Epub woes

Epub woes

[Bill Meahan]

I tried to generate an epub document using ConTeXt following the recipe 
on the wiki. Didn't work. So, I tried running the export-example.tex 
file that comes with the distribution, unmodified. Same bad results.

     Cover is not generated
     TOC is not generated (though it is noted this might be the state of 
the export)
     Sectioning doesn't happen.
     Paragraphing doesn't happen.
     The resultant epub file cannot even be opened with FBReader.

Importing the epub into Sigil shows one big blob of text, with only the 
between word spacing that's present in the source file. The \quotation{} 
markup did get turned into quotation marks, chapter numbers were 
generated and the rest of the markup was stripped out.

Same behavior with both the TeXLive 2012 version of ConTeXt and a quite 
recent beta.

Up-to-date Ubuntu 12.04

Linux Escherton 3.2.0-32-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Sep 26 21:32:50 UTC 
2012 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux

What am I doing wrong?

-- 
Bill Meahan
Westland, Michigan USA

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Re: Epub woes

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 15.11.2012 um 19:58 schrieb Bill Meahan <subscribed_lists@meahan.net>:

> I tried to generate an epub document using ConTeXt following the recipe on the wiki. Didn't work. So, I tried running the export-example.tex file that comes with the distribution, unmodified. Same bad results.
> 
>    Cover is not generated
>    TOC is not generated (though it is noted this might be the state of the export)
>    Sectioning doesn't happen.
>    Paragraphing doesn't happen.
>    The resultant epub file cannot even be opened with FBReader.
> 
> Importing the epub into Sigil shows one big blob of text, with only the between word spacing that's present in the source file. The \quotation{} markup did get turned into quotation marks, chapter numbers were generated and the rest of the markup was stripped out.
> 
> Same behavior with both the TeXLive 2012 version of ConTeXt and a quite recent beta.
> 
> Up-to-date Ubuntu 12.04
> 
> Linux Escherton 3.2.0-32-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Sep 26 21:32:50 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
> 
> What am I doing wrong?

You have to tag paragraphs with

\startparagraph
…
\stopparagraph

which are converted to <p> and </p> otherwise you get <br/> between paragraphs.

Wolfgang
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Re: Epub woes

[Bill Meahan]

On 11/15/2012 02:24 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> You have to tag paragraphs with
>
> \startparagraph
> …
> \stopparagraph
>
> which are converted to <p> and </p> otherwise you get <br/> between paragraphs.
>
> Wolfgang
>

Oh, my! I'll have to go back and change hundreds of paragraphs! :(

What about the chapter headings, mucked up metadata &c? I am using 
\startchapter..\stopchapter already.

-- 
Bill Meahan
Westland, Michigan USA

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Re: Epub woes

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia 2012-11-15, o godz. 13:58:29
Bill Meahan <subscribed_lists@meahan.net> napisał(a):

> I tried to generate an epub document using ConTeXt following the
> recipe on the wiki. Didn't work. So, I tried running the
> export-example.tex file that comes with the distribution, unmodified.
> Same bad results.
> 
>      Cover is not generated
>      TOC is not generated (though it is noted this might be the state
> of the export)
>      Sectioning doesn't happen.
>      Paragraphing doesn't happen.
>      The resultant epub file cannot even be opened with FBReader.
> 
> Importing the epub into Sigil shows one big blob of text, with only
> the between word spacing that's present in the source file. The
> \quotation{} markup did get turned into quotation marks, chapter
> numbers were generated and the rest of the markup was stripped out.
> 
> Same behavior with both the TeXLive 2012 version of ConTeXt and a
> quite recent beta.
> 
> Up-to-date Ubuntu 12.04
> 
> Linux Escherton 3.2.0-32-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Sep 26 21:32:50
> UTC 2012 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 

http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20120809.130943.604f5b22.en.html

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Adam Mickiewicz University
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Re: Epub woes

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012, Bill Meahan wrote:

> I tried to generate an epub document using ConTeXt following the recipe on 
> the wiki. Didn't work. So, I tried running the export-example.tex file that 
> comes with the distribution, unmodified. Same bad results.
>
>    Cover is not generated
>    TOC is not generated (though it is noted this might be the state of the 
> export)
>    Sectioning doesn't happen.
>    Paragraphing doesn't happen.
>    The resultant epub file cannot even be opened with FBReader.
>
> Importing the epub into Sigil shows one big blob of text, with only the 
> between word spacing that's present in the source file. The \quotation{} 
> markup did get turned into quotation marks, chapter numbers were generated 
> and the rest of the markup was stripped out.
>
> Same behavior with both the TeXLive 2012 version of ConTeXt and a quite 
> recent beta.
>
> What am I doing wrong?

Have you considered using pandoc to generate epub?

If your text is relatively simple (no multiline math, no fancy image 
scaling, no complicated tables, etc.), then Markdown is a reasonable input 
format. You can use pandoc to translate the text to multiple output 
formats (including ConTeXt).

In general, I have found pandoc's XHTML export to be more predictable than 
that of ConTeXt. I have used pandoc's epub export only for short articles, 
but from what I remember, it does handle cover images and toc correctly.

Aditya
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Re: Epub woes

[Bill Meahan]

On 11/15/2012 07:13 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>
> Have you considered using pandoc to generate epub?
>
> If your text is relatively simple (no multiline math, no fancy image 
> scaling, no complicated tables, etc.), then Markdown is a reasonable 
> input format. You can use pandoc to translate the text to multiple 
> output formats (including ConTeXt).
>
> In general, I have found pandoc's XHTML export to be more predictable 
> than that of ConTeXt. I have used pandoc's epub export only for short 
> articles, but from what I remember, it does handle cover images and 
> toc correctly.
>
> Aditya
> __
Nice idea Aditya but in this particular case it won't suffice.

I'm working on a rather long novel, not a technical document, and my 
/primary/ target electronic format is PDF. That PDF can be distributed 
electronically or submitted directly to a printer. In the current 
market, however, so many people want to read books on their smartphone, 
dedicated ebook reader or tablet an author really limits their market if 
they don't distribute an ebook version.

Of course, the two primary ebook formats (in terms of market) are epub 
and Kindle which is easy to generate from an epub. Sticking to ConTeXt 
allows me to generate PDF, Process PDF and epub from a single source. I 
can easily touch up the epub in Sigil if I need to.

For this kind of "document," typography and excellent typesetting are 
extremely important (in the printed/PDF version, anyway). ConTeXt gives 
me that.

I'll keep pandoc in mind for some other documents, though. Thanks for 
the lead.

-- 
Bill Meahan
Westland, Michigan USA

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Re: Epub woes

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012, Bill Meahan wrote:

> On 11/15/2012 07:13 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>> 
>> Have you considered using pandoc to generate epub?
>> 
>> If your text is relatively simple (no multiline math, no fancy image 
>> scaling, no complicated tables, etc.), then Markdown is a reasonable input 
>> format. You can use pandoc to translate the text to multiple output formats 
>> (including ConTeXt).
>> 
>> In general, I have found pandoc's XHTML export to be more predictable than 
>> that of ConTeXt. I have used pandoc's epub export only for short articles, 
>> but from what I remember, it does handle cover images and toc correctly.
>> 
>> Aditya
>> __
> Nice idea Aditya but in this particular case it won't suffice.
>
> I'm working on a rather long novel, not a technical document, and my 
> /primary/ target electronic format is PDF. That PDF can be distributed 
> electronically or submitted directly to a printer. In the current market, 
> however, so many people want to read books on their smartphone, dedicated 
> ebook reader or tablet an author really limits their market if they don't 
> distribute an ebook version.
>
> Of course, the two primary ebook formats (in terms of market) are epub and 
> Kindle which is easy to generate from an epub. Sticking to ConTeXt allows me 
> to generate PDF, Process PDF and epub from a single source. I can easily 
> touch up the epub in Sigil if I need to.
>
> For this kind of "document," typography and excellent typesetting are 
> extremely important (in the printed/PDF version, anyway). ConTeXt gives me 
> that.

