"infinite" paper height

"infinite" paper height

[Mojca Miklavec]

Hello,

Is there any way to create "infinite" paper size: such a paper that
all the content fits exactly on a single page? ̣(As a workaroung I can
still create a page of height 2m and then crop it if no other solution
is available.)

\setuplayout
	[width=8cm]
\definepapersize
	[infinite]
	[width=12cm,
	 height=100cm]
\setuppapersize
	[infinite]
	[infinite]

Thank you,
    Mojca
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Re: "infinite" paper height

[Ricard Roca]

I think that's not possible because of TeX. TeX limits any dimension to 2^30 
scaled points (~5.75 m).

But that's only the TeX part. I don't know if dvi drivers can combine several 
TeX pages in one printer page infinitely. Possibly any of the PostScript 
tools?

Ricard

Re: "infinite" paper height

[Patrick Gundlach]

Hi Mojca,

"Mojca Miklavec" <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> writes:

> Is there any way to create "infinite" paper size: such a paper that
> all the content fits exactly on a single page? ̣(As a workaroung I can
> still create a page of height 2m and then crop it if no other solution
> is available.)

this is almost an faq :)

Perhaps the mailinglist archive can help you. Look for the terms
'pervert' and 'idiot' on the archive (no joke!).  Perhaps this helps
you!?

http://archive.contextgarden.net/search/20071130.230000.00000000@pervert,idiot.en.html

Patrick

-- 
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Re: "infinite" paper height

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is there any way to create "infinite" paper size: such a paper that
> all the content fits exactly on a single page? ̣(As a workaroung I can
> still create a page of height 2m and then crop it if no other solution
> is available.)
>
> \setuplayout
> 	[width=8cm]
> \definepapersize
> 	[infinite]
> 	[width=12cm,
> 	 height=100cm]
> \setuppapersize
> 	[infinite]
> 	[infinite]
>
>   
\starttext 
  \startTEXpage 
     your 4 meter poem 
  \stopTEXpage
\stoptext 

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              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: "infinite" paper height

[Taco Hoekwater]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Is there any way to create "infinite" paper size: such a paper that
> all the content fits exactly on a single page? ̣(As a workaroung I can

Automatically cropping it back to the right size, you mean ?
No, but that would be a neat feature. :-)

> still create a page of height 2m and then crop it if no other solution
> is available.)

The maximum paper height TeX can handle is approx 575cm, btw.

Cheers, Taco
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Re: "infinite" paper height

[Taco Hoekwater]

Ricard Roca wrote:
> I think that's not possible because of TeX. TeX limits any dimension to 2^30 
> scaled points (~5.75 m).

I just realized you can cheat just a little:

	\hsize=575cm
	\advance \hsize \hsize
	\message{\the\hsize} % reports 32720.66928pt ~ 11.5m

A nice one for Pavel's new 'TeX surprises' in eurobachotex
next year.


> But that's only the TeX part. I don't know if dvi drivers can combine several 
> TeX pages in one printer page infinitely. Possibly any of the PostScript 
> tools?

DVI maybe, but my Acrobat Reader 7 silently drops the bottom off pages
that are higher than 200in (508cm).

Cheers, taco

Re: "infinite" paper height

[Hans Hagen]

Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Ricard Roca wrote:
>   
>> I think that's not possible because of TeX. TeX limits any dimension to 2^30 
>> scaled points (~5.75 m).
>>     
>
> I just realized you can cheat just a little:
>
> 	\hsize=575cm
> 	\advance \hsize \hsize
>   
interesting indeed because normally tex checks for overflows when 
calculating
> 	\message{\the\hsize} % reports 32720.66928pt ~ 11.5m
>
> A nice one for Pavel's new 'TeX surprises' in eurobachotex
> next year.
>
>   
actually, one can put stuff in a vbox till tex's mem overflows, and even split off pieces, as long as one does not calculate using the dimensions of a box; tex's overflow check only happens when doing explicit calculations 


Hans 

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                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: "infinite" paper height

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
> \starttext 
>   \startTEXpage 
>      your 4 meter poem 
>   \stopTEXpage
> \stoptext 

doh!

