From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/47530 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yue Wang Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: new beta Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:13:25 +0800 Message-ID: <68bfdc900902190813j3959c79bv691dcad0eff2b261@mail.gmail.com> References: <499B1E32.6070505@wxs.nl> <499D2EC4.5090305@wxs.nl> <68bfdc900902190536s17775050r4064149a5547608c@mail.gmail.com> <0A1A23A7-3262-478A-8D6E-E5C99B89C6E7@gmail.com> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1235060130 14215 80.91.229.12 (19 Feb 2009 16:15:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:15:30 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Thu Feb 19 17:16:45 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LaBZt-0007RC-8A for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:16:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9CED1FB89; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:15:22 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 24480-01; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:14:09 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72AF91FB57; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:14:09 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BA761FB57 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:14:08 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 02472-03-2 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:13:28 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (filter3-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.71]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F9181FB30 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:13:28 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com (rv-out-0708.google.com [209.85.198.241]) by filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n1JGDQTf004033 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:13:27 +0100 Original-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id f25so467051rvb.14 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:13:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=9BGcMdY8zn9WdPBRAs5qunbxYKZ23K+V6CAJyjszK0o=; b=FUjSSvTMZc/nDnYBsZ892aackV07h7dRYX5MHWdflhLHyoH8gwwULdscl4m3zZKNz+ J07DjkTGZ9zIWLDbx6ywvL+XQw2NVTY3VZu3ogbeZX3e/k+AoftS6ceSaH3CQzDM04GL UCkwjHEvhk4cIz+GPV5R7cA+xbSjXydMQYRis= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Lp+AeuFRMAJ5zwXzoQ8G7iDyVs/pk3n9IIBAZwG6NmqGf5YtZMArJU5GqpH78QMJek C0I7vqZsWEkoNjrtUexPlAxJJs94k6hAB6oy9hw1n+yWLwfYAH7NhOCtzzyJmgfacSHB 1+LF+a4Wk+9Nw299oBJP3xr8CQu4Z2o30ie8M= Original-Received: by 10.115.76.5 with SMTP id d5mr3754249wal.55.1235060005154; Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:13:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <0A1A23A7-3262-478A-8D6E-E5C99B89C6E7@gmail.com> X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=209.85.198.241; country=US; region=CA; city=Mountain View; postalcode=94043; latitude=37.4192; longitude=-122.0574; metrocode=807; areacode=650; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=37.4192,-122.0574&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 182488974 - a8c3a4456e53 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.87.102.71 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:47530 Archived-At: On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > What method do you want to use. > > 1. Make a punctuation half width and insert space between them, e.g. > 組版\hbox to .5em{」\hss}\hbox to .5em{。\hss}\hskip .5em\hbox to > .5em{\hss「}原則 > > 2. Let the punctuation full width and kern char combinations, e.g. > 組版」\kern.5em。\kern.5em「原則 > neither. the position of the bounding box of a certain punctuation glyph is highly font-dependent. if we use the half/full width and set all the parameters constant, we will get ugly result when the font is changed. It is easy to compare sim*.ttf and find that the punctuation glyph positions in the metrics boxes of different fotns vary significantly. Moreover, some glyphs in the font takes more than half-width. You can open simli.ttf (distributed in windows xp), and find glyph quotedblright 8821 (RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK), the max_y = 130 while a em=256. And these are not rare cases. In the same font, different punctuation have very different bounding box position in the font metrics too. for quotedblright 8821 (RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK) in simli.ttf, max_y=130, while for uni3002 at 12290 (IDEOGRAPHIC FULL STOP) in simli.ttf, max_y=82. it is not fair to set equal width for them. So we should not cut a glyph into half and take the left part for typesetting. Due to some reasons dates back from early days of computer typeface design (at the old days, we have no idea about proportional width, all the glyphs are set to square [for CJK]. Operating systems or Document processing systems all use square or half of a square to position and render glyphs), CJK fonts are usually designed with equal width, even for punctuations. This is really bad: while typesetting, they do not take up same space. So my idea is to convert the punctuation glyphs' bounding box information into TFM width parameters (leave a little space at left and right), so the CJK typesetting problem is reduced to Latin typesetting problems. We can also position the glyph at the begin or end of the line close to the margin (or even calculate the exact space for margin kerning). btw, we prefer typesetting Chinese document like this: http://jjgod.org/docs/random/yt.pdf This is a document produced using XeTeX and xeCJK package typeset by Jiang Jiang. All the glue/penalty rules are carefully optimized by the people from local TeX community, although not using the bounding box information (impossible to get from XeTeX). Yue Wang ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________