Pandoc does generate ConTeXt output as well, which you can then process 
the usual way to generate pdf.

The advantage of pandoc is that **in addition** to latex/context output, 
you can generate docbook/epub/html/doc/troff/ and other output formats as 
well.

Aditya
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Re: Epub woes

[Andy Thomas]

Please try the following example:

-- start code --

\setupbackend[export=yes,xhtml=test_00.xhtml]

\mainlanguage[de]
\language[de]

\setupexport
   [title={A nice book},
    author={Andy Tom},
    firstpage={huhn.jpg},
   ]



\starttext
Hello world!
\stoptext


-- end code --

The firstpage export value (huhn.jpg) is your cover image. Please put huhn.jpg or something else in the same directory as your tex file. I named the tex=file test_00.tex in my case.

After compiling with the latest context, you can run 'mtxrun --script epub --make test_00.specification' to generate the epub file.

Please note two more things: 
(1) The mtx-epub script was broken a couple of days ago. Well not actually broken, but somehow an old version sneaked in. If the author names and such do not get exported into the epub, this might as well be the case for you. The latest one (ver: 2012.11.14 11:37 MKIV  fmt: 2012.11.16) works fine again. 
(2) Calibre and other readers as well as e.g. the ipad have some nasty caching feature. In case you change little things and try to reload the same book in your reader, it might still show the old one from the cache. I found, that deleting the 'old' book first works most of the times.

I just started working on the epub output of my lecture notes again, since there were no readers able to output math until 2 weeks ago.

If I find some time later, I will update the epub page in the wiki.

I hope that helps.
 
Andy

On Nov 15, 2012, at 7:58 PM, Bill Meahan wrote:

> I tried to generate an epub document using ConTeXt following the recipe on the wiki. Didn't work. So, I tried running the export-example.tex file that comes with the distribution, unmodified. Same bad results.
> 
>    Cover is not generated
>    TOC is not generated (though it is noted this might be the state of the export)
>    Sectioning doesn't happen.
>    Paragraphing doesn't happen.
>    The resultant epub file cannot even be opened with FBReader.
> 
> Importing the epub into Sigil shows one big blob of text, with only the between word spacing that's present in the source file. The \quotation{} markup did get turned into quotation marks, chapter numbers were generated and the rest of the markup was stripped out.
> 
> Same behavior with both the TeXLive 2012 version of ConTeXt and a quite recent beta.
> 
> Up-to-date Ubuntu 12.04
> 
> Linux Escherton 3.2.0-32-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Sep 26 21:32:50 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> -- 
> Bill Meahan
> Westland, Michigan USA
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: Epub woes

[luigi scarso]

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On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 7:49 AM, Andy Thomas <andythomas@web.de> wrote:

>
>
>
> I just started working on the epub output of my lecture notes again, since
> there were no readers able to output math until 2 weeks ago.
>
Is there any reader able to read mathml ?

-- 
luigi

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Re: Epub woes

[Andy Thomas]

Supposedly. I did not try it yet.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5321

Andy

On Nov 16, 2012, at 8:13 AM, luigi scarso wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 7:49 AM, Andy Thomas <andythomas@web.de> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I just started working on the epub output of my lecture notes again, since there were no readers able to output math until 2 weeks ago.
> Is there any reader able to read mathml ?
> 
> -- 
> luigi
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: Epub woes

[Keith J. Schultz]

Hi All,

First off, I do not work with ConTexT, but with Lu(La)TeX.
I follow this list looking for pointers.

The way I understand how ConTexT produces output for
epubs is that it just creates HTML.

If ConTexT (or LuaTex) is to produce output for use in epubs
it should map the ConTexT structures to html and the epub format.

That is, it should produce separate files for each chapter.
Furthermore, it should be able to create files for the spine, ncx, css,
and cover page, etc automatically.  This with reduce the amount of 
postprocessing Considerable.

Furthermore, the method could be design to not only epub, but a 
mobi format.

I have just started out on my own ideas for a Lau(La)Tex way of using
it for the creation of ebooks and pdfs from the same source.

Just my two cents, worth. 

Sorry, if I am creating noise here.

regards
	Keith.
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Re: Epub woes

[Bill Meahan]

On 11/15/2012 11:17 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>
> Pandoc does generate ConTeXt output as well, which you can then 
> process the usual way to generate pdf.
>
> The advantage of pandoc is that **in addition** to latex/context 
> output, you can generate docbook/epub/html/doc/troff/ and other output 
> formats as well.
>
> Aditya

I'm installing pandoc now. Looks pretty interesting. I suppose it's time 
I learned (extended) Markdown anyway. Thank goodness "emacs has a mode 
for that." :)

Thanks for the info!

-- 
Bill Meahan
Westland, Michigan USA

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Re: Epub woes

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012, Bill Meahan wrote:

> On 11/15/2012 11:17 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>> 
>> Pandoc does generate ConTeXt output as well, which you can then process the 
>> usual way to generate pdf.
>> 
>> The advantage of pandoc is that **in addition** to latex/context output, 
>> you can generate docbook/epub/html/doc/troff/ and other output formats as 
>> well.
>> 
>> Aditya
>
> I'm installing pandoc now. Looks pretty interesting. I suppose it's time I 
> learned (extended) Markdown anyway. Thank goodness "emacs has a mode for 
> that." :)

If you are using emacs, keep an eye for the org mode reader in pandoc.
https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/issues/476

Aditya
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Re: Epub woes

[Zenlima]

> Is there any reader able to read mathml ?

Try lucifox (is a part of lucifox addon for firefox)

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Re: Epub woes

[Zenlima]

> Try lucifox (is a part of lucifox addon for firefox)

arg.. to late.. try lucidor as a part of lucifox... :-D
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Re: Epub woes

[Bill Meahan]

On 11/16/2012 02:13 AM, luigi scarso wrote:
>
>     I just started working on the epub output of my lecture notes
>     again, since there were no readers able to output math until 2
>     weeks ago.
>
> Is there any reader able to read mathml ?
>
> -- 
> luigi
>
>

If you use Google Chrome (Chromium), you can get Readium from the Google 
Web Store. It's the IPDF's reference implementation of the epub3 
standard including MathML

-- 
Bill Meahan
Westland, Michigan USA

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Re: Epub woes

[luigi scarso]

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On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 12:41 AM, Bill Meahan
<subscribed_lists@meahan.net>wrote:

> On 11/16/2012 02:13 AM, luigi scarso wrote:
>
>>
>>     I just started working on the epub output of my lecture notes
>>     again, since there were no readers able to output math until 2
>>     weeks ago.
>>
>> Is there any reader able to read mathml ?
>>
>> --
>> luigi
>>
>>
>>
> If you use Google Chrome (Chromium), you can get Readium from the Google
> Web Store. It's the IPDF's reference implementation of the epub3 standard
> including MathML
>
> IDPF'reference
( IPDF is the output of the new iTEX from Knuth, see
http://tug.org/TUGboat/tb31-2/tb98knut.pdf)

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Re: Epub woes

[Alan BRASLAU]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 08:08:56 +0100
luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com> wrote:

> ( IPDF is the output of the new iTEX from Knuth, see
> http://tug.org/TUGboat/tb31-2/tb98knut.pdf)

(The beginning sounds a bit like a description of ConTeXt!)