Re: "infinite" paper height

[Mojca Miklavec]

Thank you, Ricard and Taco,

On 7/18/06, Taco Hoekwater  wrote:
>
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Is there any way to create "infinite" paper size: such a paper that
> > all the content fits exactly on a single page? ̣(As a workaroung I can
>
> Automatically cropping it back to the right size, you mean ?
> No, but that would be a neat feature. :-)
>
> > still create a page of height 2m and then crop it if no other solution
> > is available.)
>
> The maximum paper height TeX can handle is approx 575cm, btw.

5m is "inifinite enough" for me (I hope). I only need to fit the whole
article on a single page and I guess that no article will go over this
limit. It would be nice if the paper size could be adjusted
automatically (that's what I meant with infinite) to the length of the
article, but if that would require too much effort, it would probably
be easier if I crop the page after processing it with ConTeXt.

Thanks,
    Mojca
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Re: "infinite" paper height

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 7/18/06, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Is there any way to create "infinite" paper size: such a paper that
> > all the content fits exactly on a single page? ̣(As a workaroung I can
> > still create a page of height 2m and then crop it if no other solution
> > is available.)
> >
> > \setuplayout
> >       [width=8cm]
> > \definepapersize
> >       [infinite]
> >       [width=12cm,
> >        height=100cm]
> > \setuppapersize
> >       [infinite]
> >       [infinite]
> >
> >
> \starttext
>   \startTEXpage
>      your 4 meter poem
>   \stopTEXpage
> \stoptext

Thank you, that's great! I knew about TEXpage, but never
thought/forgot about such a misuse.

Except for one little (buggy?) detail:

\setuplayout
	[width=8.55cm,
	 topspace=0cm,
	 backspace=0cm,
	 header=0pt,
	 footer=0pt,
	 height=fit,
	]

\definepapersize
	[infinite]
	[width=8.55cm,
	 height=60cm]

\starttext
\startTEXpage
\section{bla}
\input tufte
\stopTEXpage
\stoptext

section is too low and consequently the last (few) line(s) are cropped.

The example on http://pub.mojca.org/presek/articles.tex also has the
last page wider than the first two.

Mojca

PS: this last request has nothing to do with the problem above, but I
have a little request if anyone is willing to help me. I need the file
mentioned above (http://pub.mojca.org/presek/article2.tex) to be
typeset in lucida (only to show it to the editor; they'll almost
certainly buy the font, but I need the example faster than I can ask
them to buy the font and figure out how to use it; they gave me 19 pfb
files, but they're dating back to 1990 and it seems to me that there
are not enough files anyway). Is anyone willing to compile the file
above with lucida font and send me the resulting PDF? I would be very
grateful for that.

The last page has a little problem with accents and everything is
shifted down, but I don't mind if they are a bit wrong this time since
it's only an example.
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Re: "infinite" paper height

[Adam Lindsay]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> 5m is "inifinite enough" for me (I hope). I only need to fit the whole
> article on a single page and I guess that no article will go over this
> limit. 

FWIW, Acrobat 6 and earlier had severe problems with document dimensions 
over 200cm, so keep that in mind for compatibility.

 >It would be nice if the paper size could be adjusted
> automatically (that's what I meant with infinite) to the length of the
> article, but if that would require too much effort, it would probably
> be easier if I crop the page after processing it with ConTeXt.

Yes. See Hans's reply with \startTEXpage . Very handy command, that. :)
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept.     atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk
  Lancaster University, InfoLab21        +44(0)1524/510.514
  Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK             Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: "infinite" paper height

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 7/18/06, Adam Lindsay wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> > 5m is "inifinite enough" for me (I hope). I only need to fit the whole
> > article on a single page and I guess that no article will go over this
> > limit.
>
> FWIW, Acrobat 6 and earlier had severe problems with document dimensions
> over 200cm, so keep that in mind for compatibility.

