From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/32337 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Mojca Miklavec" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Manual (English) Update soon? Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 01:43:24 +0100 Message-ID: <6faad9f00612281643w48c24d36t9997c7fdd943789a@mail.gmail.com> References: Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: dough.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1167353032 19147 80.91.229.10 (29 Dec 2006 00:43:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 00:43:52 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Fri Dec 29 01:43:49 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by dough.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1H05qa-0006yW-NZ for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 01:43:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458991FF32; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 01:41:42 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 10837-05-4; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 01:41:35 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C17D1FEF9; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 01:41:35 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4EA31FEFD for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 01:41:30 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 10837-05-3 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 01:41:23 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.184]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B6741FEF7 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 01:41:23 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l37so4983914nfc for ; Thu, 28 Dec 2006 16:43:24 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.49.93.13 with SMTP id v13mr18510457nfl.1167353004882; Thu, 28 Dec 2006 16:43:24 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.48.209.2 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Dec 2006 16:43:24 -0800 (PST) Original-To: "mailing list for ConTeXt users" In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:32337 Archived-At: On 12/28/06, Douglas Philips wrote: > Hello again, > > I've just recently tried to "get up to speed" on ConTeXt by reading > what I could find on the web, including > cont-eni.pdf (ConTeXt the manual by Hans Hagen, November 12th, 2001). > > Recent activity on this list, discussing the Debian packaging, says > (and I commented on this a few days ago in another thread): > "ConTeXt is developed rapidly, often in response to requests from the > friendly user community." Well, the ConTeXt manual is one of the most stable components of ConTeXt indeed ;) But consider it from the bright side: yes, it's still fully usable (after two years of using ConTeXt it's still hard to do anything without using it), everything mentioned there should still work (unless there has been some bug introduced in the mean time) and the major functionality has been there at that time already. Yes, there have been many improvements since then, but if I'm looking for a particular one, there's still google, grep (my best friend) and a friendly mailing list which has been following ConTeXt development for the last five years. Major things have been mentioned in one of the other hundred of the manuals (nice reading for long rainy nights), additional options can sometimes only be found in source. That's surely no excuse for not refreshing the manual, but there's no excuse for not sharing your experience on the wiki or web version of texshow either. But to be honest: what if you were using LaTeX? I don't know any page or book where all the packages would be described. Sure, the best, most widely used package make it into books with time, but for the others you can't do anything without mailing lists and search engines either. And then you learn to use one package which becomes obsolete and unmaintained, so after two years when you finally become comfortable with it you figure out that it would make sense to switch to another better package, the same story after two years ... At least that's what I experience with packages for graphics: I've learnt picTeX with troubles just to figure out that it's completely useless, then there was some other don't-remember-which package, still too poor to do anything there, then I finally discovered PSTricks which became kind-of-obsolete with pdfTeX or XeTeX. The same story with just about any package for creating slides or changing page layout, headers, footers (and they all took a lot of time to learn how to use them), not to mention the changes in base LaTeX (documentstyle -> documentclass{article} -> Komma script) and the fact that most packages become unmaintained after they have been written. > And so I am wondering if ConTeXt is still too fresh... It's always full of surprizes. But what do you mean with "too fresh"? If you're worried that your colleagues don't have the latest version of ConTeXt installed (and thus won't be able to compile your code) then you're probably right. (But if you want to use the latest packeg from LaTeX, there's even more chance that they won't have it. In ConTeXt you know at least that downloading one thing should suffice.) > and if I'll > have any chance of figuring out what/how to use it without having > been on this list for the past 4+ years... Take it from the bright side: even if you were on the list, you wouldn't have time to follow it unless you were a student ;) And take it from the bright side again: tetex on most linux distributions is just as old as the manual, so you wouldn't be missing much ;) > (IIRC, Hans is also a core team member of LuaTeX, so perhaps I should > just suck it up with LaTeX until LuaTeX is viable?) No reason for, as Aditya already mentioned. In my opinion "It makes no sense to wait for solar-energy car before you start doing your driver's licence. Unless you intend to design or produce cars, you shouldn't even notice the difference." Mojca