Earlier, I believe you shared the video with us!

Alan
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Re: Epub woes

[Bill Meahan]

On 11/17/2012 02:08 AM, luigi scarso wrote:
> IDPF'reference
> ( IPDF is the output of the new iTEX from Knuth, see 
> http://tug.org/TUGboat/tb31-2/tb98knut.pdf)
>
>
>


TYPO ALERT!  TYPO ALERT!  TYPO ALERT!


That should have been *IDPF* (International Digital Publishing Forum) 
which is the group that defines the epub standard.

Some day I'm goint to learn how to tpye.  ;)

-- 
Bill Meahan
Westland, Michigan USA

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Re: Epub woes

[luigi scarso]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 568 bytes --]

On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Bill Meahan <subscribed_lists@meahan.net>wrote:

> On 11/17/2012 02:08 AM, luigi scarso wrote:
>
>> IDPF'reference
>> ( IPDF is the output of the new iTEX from Knuth, see
>> http://tug.org/TUGboat/tb31-2/**tb98knut.pdf<http://tug.org/TUGboat/tb31-2/tb98knut.pdf>
>> )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> TYPO ALERT!  TYPO ALERT!  TYPO ALERT!
>
>
> That should have been *IDPF* (International Digital Publishing Forum)
> which is the group that defines the epub standard.
>
> Some day I'm goint to learn how to tpye.  ;)
>
> :-)
Anyway thank for the link.

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Re: EPUB woes

[Jan Tosovsky]

On 2013-11-20 Bill Meahan wrote:
> On 11/20/2013 8:59 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> >
> > As far as ConTeXt is concerned, you can process the above XML quite
> > easily. Come to think of it, it may be a useful to provide a module
> > that maps HTML5 to PDF.
> >
> 
> I would vote for that approach. It is pretty much analogous to what I
> have decided to do. I'm doing my actual writing in HTML. creating CSS
> for ebooks and ConTeXt environment files for PDF.
> ...
> 
> My needs are much simpler than the majority of people on this list. I
> have no need for math, no need for indexes, no need for bibliographies,
> footnotes or citations. BUT I want really top-notch visual output
> whether in PDF or printed on dead trees. 

This is exactly my situation ;-)

Two outputs ideally from the same data. But thanks to my XML background and
experience in the single source publishing it was clear from the very
beginning that I need a well structured and also semantically rich
vocabulary like DocBook.

Generating ePub3 outputs is very straighforward (things gets complicated
when you need customize it). It is same for PDF outputs. These outputs are
generated using XSL-FO processors. But to be honest, outputs are not so
visually appealing as they lack many microtypographic features (expansion,
hanging punctuation etc).

This is the reason why I do a noise here in this forum.

There is a db-context tool (set of XSLT stylesheets):
http://dblatex.sourceforge.net/releases/download.html

It can convert DocBook XML into the ConTeXt source. I do some direct (local)
changes into it to avoid manual post-processing (which gets lost with every
generating - I still do some corrections in my source).

This solution requires some experience in XML processing, but I encourage
anybody who need multiple outputs from a single data to investigate it a
bit. It is so powerfull ;-)

Jan



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Re: EPUB woes

[Keith J. Schultz]

Hi,

You do not understand my point. I one uses XML why use ConTeXt.
Yet, I one wants to use ConTeXt and do ebooks and they have experience why force them
to XML. 

As I stated the idea use ConTeXt to do the markup with commands that will ensure proper input of
HTML5  for making ebooks that will render well on MOST ereaders and at the same time be typeset
by ConTeXt to good quality PDF! 

ereaders need the html code to adhere to special guidelines in order to create a high quality display for the ebook.
That is why special commands are needed to restirct the features available! 

regards
	Keith.

Am 20.11.2013 um 14:59 schrieb Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu>:

[snip, snip]
> 
> To me, the biggest advantage of a TeX based system is the ease of extensibility. If you want to restrict to a specific subset, then might as well use XML:
> 
> <document>
> <book>
> <chapter>
> <paragraph leftmargin=20%>
> text
> </paragraph>
> </book>
> </document>
> 
> or using one of the existing XML schemas rather than inventing your own (perhaps even HTML5).
> 
> As far as ConTeXt is concerned, you can process the above XML quite easily. Come to think of it, it may be a useful to provide a module that
> maps HTML5 to PDF.
> 
> Aditya___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: EPUB woes

[Bill Meahan]

On 11/20/2013 8:59 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>
> As far as ConTeXt is concerned, you can process the above XML quite 
> easily. Come to think of it, it may be a useful to provide a module that
> maps HTML5 to PDF.
>
> Aditya

I would vote for that approach. It is pretty much analogous to what I 
have decided to do. I'm doing my actual writing in HTML. creating CSS 
for ebooks and ConTeXt environment files for PDF. I'll probably hack the 
html2latex Perl script to do the mapping. Pandoc will /not/ meet my 
needs because Markdown does not distinguish between emphasized text and 
italic text and Pandoc compels all other input markup to behave like 
Markdown. Textile would be perfect but only outputs HTML well. The 
RedCloth implementation does output LaTeX but ignores CSS-style classes 
applied to paragraphs et. al.

My needs are much simpler than the majority of people on this list. I 
have no need for math, no need for indexes, no need for bibliographies, 
footnotes or citations. BUT I want really top-notch visual output 
whether in PDF or printed on dead trees. The latter is usually the 
result of giving the printer process PDF files anyway so for the visuals 
I want, PDF is the common denominator and TeX (whether LaTeX or ConTeXt) 
is the most reasonable path, InDesign is not for poverty-stricken 
wretches like me.

Unfortunately (for many reasons) the market for the stuff I write is 
hell-bent to replace printed books and even replace high-quality 
electronic presentation with formats in which the reader chooses almost 
everything, regardless of whether it compliments the text or not. EPUB 
(especially EPUB3) does appear to /want/ to provide 
author/designer-determined presentation but it can still be ignored or 
overridden by the reader. I don't want to  even imagine the visual 
discordance of reading something like /Jane Eyre/ with double-spaced 
Comic Sans but if the e-reader allows it....

I'll crawl back under my rock, now.

-- 
Bill Meahan, Westland, Michigan

  
  

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Re: EPUB woes

[Aditya Mahajan]

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On Wed, 20 Nov 2013, Keith J. Schultz wrote:

> 	\usemodule[ebook]
>
> 	\setupcss[…]{…}% see comment #1
>
> 	\setupmapping[…]{…} % used for when author has his/her own ideas #2
>
> 	%normal ConTeXt sets see comment #3
>
> 	% possibly set a mode or set externally
>
> 	\starttext
> 		\startebook
> 			\chapter… %see comment #4
> 				\startparagraph{leftmargin=20%, …] % see comment #5
> 				% text
> 				\stopparagraph
> 				\starttable…
> 				\stoptable
> 				…
>                \stopebook
> 	\stoptext

To me, the biggest advantage of a TeX based system is the ease of 
extensibility. If you want to restrict to a specific subset, then might as 
well use XML:

<document>
<book>
<chapter>
<paragraph leftmargin=20%>
  text
</paragraph>
</book>
</document>

or using one of the existing XML schemas rather than inventing your own 
(perhaps even HTML5).

