please, note:
not **all** context peaple (whatever peaple means!)
have used to say that ConTeXt is better than LaTeX,
but **some** context peaple (I, for example, assuming peaple == people )
You are a counter example .
So the statement is ** entirely true **.
>
> > Also
> > LaTeX peaple always have used to say that LaTeX is better than ConTeXt
> > is true
> >
>
yes, as before
>
> >
> > >
> > > I have been recieving emails from CoNTeXt list and it seems that
> ConTeXt
> > > has heaps of bugs.
> > >
> >
> > There are some bugs.
>
> As in most software projects. And, that;s true, there _are_ lots of
> bugs in ConTeXt. But still, it is very usable.
>
"lots of bug" and "still very usable"
are contradictory statemens .
> >
> >
> > >
> > > LaTeX rocks...!
> >
> > true, if you are from LaTeX peaple.
>
see before .
>
>
>
> --
> Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)
>
> Emacs: Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift.
>
true . ** entirely true **.
::::||||::::
(^___^)
--
luigi
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: bug in mkii xetex: mp figure is not in the right position
2008-11-26 10:09 ` luigi scarso
@ 2008-11-26 11:22 ` Marcin Borkowski
2008-11-27 16:17 ` Aditya Mahajan
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-26 11:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Dnia Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:09:08AM +0100, luigi scarso napisał(a):
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Marcin Borkowski <
> mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl> wrote:
>
> > Dnia Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:38:59AM +0100, luigi scarso napisał(a):
> > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:28 AM, <vafa@aol.com.au> wrote:
> > >
> > > > ConTeXt peaple always have used to say that ConTeXt is better than
> > LaTeX.
> > >
> > > yes, true.
> >
> > Not entirely (see below).
> >
> please, note:
> not **all** context peaple (whatever peaple means!)
> have used to say that ConTeXt is better than LaTeX,
> but **some** context peaple (I, for example, assuming peaple == people )
> You are a counter example .
> So the statement is ** entirely true **.
ok, I give up;)
>
>
> >
> > > Also
> > > LaTeX peaple always have used to say that LaTeX is better than ConTeXt
> > > is true
> > >
> >
> yes, as before
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I have been recieving emails from CoNTeXt list and it seems that
> > ConTeXt
> > > > has heaps of bugs.
> > > >
> > >
> > > There are some bugs.
> >
> > As in most software projects. And, that;s true, there _are_ lots of
> > bugs in ConTeXt. But still, it is very usable.
> >
> "lots of bug" and "still very usable"
> are contradictory statemens .
No. Most popular case: M$ Windows (although personally I'll argue about
their "usability";)).
The point is that ConTeXt bugs do not crash it in usual scenarios, but
rather when some complex interactions are involved. So usually
everything is fine, _unless_ you want something strange. And then -
well, _strange_ things do happen.
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > LaTeX rocks...!
> > >
> > > true, if you are from LaTeX peaple.
> >
>
> see before .
>
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> > --
> > Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)
> >
> > Emacs: Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift.
> >
> true . ** entirely true **.
Glad you like it. (Personally, I use both emacs and vim. Really.)
BTW: do you know what "vim" means? It is an old African word meaning
"how do you quit this f#####g s##t?"
Greets
--
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)
People can be divided into three groups: those who can count and those
who can't.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: bug in mkii xetex: mp figure is not in the right position
2008-11-26 11:22 ` Marcin Borkowski
@ 2008-11-27 16:17 ` Aditya Mahajan
2008-11-27 16:23 ` luigi scarso
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2008-11-27 16:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Not in a mood to be involved in a latex-context flame today, but emacs-vim
flame is another story :-)
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>> Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)
>>>
>>> Emacs: Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift.
>>>
>> true . ** entirely true **.
>
> Glad you like it. (Personally, I use both emacs and vim. Really.)
>
> BTW: do you know what "vim" means? It is an old African word meaning
> "how do you quit this f#####g s##t?"
Maybe, that is why vim's "splash screen" gives information on how to quit
it.