That's not my problem any more. They asked me to prepare long
continuous text with TeX (so that formulae and everything else will be
OK) - they intend to use the resulting PDF to design a magazine in
InDesign after that (I don't know how they're going to do that, but I
assume that InDesign should be able to handle that - if not, I'll
think about that after the problems arise).

> Yes. See Hans's reply with \startTEXpage . Very handy command, that. :)

He replied faster than I noted ;) Yes, \startTEXpage it's *the*
solution that I wanted, only the vertical shifting after \subject has
to be fixed somehow.

Thanks,
    Mojca

Re: "infinite" paper height

[Martin Schröder]

2006/7/18, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com>:
> DVI maybe, but my Acrobat Reader 7 silently drops the bottom off pages
> that are higher than 200in (508cm).

This is an implementation limit of AR7: 200inx200in. This can be
overcome by using UserUnit in PDF 1.6: Then you can have up to
15.000.000inx15.000.000in .

Best
   Martin

Re: OT: formulae in InDesign (was: "infinite" paper height)

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2006-07-18 um 15:56 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:

> That's not my problem any more. They asked me to prepare long
> continuous text with TeX (so that formulae and everything else will be
> OK) - they intend to use the resulting PDF to design a magazine in
> InDesign after that (I don't know how they're going to do that, but I
> assume that InDesign should be able to handle that - if not, I'll
> think about that after the problems arise).

I recently had to typeset a book about steam engineering with some  
formulae.
I would've done it with TeX, but the customer wanted InDesign data to  
be able to make corrections himself (and I wasn't evil enough to  
place TeX generated PDF pages in an ID document).
I can tell you, typesetting formulae in InDesign are not funny!
Maybe they use some Plugin.

Greetlings from Lake Constance!
Hraban
---
http://www.fiee.net/texnique/
http://contextgarden.net
http://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

Re: OT: formulae in InDesign (was: "infinite" paper height)

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 7/18/06, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> Am 2006-07-18 um 15:56 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:
>
> > That's not my problem any more. They asked me to prepare long
> > continuous text with TeX (so that formulae and everything else will be
> > OK) - they intend to use the resulting PDF to design a magazine in
> > InDesign after that (I don't know how they're going to do that, but I
> > assume that InDesign should be able to handle that - if not, I'll
> > think about that after the problems arise).
>
> I recently had to typeset a book about steam engineering with some
> formulae.
> I would've done it with TeX, but the customer wanted InDesign data to
> be able to make corrections himself (and I wasn't evil enough to
> place TeX generated PDF pages in an ID document).
> I can tell you, typesetting formulae in InDesign are not funny!

1. not funny
2. extremely ugly

I would do everything in ConTeXt, but I'm not a designer and I don't
dare to take over the whole design. besides that magazines need
sligtly more "individuality" for each page than books.

The most easy solution would be if there was some TeX plugin in
InDesign. The designers (students) only know how to work in ID and
they suggested that they could do the desing in ID if I provided long
columns of text (typeset in TeX) as PDF document. I never worked with
ID (so I don't know how exactly it works), but apparently they're
going to take the PDF document and order the text more or less
graphically on pages. They don't need to modify text any more once
they get the PDF (they don't understand the content anyway ;).

Taco also mentioned some alternatives to ID, but I forgot which ones.