As far as ConTeXt is concerned, you can process the above XML quite 
easily. Come to think of it, it may be a useful to provide a module that
maps HTML5 to PDF.

Aditya

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Re: EPUB woes

[Keith J. Schultz]

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Hi Mica,

Am 19.11.2013 um 22:39 schrieb Mica Semrick <paperdigits@gmail.com>:

> Keith,
> 
> Maybe you should explore an XML format that can be transformed directly to epub. You'd also be able to write a style sheet with ConTeXt that would out put a PDF as well. I think TEI-Lite is a good starting point.
	While XML is one approach and using XML-Styles and DocBook I could even do without ConTeXt completely. Yet, from a general
	user standpoint this way of marking up ebooks is tedious. XML has become the standard for storing all kinds of data. A a storage
	format it is great and allows for conversion to other formats for ages to come. YET, one has to know what XML is how to use it
	how to make tools to process it. That is something that I would not like to enforce on the average author. 
> 
> Since you can make your own commands in ConTeXt, it will never be able to intelligently map all commands on to simple HTML.
	How true. That is the problem with any system that is and can handle more complex structures than a simpler system.
	That is why any module geared to creating ebooks has to only allow what is needed and can be done in any EREADER, 
	(notice I wrote reader not / Book or EPub!)

	My Idea is to use the Lua capabilities of ConTeXt to get the job done.
	I will try to exemplify.

	suggest MWE:
	\usemodule[ebook]

	\setupcss[…]{…}% see comment #1
	
	\setupmapping[…]{…} % used for when author has his/her own ideas #2

	%normal ConTeXt sets see comment #3

	% possibly set a mode or set externally
	
	\starttext
		\startebook
			\chapter… %see comment #4
				\startparagraph{leftmargin=20%, …] % see comment #5
				% text
				\stopparagraph
				\starttable…
				\stoptable
				…
                \stopebook
	\stoptext

OK, this pretty much looks like standard ConTeXt
Comments:
	1) Here is where the author can define the CSS he wants
	    It will integrated into the CSS used for the ebook

	2) The author can setup how the ebook commands are mapped to
	     ConTeXt commands

	3) Here are setups for the  NORMAL ConTeXt commands for producing PDFs

	4)  if mode is PDF command is mapped to normal ConTeXt injected into stream
	     if mode ebook, gather information for spine, etc, start a new file for the chapter
	     start writing to this file as HTML 

	5)  if in mode PDF map to ConTeXt command, whereby the leftmargin is used as the
             basis for the calculation .2\textwidth or if you wish

This approach is ebook centric. Allows for rapid prototyping and proofing of the ebook using a PDF
This approach alleviates the need to attempt to dumb down ConTeXt markup. 
Through the use mappings te author has the possibility of producing a higher quality PDF if wanted.
The system could be designed to produce a file with the ConTeXt commands that can be edited for even
higher quality PDFs of printed versions. 

There could be even XML or whatever mode in the ebook module.

Another advantage would be is that we are a module that will produce HTML out of a ConTeXt styled syntax
that can be directly converted to a PDF directly, without worrying about lose of formatting or using tools over
which features are supported or not. This is a straight forward approach.

True, enough, ConTeXt is not designed to be a  HTML editor. 

It is a matter of design policy! The philosophy of going from TeX/ConTeXt centric to HTML is IMHO far inferior than
going from HTML/ebook centric to ConTeXt. One can always make things more intricate/complicated and taking something
complicated and morphing onto a less sophisticated system.

What one has to keep in mind is that ConTeXt "renders" to PDF and that is what is not needed when producing a ebook.
The rendering is done by the ereader. ConTeXt does have any information about screen size or  orientation. ConTeXt is built upon 
a page morphology. ebooks are not! So any decent approach has to keep this in mind.

regards
	Keith.

> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Keith J. Schultz <schultzk@uni-trier.de> wrote:
> 
> Am 18.11.2013 um 16:33 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
> 
>> On 11/18/2013 4:11 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
>>> Hi Hans,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Am 18.11.2013 um 13:21 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>>> 
>>>> On 11/18/2013 10:00 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 	2) Now, what a EPub-READER must implement to handle is very
>>>>> 	     little. There are HARDLY ANY provisions that a certified EPuB-READER has
>>>>>              to implement any particular engine or features therein to display/render
>>>>> 	     the information contain in the EPub-file/wrapper.
>>>> 
>>>> right, and I'm not going to waste time on it till i have a decent ebook reader that behaves well
>>> 	The point you are missing is that the ereaders are behaving well. They are following the epub
>>>          standard, and that to the letter of the standard. The problem is that the standard does not
>>> 	enforce any particular implementation. If you look at the slow progress of the standard that
>>> 	actually requires a full implementation of the HTML5 standard. That  wait will very long.
>> 
>> sure, and every time i see an epub novel i realize that for something like that one really can stick to rather dumb html ... the point is that one cannot expect context to output simple everywhere accepted html from complex rendered input ...
> 	
> I agree fully. But, Since there are those that wish to produce epubs aka ebooks, they should not be doing complex
> 	layout. One can always go from simple to complicated in needed, if there were commands dedicated to epub/ebooks/html.
> 	As I had pointed out in my last post below.
> 
>> 
>>> 	Furthermore, ereaders are made by companies more interested in profits than spending a few Euros
>>> 	more to put decent HTML engines into their readers. Why they do not do that is beyond me!
>>>> 
>>>>>> 3. Modify the way in which ConTeXt generates the XML files. Ideally, I should be able to write something like
>>>>> 	Would be nice if there where commands in ConTeXt or a module for defining what should go into the CSS and a
>>>>> 	mode "epub" where the ConTeXt commands are converted to suitible HTML5 structures that are suitiable for
>>>>> 	most ereaders.
>>>>> 		Features:
>>>>>                        1) margins in percentages
>>>>>                        2) font sizes based on em
>>>>> 	               3) a new file for every chapter optional for sections user defined
>>>>> 	Just a few. Lots more can be found in any decent documentation on writing ebooks.
>>>> 
>>>> context outputs xml and as a bonus provides a css too ... one can always convert that xml to his/her ebooks liking .. maybe at some point the mtx-epub script will do that
>>> 
>>> 	I always to like to look at programming as modular and would think that a epub/ebook module would be nice that maps
>>> 	there are commands for layingout ebooks. these commands can then be mapped back to standard context commands.
>> 
>> in that case code in xml and either processit by context or transform it into something ebooks can render
>> 
>>> 	For some interested in producing a epub then can use the conventions for producing ebooks and ConTeXt can provide the
>>> 	math conversions to regular page dimensions used in PDFs for proofing or creating a printed version. It would also make the
>>> 	creation of EPubs from ConTeXt a simple parsing exercise.
>> 
>> so far i had no projects where epub was needes so it has a low priority and i still read paper books (or when i would have ebooks i wouldn't need to render them) ... pdfs views quite well on e.g. nexus 7 devices and i assume the upcoming sony high res ebook will also do pdf well
> 
> 	Well I did start the discussion. Just offer my 2 Euro cents worth. Especially, since it comes up every now and then.
> 	Furthermore, I there was a simple way to create epubs/books with ConTeXt more would use this feature. 
> 	
> 	I have used up enough of or time.
> 
> regards
> 	Keith.
> 
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: EPUB woes

[Mica Semrick]

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Keith,

Maybe you should explore an XML format that can be transformed directly to
epub. You'd also be able to write a style sheet with ConTeXt that would out
put a PDF as well. I think TEI-Lite is a good starting point.

Since you can make your own commands in ConTeXt, it will never be able to
intelligently map all commands on to simple HTML.