Aditya
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: bug in mkii xetex: mp figure is not in the right position
2008-11-27 16:17 ` Aditya Mahajan
@ 2008-11-27 16:23 ` luigi scarso
0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso @ 2008-11-27 16:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
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On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> wrote:
> Not in a mood to be involved in a latex-context flame today, but emacs-vim
> flame is another story :-)
>
> On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> >>> Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)
> >>>
> >>> Emacs: Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift.
> >>>
> >> true . ** entirely true **.
> >
> > Glad you like it. (Personally, I use both emacs and vim. Really.)
> >
> > BTW: do you know what "vim" means? It is an old African word meaning
> > "how do you quit this f#####g s##t?"
>
> Maybe, that is why vim's "splash screen" gives information on how to quit
> it.
>
emacs will save the world, with a little help from his friend vim
--
luigi
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: bug in mkii xetex: mp figure is not in the right position
2008-11-26 9:54 ` Marcin Borkowski
2008-11-26 10:09 ` luigi scarso
@ 2008-11-26 10:20 ` Yue Wang
2008-11-26 10:25 ` luigi scarso
1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Yue Wang @ 2008-11-26 10:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Hi:
Please, shut up and code: we need to fix these bugs first!
Yue Wang
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Marcin Borkowski
<mbork@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl> wrote:
> Dnia Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:38:59AM +0100, luigi scarso napisał(a):
>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:28 AM, <vafa@aol.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> > ConTeXt peaple always have used to say that ConTeXt is better than LaTeX.
>>
>> yes, true.
>
> Not entirely (see below).
>
>> Also
>> LaTeX peaple always have used to say that LaTeX is better than ConTeXt
>> is true
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I have been recieving emails from CoNTeXt list and it seems that ConTeXt
>> > has heaps of bugs.
>> >
>>
>> There are some bugs.
>
> As in most software projects. And, that;s true, there _are_ lots of
> bugs in ConTeXt. But still, it is very usable.
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > LaTeX rocks...!
>>
>> true, if you are from LaTeX peaple.
>
> Well, I've been using LaTeX for several years and I don't think it to be
> really rocking. And neither is ConTeXt (yet) - see below.
>
> And the question is: why to start yet another flame war?
>
> I am the proof (by example) that the sets of plain TeX people, LaTeX
> people and ConTeXt people have a nonempty intersection. There are areas
> where LaTeX is much better than ConTeXt: when I write a paper on maths,
> almost no journal will accept ConTeXt. Also, LaTeX is very stable and
> ConTeXt is not. OTOH, when ConTeXt reaches the maturity level of LaTeX,
> it _will_ be much better - but we'll have to wait a while for it to
> happen.
>
> Greets
>
> --
> Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)
>
> Emacs: Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift.
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: bug in mkii xetex: mp figure is not in the right position
2008-11-26 10:20 ` Yue Wang
@ 2008-11-26 10:25 ` luigi scarso
0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: luigi scarso @ 2008-11-26 10:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
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On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Yue Wang <yuleopen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi:
>
>
> Please, shut up and code: we need to fix these bugs first!
>
For statistical reasons,
we need some amount of flare wars and off-topics
--
luigi
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: bug in mkii xetex: mp figure is not in the right position
2008-11-26 9:28 ` vafa
2008-11-26 9:38 ` luigi scarso
@ 2008-11-26 9:42 ` Mojca Miklavec
2008-11-26 9:49 ` Marcin Borkowski
` (2 subsequent siblings)
4 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Mojca Miklavec @ 2008-11-26 9:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:28 AM, <vafa@aol.com.au> wrote:
> ConTeXt peaple always have used to say that ConTeXt is better than LaTeX.
>
> I have been recieving emails from CoNTeXt list and it seems that ConTeXt has
> heaps of bugs.
>
> LaTeX rocks...!
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
(A. Einstein)
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: bug in mkii xetex: mp figure is not in the right position
2008-11-26 9:28 ` vafa
2008-11-26 9:38 ` luigi scarso
2008-11-26 9:42 ` Mojca Miklavec
@ 2008-11-26 9:49 ` Marcin Borkowski
2008-11-26 9:56 ` Yue Wang
2008-11-26 10:00 ` Hans Hagen
4 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2008-11-26 9:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Dnia Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 04:28:35AM -0500, vafa@aol.com.au napisał(a):
> ConTeXt peaple always have used to say that ConTeXt is better than LaTeX.