Mojca

Re: "infinite" paper height

[Hans Hagen]

� wrote:
> 2006/7/18, Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com>:
>   
>> DVI maybe, but my Acrobat Reader 7 silently drops the bottom off pages
>> that are higher than 200in (508cm).
>>     
>
> This is an implementation limit of AR7: 200inx200in. This can be
> overcome by using UserUnit in PDF 1.6: Then you can have up to
> 15.000.000inx15.000.000in .
>   
so we need an extension in pdftex ... \pdfuserunit 

Hans 

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                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: "infinite" paper height

[Hans Hagen]

Patrick Gundlach wrote:
> Hi Mojca,
>
> "Mojca Miklavec" <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> writes:
>
>   
>> Is there any way to create "infinite" paper size: such a paper that
>> all the content fits exactly on a single page? ̣(As a workaroung I can
>> still create a page of height 2m and then crop it if no other solution
>> is available.)
>>     
>
> this is almost an faq :)
>
> Perhaps the mailinglist archive can help you. Look for the terms
> 'pervert' and 'idiot' on the archive (no joke!).  Perhaps this helps
> you!?
>
> http://archive.contextgarden.net/search/20071130.230000.00000000@pervert,idiot.en.html
>   
ha, my memory fails me, interesting historic bits and pieces 

Hans 

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              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: "infinite" paper height

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On 7/18/06, Adam Lindsay wrote:
>   
>> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>     
>>> 5m is "inifinite enough" for me (I hope). I only need to fit the whole
>>> article on a single page and I guess that no article will go over this
>>> limit.
>>>       
>> FWIW, Acrobat 6 and earlier had severe problems with document dimensions
>> over 200cm, so keep that in mind for compatibility.
>>     
>
> That's not my problem any more. They asked me to prepare long
> continuous text with TeX (so that formulae and everything else will be
> OK) - they intend to use the resulting PDF to design a magazine in
> InDesign after that (I don't know how they're going to do that, but I
> assume that InDesign should be able to handle that - if not, I'll
> think about that after the problems arise).
>   
so why not use a small font; if it's cut and pasted in indesign then 
they can also scale

Hans


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                                          Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
              Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                             | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: "infinite" paper height

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 7/19/06, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> > On 7/18/06, Adam Lindsay wrote:
> >
> >> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> >>
> >>> 5m is "inifinite enough" for me (I hope). I only need to fit the whole
> >>> article on a single page and I guess that no article will go over this
> >>> limit.
> >>>
> >> FWIW, Acrobat 6 and earlier had severe problems with document dimensions
> >> over 200cm, so keep that in mind for compatibility.
> >>
> >
> > That's not my problem any more. They asked me to prepare long
> > continuous text with TeX (so that formulae and everything else will be
> > OK) - they intend to use the resulting PDF to design a magazine in
> > InDesign after that (I don't know how they're going to do that, but I
> > assume that InDesign should be able to handle that - if not, I'll
> > think about that after the problems arise).
> >
> so why not use a small font; if it's cut and pasted in indesign then
> they can also scale

Most articles will be shorter than 2m anyway, I hope. If not, smaller
font size is surely one of the possibilities, but I'll worry about
that later (I don't doubt that I'll be bitten by enough ConTeXt bugs
before that will happen).

Thanks for the tip,
    Mojca

Re: "infinite" paper height

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
> Most articles will be shorter than 2m anyway, I hope. If not, smaller
> font size is surely one of the possibilities, but I'll worry about
> that later (I don't doubt that I'll be bitten by enough ConTeXt bugs
> before that will happen).
>   

do you mean real bugs or misuse of features stretched beyond their 
intended usage ...

in a next release i will implement \doifuserelse{mojca} {ignore feature} 
{carry on} -)

Hans

Re: "infinite" paper height

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 7/19/06, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> >
> > Most articles will be shorter than 2m anyway, I hope. If not, smaller
> > font size is surely one of the possibilities, but I'll worry about
> > that later (I don't doubt that I'll be bitten by enough ConTeXt bugs
> > before that will happen).
> >
>
> do you mean real bugs or misuse of features stretched beyond their
> intended usage ...
>
> in a next release i will implement \doifuserelse{mojca} {ignore feature}
> {carry on} -)

No problem. If my name won't be misspelled (as in some ConTeXt sources
:) I can still add the following to the cont-usr.tex ;)

\let\reverseuser=\doifuserelse
\def\doifuserelse#1#2#3{\reverseuser{#1}{#3}{#2}}

Mojca