On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Keith J. Schultz <schultzk@uni-trier.de>wrote:

>
> Am 18.11.2013 um 16:33 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>
> On 11/18/2013 4:11 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
>
> Hi Hans,
>
>
> Am 18.11.2013 um 13:21 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>
> On 11/18/2013 10:00 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
>
> 2) Now, what a EPub-READER must implement to handle is very
>      little. There are HARDLY ANY provisions that a certified EPuB-READER
> has
>              to implement any particular engine or features therein to
> display/render
>      the information contain in the EPub-file/wrapper.
>
>
> right, and I'm not going to waste time on it till i have a decent ebook
> reader that behaves well
>
> The point you are missing is that the ereaders are behaving well. They are
> following the epub
>          standard, and that to the letter of the standard. The problem is
> that the standard does not
> enforce any particular implementation. If you look at the slow progress of
> the standard that
> actually requires a full implementation of the HTML5 standard. That  wait
> will very long.
>
>
> sure, and every time i see an epub novel i realize that for something like
> that one really can stick to rather dumb html ... the point is that one
> cannot expect context to output simple everywhere accepted html from
> complex rendered input ...
>
> I agree fully. But, Since there are those that wish to produce epubs aka
> ebooks, they should not be doing complex
> layout. One can always go from simple to complicated in needed, if there
> were commands dedicated to epub/ebooks/html.
> As I had pointed out in my last post below.
>
>
> Furthermore, ereaders are made by companies more interested in profits
> than spending a few Euros
> more to put decent HTML engines into their readers. Why they do not do
> that is beyond me!
>
>
> 3. Modify the way in which ConTeXt generates the XML files. Ideally, I
> should be able to write something like
>
> Would be nice if there where commands in ConTeXt or a module for defining
> what should go into the CSS and a
> mode "epub" where the ConTeXt commands are converted to suitible HTML5
> structures that are suitiable for
> most ereaders.
>  Features:
>                        1) margins in percentages
>                        2) font sizes based on em
>                3) a new file for every chapter optional for sections user
> defined
> Just a few. Lots more can be found in any decent documentation on writing
> ebooks.
>
>
> context outputs xml and as a bonus provides a css too ... one can always
> convert that xml to his/her ebooks liking .. maybe at some point the
> mtx-epub script will do that
>
>
> I always to like to look at programming as modular and would think that a
> epub/ebook module would be nice that maps
> there are commands for layingout ebooks. these commands can then be mapped
> back to standard context commands.
>
>
> in that case code in xml and either processit by context or transform it
> into something ebooks can render
>
> For some interested in producing a epub then can use the conventions for
> producing ebooks and ConTeXt can provide the
> math conversions to regular page dimensions used in PDFs for proofing or
> creating a printed version. It would also make the
> creation of EPubs from ConTeXt a simple parsing exercise.
>
>
> so far i had no projects where epub was needes so it has a low priority
> and i still read paper books (or when i would have ebooks i wouldn't need
> to render them) ... pdfs views quite well on e.g. nexus 7 devices and i
> assume the upcoming sony high res ebook will also do pdf well
>
> Well I did start the discussion. Just offer my 2 Euro cents worth.
> Especially, since it comes up every now and then.
> Furthermore, I there was a simple way to create epubs/books with ConTeXt
> more would use this feature.
>  I have used up enough of or time.
>
> regards
> Keith.
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: EPUB woes

[Keith J. Schultz]

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Am 18.11.2013 um 16:33 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:

> On 11/18/2013 4:11 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
>> Hi Hans,
>> 
>> 
>> Am 18.11.2013 um 13:21 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>> 
>>> On 11/18/2013 10:00 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 	2) Now, what a EPub-READER must implement to handle is very
>>>> 	     little. There are HARDLY ANY provisions that a certified EPuB-READER has
>>>>              to implement any particular engine or features therein to display/render
>>>> 	     the information contain in the EPub-file/wrapper.
>>> 
>>> right, and I'm not going to waste time on it till i have a decent ebook reader that behaves well
>> 	The point you are missing is that the ereaders are behaving well. They are following the epub
>>          standard, and that to the letter of the standard. The problem is that the standard does not
>> 	enforce any particular implementation. If you look at the slow progress of the standard that
>> 	actually requires a full implementation of the HTML5 standard. That  wait will very long.
> 
> sure, and every time i see an epub novel i realize that for something like that one really can stick to rather dumb html ... the point is that one cannot expect context to output simple everywhere accepted html from complex rendered input ...
	I agree fully. But, Since there are those that wish to produce epubs aka ebooks, they should not be doing complex
	layout. One can always go from simple to complicated in needed, if there were commands dedicated to epub/ebooks/html.
	As I had pointed out in my last post below.
> 
>> 	Furthermore, ereaders are made by companies more interested in profits than spending a few Euros
>> 	more to put decent HTML engines into their readers. Why they do not do that is beyond me!
>>> 
>>>>> 3. Modify the way in which ConTeXt generates the XML files. Ideally, I should be able to write something like
>>>> 	Would be nice if there where commands in ConTeXt or a module for defining what should go into the CSS and a
>>>> 	mode "epub" where the ConTeXt commands are converted to suitible HTML5 structures that are suitiable for
>>>> 	most ereaders.
>>>> 		Features:
>>>>                        1) margins in percentages
>>>>                        2) font sizes based on em
>>>> 	               3) a new file for every chapter optional for sections user defined
>>>> 	Just a few. Lots more can be found in any decent documentation on writing ebooks.
>>> 
>>> context outputs xml and as a bonus provides a css too ... one can always convert that xml to his/her ebooks liking .. maybe at some point the mtx-epub script will do that
>> 
>> 	I always to like to look at programming as modular and would think that a epub/ebook module would be nice that maps
>> 	there are commands for layingout ebooks. these commands can then be mapped back to standard context commands.
> 
> in that case code in xml and either processit by context or transform it into something ebooks can render
> 
>> 	For some interested in producing a epub then can use the conventions for producing ebooks and ConTeXt can provide the
>> 	math conversions to regular page dimensions used in PDFs for proofing or creating a printed version. It would also make the
>> 	creation of EPubs from ConTeXt a simple parsing exercise.
> 
> so far i had no projects where epub was needes so it has a low priority and i still read paper books (or when i would have ebooks i wouldn't need to render them) ... pdfs views quite well on e.g. nexus 7 devices and i assume the upcoming sony high res ebook will also do pdf well
	Well I did start the discussion. Just offer my 2 Euro cents worth. Especially, since it comes up every now and then.
	Furthermore, I there was a simple way to create epubs/books with ConTeXt more would use this feature. 
	
	I have used up enough of or time.

regards
	Keith.



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Re: EPUB woes

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/18/2013 4:11 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
> Hi Hans,
>
>
> Am 18.11.2013 um 13:21 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
>
>> On 11/18/2013 10:00 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
>>
>>> 	2) Now, what a EPub-READER must implement to handle is very
>>> 	     little. There are HARDLY ANY provisions that a certified EPuB-READER has
>>>               to implement any particular engine or features therein to display/render
>>> 	     the information contain in the EPub-file/wrapper.
>>
>> right, and I'm not going to waste time on it till i have a decent ebook reader that behaves well
> 	The point you are missing is that the ereaders are behaving well. They are following the epub
>           standard, and that to the letter of the standard. The problem is that the standard does not
> 	enforce any particular implementation. If you look at the slow progress of the standard that
> 	actually requires a full implementation of the HTML5 standard. That  wait will very long.

sure, and every time i see an epub novel i realize that for something 
like that one really can stick to rather dumb html ... the point is that 
one cannot expect context to output simple everywhere accepted html from 
complex rendered input ...