>
> I have been recieving emails from CoNTeXt list and it seems that ConTeXt has heaps of bugs.
>
>
> LaTeX rocks...!
Sorry, but I just can't resist a joke: what you call a "bug" in ConTeXt
world is called a "feature" in LaTeX.
And to be more serious: I think I was rather fair in my previous post
on the difference between (plain) TeX and ConTeXt.
Also, LaTeX is "frozen" in some sense: the latest news on the LaTeX
project site comes from 2005, IIRC. So the LaTeX "core" (or "kernel")
is very stable (and, one has to admit, has very few bugs - and very
limited features...). And LaTeX packages are quite a jungle. But
still: there are lots of them which are very stable (or frozen), and
some which are under constant development (pgf, for instance).
Also, LaTeX documents are (usually) much simpler than ConTeXt documents,
so it is much easier to have few bugs - there is less room for complex
interactions (aside from package clashes, which happen from time to
time).
So if you want a stable document preparation and markup system with a
large userbase, though sometimes limited functionality (try to do a
two-column enumerate in LaTeX automatically, something like:
1) ... 3) ...
2) ... 4) ...
without resorting to general multicolumn hackery - and the multicol
package, which is not entirely free!), then yes, LaTeX is better. And
if you want some features _not_ present in LaTeX or you need to typeset
_really_ complex documents (complex in terms of layout, for example), or
your documents are not scientific papers then ConTeXt is probably better.
Greets
--
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)
Szema Izrael: Adonai Elohenu, Adonai Ehad!
___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: bug in mkii xetex: mp figure is not in the right position
2008-11-26 9:28 ` vafa
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2008-11-26 9:49 ` Marcin Borkowski
@ 2008-11-26 9:56 ` Yue Wang
2008-11-26 10:00 ` Hans Hagen
4 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Yue Wang @ 2008-11-26 9:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 5:28 PM, <vafa@aol.com.au> wrote:
> ConTeXt peaple always have used to say that ConTeXt is better than LaTeX.
>
> I have been recieving emails from CoNTeXt list and it seems that ConTeXt has
> heaps of bugs.
>
Staying at an older version of ConTeXt (for example, I always use
ConTeXt 2005.01 distributed in teTeX 3.0 for book and journal
production) will have less bugs. And if bugs were found in these
versions, they were always already been fixed some month after this
release, so just copy the related code in the later versions to your
tex file and then everything works fine again.
(in fact, I found no serious bugs in that version).
>
> LaTeX rocks...!
Latex always run into problems here. hyperlink sometimes give me weird
characters (it will always give wierd characters if the link contains
CJK characters due to the bug in hyperref, whatever driver and engine
you are using).
packages are incompatible with each other and always runs into problem
(I should keep in mind that package A should loaded before package B,
and package A-fix should be place after package B to fix the
incompatibility in package A and B, most packages have this problem,
just to name a few: memoir, hyperref, amsmath, lucidabr, mnsymbol...
).
And I cannot do grid typesetting or other advanced stuffs there.
In fact, Plain TeX rocks! If you find bug in plain TeX, you can be
famous overnight!
(and I also love Karl Berry's eplain format, it's lightweight and powerful.)
> ________________________________
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>
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: bug in mkii xetex: mp figure is not in the right position
2008-11-26 9:28 ` vafa
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2008-11-26 9:56 ` Yue Wang
@ 2008-11-26 10:00 ` Hans Hagen
2008-11-26 11:33 ` vafa
4 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2008-11-26 10:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
vafa@aol.com.au wrote:
> ConTeXt peaple always have used to say that ConTeXt is better than LaTeX.
>
> I have been recieving emails from CoNTeXt list and it seems that ConTeXt
> has heaps of bugs.
?
for sure the luatex/mkiv (not to be confused with pdftex/mkii) pair has
heaps of bugs (which are solved at some point) but it's just because we
move on and because users here are willing to experiment with new stuff
> LaTeX rocks...!
then you're on the wrong list -)
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
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