> 	Furthermore, ereaders are made by companies more interested in profits than spending a few Euros
> 	more to put decent HTML engines into their readers. Why they do not do that is beyond me!
>>
>>>> 3. Modify the way in which ConTeXt generates the XML files. Ideally, I should be able to write something like
>>> 	Would be nice if there where commands in ConTeXt or a module for defining what should go into the CSS and a
>>> 	mode "epub" where the ConTeXt commands are converted to suitible HTML5 structures that are suitiable for
>>> 	most ereaders.
>>> 		Features:
>>>                         1) margins in percentages
>>>                         2) font sizes based on em
>>> 	               3) a new file for every chapter optional for sections user defined
>>> 	Just a few. Lots more can be found in any decent documentation on writing ebooks.
>>
>> context outputs xml and as a bonus provides a css too ... one can always convert that xml to his/her ebooks liking .. maybe at some point the mtx-epub script will do that
>
> 	I always to like to look at programming as modular and would think that a epub/ebook module would be nice that maps
> 	there are commands for layingout ebooks. these commands can then be mapped back to standard context commands.

in that case code in xml and either processit by context or transform it 
into something ebooks can render

> 	For some interested in producing a epub then can use the conventions for producing ebooks and ConTeXt can provide the
> 	math conversions to regular page dimensions used in PDFs for proofing or creating a printed version. It would also make the
> 	creation of EPubs from ConTeXt a simple parsing exercise.

so far i had no projects where epub was needes so it has a low priority 
and i still read paper books (or when i would have ebooks i wouldn't 
need to render them) ... pdfs views quite well on e.g. nexus 7 devices 
and i assume the upcoming sony high res ebook will also do pdf well

concerning modular: you can consider the context export to be modular .. 
convertable

Hans

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: EPUB woes

[Keith J. Schultz]

Hi Hans,


Am 18.11.2013 um 13:21 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:

> On 11/18/2013 10:00 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
> 
>> 	2) Now, what a EPub-READER must implement to handle is very
>> 	     little. There are HARDLY ANY provisions that a certified EPuB-READER has
>>              to implement any particular engine or features therein to display/render
>> 	     the information contain in the EPub-file/wrapper.
> 
> right, and I'm not going to waste time on it till i have a decent ebook reader that behaves well
	The point you are missing is that the ereaders are behaving well. They are following the epub 
         standard, and that to the letter of the standard. The problem is that the standard does not 
	enforce any particular implementation. If you look at the slow progress of the standard that 
	actually requires a full implementation of the HTML5 standard. That  wait will very long.

	Furthermore, ereaders are made by companies more interested in profits than spending a few Euros
	more to put decent HTML engines into their readers. Why they do not do that is beyond me!
> 
>>> 3. Modify the way in which ConTeXt generates the XML files. Ideally, I should be able to write something like
>> 	Would be nice if there where commands in ConTeXt or a module for defining what should go into the CSS and a
>> 	mode "epub" where the ConTeXt commands are converted to suitible HTML5 structures that are suitiable for
>> 	most ereaders.
>> 		Features:
>>                        1) margins in percentages
>>                        2) font sizes based on em
>> 	               3) a new file for every chapter optional for sections user defined
>> 	Just a few. Lots more can be found in any decent documentation on writing ebooks.
> 
> context outputs xml and as a bonus provides a css too ... one can always convert that xml to his/her ebooks liking .. maybe at some point the mtx-epub script will do that

	I always to like to look at programming as modular and would think that a epub/ebook module would be nice that maps
	there are commands for layingout ebooks. these commands can then be mapped back to standard context commands.
	For some interested in producing a epub then can use the conventions for producing ebooks and ConTeXt can provide the
	math conversions to regular page dimensions used in PDFs for proofing or creating a printed version. It would also make the
	creation of EPubs from ConTeXt a simple parsing exercise.   

regards
	Keith.
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Re: EPUB woes

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/18/2013 10:00 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:

> 	2) Now, what a EPub-READER must implement to handle is very
> 	     little. There are HARDLY ANY provisions that a certified EPuB-READER has
>               to implement any particular engine or features therein to display/render
> 	     the information contain in the EPub-file/wrapper.

right, and I'm not going to waste time on it till i have a decent ebook 
reader that behaves well

>> 3. Modify the way in which ConTeXt generates the XML files. Ideally, I should be able to write something like
> 	Would be nice if there where commands in ConTeXt or a module for defining what should go into the CSS and a
> 	mode "epub" where the ConTeXt commands are converted to suitible HTML5 structures that are suitiable for
> 	most ereaders.
> 		Features:
>                         1) margins in percentages
>                         2) font sizes based on em
> 	               3) a new file for every chapter optional for sections user defined
> 	Just a few. Lots more can be found in any decent documentation on writing ebooks.

context outputs xml and as a bonus provides a css too ... one can always 
convert that xml to his/her ebooks liking .. maybe at some point the 
mtx-epub script will do that

Hans

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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: EPUB woes

[Keith J. Schultz]

Hi All,

I find that the ConTeXt approach to creating the EPub is flawed is a fundemental way!

NOT TECHNICALLY.

The EPub Standard is a big mess and if you really look at not a true standard in a
true sense.

Let me explain. 
	1) The file structure is well documented and properly defines
             the way a EPub file MUST contain and how file therein must
             be structure and listed. (notice that I use the word MUST)

	2) Now, what a EPub-READER must implement to handle is very
	     little. There are HARDLY ANY provisions that a certified EPuB-READER has
             to implement any particular engine or features therein to display/render
	     the information contain in the EPub-file/wrapper.

In other words it is simply a wrapper file format. and truly nothing more.
There is NO REQUIREMENT in the standard that perfectly valid xhtml or
HTML5 will be  properly displayed in a certified EPub Reader!

The standard has become more strict in recent years, yet still lacking.


Am 16.11.2013 um 18:37 schrieb Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu>:

[snip, snip]

> When you run `mtxrun --script epub --make test`, it just takes the files specificied in the "files" field, and zips them in as a epub file.
> 
> Now, in principle, any epub reader should support the any XHTML file; in practice, they only support the default XHTML tags. The XML+CSS file that ConTeXt generates are not handled correctly by most (all?) EPUB readers.
	Here is where my critic of ConTeXt approach grabs. What good is if one produces a perfectly correct EPub, yet hardly any EPub reader can
	handle. 
	I remember correctly, an EPub Reader need not implement the handling of xhtml inorder to be certified or, if you wish, adhere to the standard.
	The basic reason why xhtml is handled is because most html renders handle xhtml. 
	Yet, the standard only requires that very basic html features be implemented and the author is required to offer fallbacks incase features are not
         supported.

> So there are three options:
> 
> 1. Wait until the EPUB readers catch up. It took almost 10-15 years for the browsers to catch up with the HTML standards, and I don't have much hope for EPUB readers here. Last I checked, none of them supported even MATHML-2.
	Like I mentioned above a EPub reader is not REQUIRED to support it!
> 
> 2. Write a script (either using xmlproc, or using you favorite XML parser in your favorite language) that converts the XML generated by ConTeXt into a "standard" XHTML file. This is the easiest and the least time consuming alternative.
	AGAIN, as mentioned above there is no guarantee that it will be displayed properly.
	Support/export of HTML5 would seem to me to be a better option, but then the HTML5 standard is not
	complete and not fully supported by most newer ereaders, also.
> 
> 3. Modify the way in which ConTeXt generates the XML files. Ideally, I should be able to write something like
	Would be nice if there where commands in ConTeXt or a module for defining what should go into the CSS and a 
	mode "epub" where the ConTeXt commands are converted to suitible HTML5 structures that are suitiable for
	most ereaders. 
		Features: 
                       1) margins in percentages
                       2) font sizes based on em
	               3) a new file for every chapter optional for sections user defined
	Just a few. Lots more can be found in any decent documentation on writing ebooks.

	
regards
	Keith.

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Re: EPUB woes

[Keith J. Schultz]

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Am 16.11.2013 um 17:51 schrieb Bill Meahan <subscribed_lists@meahan.net>:

> On 11/16/2013 11:00 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
>> Hi Bill,
>> 
>> Using a PDF as a basis for creating an Epub ebook is actually a lost cause.
>> EPUB is a container format that just wraps around your PDF. I do not know of any
>> ereader that can actually adjust the formatting/layout of a pdf in any significantly
>> useful way. You are stuck with the formatting in the PDF.
>> 
>> For a EPUB-ebook to adjust properly you need to use HTML5 and CSS. Producing PDF an sticking it into a
>> EPUB or MOBI wrapper just does not make sense.
>> 
>> regards
>> 	Keith.
> 
> You are totally misreading what I wrote!
	Sorry.  But, from your original statement:
I have followed the steps on the wiki to the letter, using the export-example file provided with the standalone distribution. A PDF generated from the file is exactly what I would expect from an example. The generated epub, however, is useless - all the text is jammed together into one continuous block with no formatting whatsoever.

    I assumed that the PDF was be put in the EPub- wrapper! According to the EPub standard this can be done!
    I have to admit that I have not been following the progress done in ConTeXt for creating EPubs/eBooks.

    Others have answered, and explain what you need to do to get a possibly working EPub.
    See my comments in my replies to their posts.

regards
	Keith. 



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Re: EPUB woes

[Bill Meahan]

On 11/16/2013 12:37 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Bill Meahan wrote:
>
>> I would /expect/ to get a valid EPUB file, or so I'm lead to believe.
>>
>
> 1. Wait until the EPUB readers catch up. It took almost 10-15 years 
> for the browsers to catch up with the HTML standards, and I don't have 
> much hope for EPUB readers here. Last I checked, none of them 
> supported even MATHML-2.
>
> 2. Write a script (either using xmlproc, or using you favorite XML 
> parser in your favorite language) that converts the XML generated by 
> ConTeXt into a "standard" XHTML file. This is the easiest and the 
> least time consuming alternative.
>
> 3. Modify the way in which ConTeXt generates the XML files. Ideally, I 
> should be able to write something like
>
> ~~~
> \setupparagraph[tag=p, class=default]
> ~~~
>
> to tell context that \startparagraph ... \stopparagraph should 
> translate to `<p class="default"> ... </p>". Last I checked the code 
> that generates the XML file, there was no easy way to change the tags 
> and classes.
>
> I hope that the above description clarifies the situation.
>
> Aditya

Thanks for the clarification.

-- 
Bill Meahan, Westland, Michigan

  
   “Writing is like getting married. One should never
    commit oneself until one is amazed at one's luck.”

                                —Iris Murdoch

This message is digitally signed with an X.509 certificate
to prove it is from me and has not been altered since it was sent.

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Re: EPUB woes

[Aditya Mahajan]

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On Sat, 16 Nov 2013, Bill Meahan wrote:

> I would /expect/ to get a valid EPUB file, or so I'm lead to believe.
>
> At the moment, I'm simply trying it out using Hans' "export-example.tex" file 
> that comes as part of the standard ConTeXt distribution, either Standalone or 
> part of one of the other distributions. I haven't even opened the 
> export-example.tex file in an editor (yet) in this round of trials and I've 
> even run the script against it right in the ..../base/ directory where it is 
> found in the distribution so I don't understand why it is not producing a 
> valid EPUB. Once I've got that sorted out, I can try applying the lessons 
> learned to my own documents.

ConTeXt provides two types of exports. The first is an XML export. 
Consider a sample file:

~~~ {test.tex}
\setupbackend[export=yes]

\starttext
\startsection[title={This is a test}]
   \startparagraph
     Some random text
     \startitemize
       \item First
       \item Second
     \stopitemize
   \stopparagraph
\stopsection

\stoptext
~~~

Running `context test.tex` generates a `test.export` file that looks as 
follows:

~~~ {test.export}
<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8' standalone='yes' ?>

<!-- input filename   : test              -->
<!-- processing date  : Sat Nov 16 12:19:59 2013 -->
<!-- context version  : 2013.11.01 15:02  -->
<!-- exporter version : 0.30              -->


  <document language="en" file="test" date="Sat Nov 16 12:19:59 2013" 
context="2013.11.01 15:02" version="0.30" 
xmlns:m="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML">
   <section detail="section" location='aut:1'>
     <sectionnumber>1</sectionnumber>
    <sectiontitle>This is a test</sectiontitle>
    <sectioncontent>
       <paragraph>Some random text <itemgroup detail="itemize" 
symbol="1"><item><itemtag><m:math display="inline"><!-- begin m:mrow 
--><m:mo>•</m:mo><!-- end m:mrow 
--></m:math></itemtag><itemcontent>First</itemcontent></item> 
<item><itemtag><m:math display="inline"><!-- begin m:mrow 
--><m:mo>•</m:mo><!-- end m:mrow 
--></m:math></itemtag><itemcontent>Second</itemcontent></item></itemgroup></paragraph>
    </sectioncontent>
   </section>
  </document>
~~~

which is simply an XML representation of the document.

In prinicple, if one adds an appropriate CSS file with that XML, any 
recent browser will be able to display it. So, if you change the first 
line of `test.tex` to

~~~
\setupbackend[export=yes, xhtml=yes, css=yes]
~~~

and run `context test.tex`, you will get four additional files: 
`test.xhtml`, `test-styles.css`, `test-images.css`, and 
`test.specification`.

The `test.xhtml` file look as follows:

~~~{test.xhtml}
<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8' standalone='yes' ?>

<!-- input filename   : test              -->
<!-- processing date  : Sat Nov 16 12:22:58 2013 -->
<!-- context version  : 2013.11.01 15:02  -->
<!-- exporter version : 0.30              -->

<?xml-stylesheet type="text/css" href="test-styles.css"?>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/css" href="test-images.css"?>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/css" href="export-example.css"?>

  <document language="en" version="0.30" file="test" 
xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" 
xmlns:m="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" date="Sat Nov 16 12:22:58 
2013" context="2013.11.01 15:02">
   <xhtml:a name="aut_1"><section location="aut:1" detail="section">
     <sectionnumber>1</sectionnumber>
    <sectiontitle>This is a test</sectiontitle>
    <sectioncontent>
       <paragraph>Some random text <itemgroup symbol="1" 
detail="itemize"><item><itemtag><m:math display="inline"><!-- begin m:mrow 
--><m:mo>•</m:mo><!-- end m:mrow 
--></m:math></itemtag><itemcontent>First</itemcontent></item> 
<item><itemtag><m:math display="inline"><!-- begin m:mrow 
--><m:mo>•</m:mo><!-- end m:mrow 
--></m:math></itemtag><itemcontent>Second</itemcontent></item></itemgroup></paragraph>
    </sectioncontent>
   </section></xhtml:a>
  </document>
~~~

Notice that apart from the three lines specifying the CSS files, the rest 
of the document is the same as in XML export. The two css files, 
`test-styles.css` and `test-images.css` include the relevant code for the 
style modifications and images in the document. The css file 
`export-example.css` comes with the ConTeXt distribution and has the 
default values for most ConTeXt elements.

If you open the `test.xhtml` file in any browser, it will work correctly 
(because an XHTML markup is extensible and can use any XML tags as long as 
the behavior of the tag is specified in a CSS file). This is, however, not 
a XHTML file that includes the default XHTML markup (<h1>, <p>, <ul>, 
etc.)

Now, lets come back to the last file generated by the export: 
`test.specification`. This is a lua file that contains:

~~~{test.specification}
return {
  ["files"]={ "test-styles.css", "test-images.css", "export-example.css", 
"test.xhtml" },
  ["identifier"]="e6a91a13-4e08-9494-3817-bfffe872be2c",
  ["images"]={},
  ["language"]="en",
  ["name"]="test",
  ["root"]="test.xhtml",
}
~~~~

When you run `mtxrun --script epub --make test`, it just takes the files 
specificied in the "files" field, and zips them in as a epub file.

Now, in principle, any epub reader should support the any XHTML file; in 
practice, they only support the default XHTML tags. The XML+CSS file that 
ConTeXt generates are not handled correctly by most (all?) EPUB readers.

So there are three options:

1. Wait until the EPUB readers catch up. It took almost 10-15 years for 
the browsers to catch up with the HTML standards, and I don't have much 
hope for EPUB readers here. Last I checked, none of them supported 
even MATHML-2.

2. Write a script (either using xmlproc, or using you favorite XML parser 
in your favorite language) that converts the XML generated by ConTeXt into 
a "standard" XHTML file. This is the easiest and the least time consuming 
alternative.

3. Modify the way in which ConTeXt generates the XML files. Ideally, I 
should be able to write something like

~~~
\setupparagraph[tag=p, class=default]
~~~

to tell context that \startparagraph ... \stopparagraph should translate 
to `<p class="default"> ... </p>". Last I checked the code that generates 
the XML file, there was no easy way to change the tags and classes.

I hope that the above description clarifies the situation.

Aditya

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: EPUB woes

[Bill Meahan]

On 11/16/2013 11:00 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> Using a PDF as a basis for creating an Epub ebook is actually a lost cause.
> EPUB is a container format that just wraps around your PDF. I do not know of any
> ereader that can actually adjust the formatting/layout of a pdf in any significantly
> useful way. You are stuck with the formatting in the PDF.
>
> For a EPUB-ebook to adjust properly you need to use HTML5 and CSS. Producing PDF an sticking it into a
> EPUB or MOBI wrapper just does not make sense.
>
> regards
> 	Keith.

You are totally misreading what I wrote!

I know there is no direct PDF -> EPUB route and it's a fool's errand to 
think there is. However, with appropriate headers, ConTeXt is supposed 
to create either a PDF or and EPUB from a common source file marked up 
for ConTeXt. Hence, if I run

wwm$ context <options> export-example.tex

I expect to get a PDF *but* if I run

wwm$ mtxrun --script epub --make export-example.tex  <- the same 
export-example.tex as above

I would /expect/ to get a valid EPUB file, or so I'm lead to believe.

At the moment, I'm simply trying it out using Hans' "export-example.tex" 
file that comes as part of the standard ConTeXt distribution, either 
Standalone or part of one of the other distributions. I haven't even 
opened the export-example.tex file in an editor (yet) in this round of 
trials and I've even run the script against it right in the ..../base/ 
directory where it is found in the distribution so I don't understand 
why it is not producing a valid EPUB. Once I've got that sorted out, I 
can try applying the lessons learned to my own documents.

-- 
Bill Meahan, Westland, Michigan

  
   “Writing is like getting married. One should never
    commit oneself until one is amazed at one's luck.”

                                —Iris Murdoch

___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: EPUB woes

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 16.11.2013 um 16:16 schrieb Bill Meahan <subscribed_lists@meahan.net>:

> I have been trying for a very long time to generate an epub document via context without success.
> 
> I have followed the steps on the wiki to the letter, using the export-example file provided with the standalone distribution. A PDF generated from the file is exactly what I would expect from an example. The generated epub, however, is useless - all the text is jammed together into one continuous block with no formatting whatsoever.
> 
> Adobe Digital Editions 2.0 crashes trying to open it. Sumatra and Sigil get it open but the results are as described above. Obviously I am missing a step or doing something wrong but I cannot see what.
> 
> Context Standalone from a couple of days ago. Windows 7-64 (Home Premium) but I got the same results several months ago on a Linux system so I do not think it is OS-related.

When you use the export option context creates a xml file from your document. When you call not the epub script context creates epub file which contains this xml file which uses a custom format and not xhtml as you would expect. 

To get a epub file which can be used with most reader (a few programs on windows/mac/linux can read contexts output) you have to convert context xml file into valid xhtml.

What you have to do as well in your document to get proper tagged paragraphs is to add \startparagraph and \stopparagraph at the begin and end of each paragraph, otherwise context adds AFAIR <br/> between them.

Wolfgang
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: EPUB woes

[Keith J. Schultz]

Hi Bill,

Using a PDF as a basis for creating an Epub ebook is actually a lost cause.
EPUB is a container format that just wraps around your PDF. I do not know of any 
ereader that can actually adjust the formatting/layout of a pdf in any significantly
useful way. You are stuck with the formatting in the PDF. 

For a EPUB-ebook to adjust properly you need to use HTML5 and CSS. Producing PDF an sticking it into a 
EPUB or MOBI wrapper just does not make sense. 

regards
	Keith.


Am 16.11.2013 um 16:16 schrieb Bill Meahan <subscribed_lists@meahan.net>:

> I have been trying for a very long time to generate an epub document via context without success.
> 
> I have followed the steps on the wiki to the letter, using the export-example file provided with the standalone distribution. A PDF generated from the file is exactly what I would expect from an example. The generated epub, however, is useless - all the text is jammed together into one continuous block with no formatting whatsoever.
> 
> Adobe Digital Editions 2.0 crashes trying to open it. Sumatra and Sigil get it open but the results are as described above. Obviously I am missing a step or doing something wrong but I cannot see what.
> 
> Context Standalone from a couple of days ago. Windows 7-64 (Home Premium) but I got the same results several months ago on a Linux system so I do not think it is OS-related.
> 
> Sign me, "Frustrated!"
> 
> -- 
> Bill Meahan, Westland, Michigan
> 
>   “Writing is like getting married. One should never
>   commit oneself until one is amazed at one's luck.”
> 
>                               —Iris Murdoch
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

EPUB woes

[Bill Meahan]

I have been trying for a very long time to generate an epub document via 
context without success.

I have followed the steps on the wiki to the letter, using the 
export-example file provided with the standalone distribution. A PDF 
generated from the file is exactly what I would expect from an example. 
The generated epub, however, is useless - all the text is jammed 
together into one continuous block with no formatting whatsoever.

Adobe Digital Editions 2.0 crashes trying to open it. Sumatra and Sigil 
get it open but the results are as described above. Obviously I am 
missing a step or doing something wrong but I cannot see what.

Context Standalone from a couple of days ago. Windows 7-64 (Home 
Premium) but I got the same results several months ago on a Linux system 
so I do not think it is OS-related.

Sign me, "Frustrated!"

-- 
Bill Meahan, Westland, Michigan

  
   “Writing is like getting married. One should never
    commit oneself until one is amazed at one's luck.”

                                —Iris Murdoch

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________