Let's Polish the math!

Let's Polish the math!

[Marcin Borkowski]

Hi,

how to do this: here in Poland we have some conventions as for
typesetting math; for example, we don't use  \leq, but \leqslant; we
don't write "tan" for tangent, but "tg"; we don't write "arcsin", but
"arc\,sin"; etc.  Would it be possible to have such typographic
conventions (I could provide a more comprehensive list, of course)
enabled by \mainlanguage[pl]?  A related problem is dashes; where the
English use an em-dash without any spaces, the Polish use an en-dash
with spaces of around 0.2em (the left one "unbreakable", i.e., with
\penalty10000).  Also, we put periods after section numbers, so no "1.2
Section", but rather "1.2. Section".  What is the ConTeXt way to have
such things for different languages?

Regards

-- 
Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.pl)

This program is written in Perl.  While stronger people find reading
Perl code character-building, it should not be shown to people in their
formative years.  The author will not accept any responsibility for any
moral grief caused.

	    (The McKornik Jr. Public License)
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Re: Let's Polish the math!

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 01:26, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> Hi,
>
> how to do this: here in Poland we have some conventions as for
> typesetting math; for example, we don't use  \leq, but \leqslant; we
> don't write "tan" for tangent, but "tg";

That one is trivial. In math-tex there are dozens of definitions like:
    \definemathcommand [tan]     [nolop] {\mfunction{tan}}
In my opinion adding
    \definemathcommand [tg]     [nolop] {\mfunction{tg}}
to the list sounds reasonable, so then you can simply use \tg.

> we don't write "arcsin", but
> "arc\,sin"; etc.

\definemathcommand [arcsin]  [limop] {\mfunction{arc\,sin}}

But I don't know how to make it language-dependant (you can definitely
put it to some place that only gets loaded when you load Polish, but
then you'll have problems switching back and forth).

> Would it be possible to have such typographic
> conventions (I could provide a more comprehensive list, of course)
> enabled by \mainlanguage[pl]?  A related problem is dashes; where the
> English use an em-dash without any spaces, the Polish use an en-dash
> with spaces of around 0.2em (the left one "unbreakable", i.e., with
> \penalty10000).

I put a normal or unbreakable space around it :) :) :) But maybe
that's not the right solution, I just didn't care too much.

> Also, we put periods after section numbers, so no "1.2
> Section", but rather "1.2. Section".  What is the ConTeXt way to have
> such things for different languages?

We do that too. The code below is a dirty hack that achives the
desired result (in any mark), but cannot be hardcoded into the
language since it has some side effects:

\def\mynumberwithdot#1{#1.}
\setuphead
  [section] % gets inherited for subsections as well
  [numbercommand=\mynumberwithdot]

Hans has rewritten sectioning for mkiv I think, but I didn't explore
the new possibilities yet. So if you figure it out ... I would like to
have it for Slovenian as well.

Mojca
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Re: Let's Polish the math!

[Aditya Mahajan]

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Hi Marcin,

On Sat, 14 Mar 2009, Marcin Borkowski wrote:

> Hi,
>
> how to do this: here in Poland we have some conventions as for
> typesetting math; for example, we don't use  \leq, but \leqslant;

The easy way is to type ⩽ (0x2A7D) instead of ≤ (0x2264) :). You can do
something like

\setuplabeltext [en] [lessthanequal={\leq}]
\setuplabeltext [pl] [lessthanequal={\leqslant}]

\def\le{\labeltext{lessthanequal}}

and then use \le, but I am not sure if this is a good thing to do.

> we don't write "tan" for tangent, but "tg";

Do you want \tan to produce tg? Again you can do

\setuplabeltext [en] [tangent={tan}]
\setuplabeltext [pl] [tangent={tg}]

\definemathcommand [tan]     [nolop] {\mfunction{\labeltext{tangent}}}

> we don't write "arcsin", but
> "arc\,sin"; etc.

Same as above.

> Would it be possible to have such typographic
> conventions (I could provide a more comprehensive list, of course)
> enabled by \mainlanguage[pl]?

It is relatively easy to do this. I am in favour of implementing the
trignometric functions, etc; but I do not think that changing the meanings of
mathematical symbols is a good thing. It is really hard to remember the names of
symbols as is, changing meaning according to language will make it extremely
difficult.

> A related problem is dashes; where the
> English use an em-dash without any spaces, the Polish use an en-dash
> with spaces of around 0.2em (the left one "unbreakable", i.e., with
> \penalty10000).

Don't know.

> Also, we put periods after section numbers, so no "1.2
> Section", but rather "1.2. Section".

\setuplabeltext [pl] [section={{},{.}}]

> What is the ConTeXt way to have
> such things for different languages?

\setuplabeltext

Aditya

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Re: Let's Polish the math!

[Xan]

En/na Aditya Mahajan ha escrit:
> Hi Marcin,
>
> On Sat, 14 Mar 2009, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> how to do this: here in Poland we have some conventions as for
>> typesetting math; for example, we don't use  \leq, but \leqslant;
In catalan and spanish languages we have too some conventions: $\max$ 
should type "màx" (with grave accent), and $\min$ should type "mín" 
(with accute accent).

Is it a way for doing this by default?
Xan.
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Re: Let's Polish the math!

[Hans Hagen]

Xan wrote:
> En/na Aditya Mahajan ha escrit:
>> Hi Marcin,
>>
>> On Sat, 14 Mar 2009, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> how to do this: here in Poland we have some conventions as for
>>> typesetting math; for example, we don't use  \leq, but \leqslant;
> In catalan and spanish languages we have too some conventions: $\max$ 
> should type "màx" (with grave accent), and $\min$ should type "mín" 
> (with accute accent).
> 
> Is it a way for doing this by default?

we could make them labels per language ... probably with some prefix 
like math:max or so


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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Let's Polish the math!

[Xan]

En/na Hans Hagen ha escrit:
> Xan wrote:
>> En/na Aditya Mahajan ha escrit:
>>> Hi Marcin,
>>>
>>> On Sat, 14 Mar 2009, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> how to do this: here in Poland we have some conventions as for
>>>> typesetting math; for example, we don't use  \leq, but \leqslant;
>> In catalan and spanish languages we have too some conventions: $\max$ 
>> should type "màx" (with grave accent), and $\min$ should type "mín" 
>> (with accute accent).
>>
>> Is it a way for doing this by default?
>
> we could make them labels per language ... probably with some prefix 
> like math:max or so
>
Thanks, Hans.

A punctualization:
- "\max" --> "màx" for catalan, "máx" for spanish
- "\min" --> "mín" for both languages.

Sorry for the error.

Xan.
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Re: Let's Polish the math!

[Hans Hagen]

Aditya Mahajan wrote:

> It is relatively easy to do this. I am in favour of implementing the
> trignometric functions, etc; but I do not think that changing the 
> meanings of
> mathematical symbols is a good thing. It is really hard to remember the 
> names of
> symbols as is, changing meaning according to language will make it 
> extremely
> difficult.

indeed, so ... who is going to collect those labels? aditya and i can 
take care of the usage

Hans


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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Let's Polish the math!

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 08:52, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>
>> Also, we put periods after section numbers, so no "1.2
>> Section", but rather "1.2. Section".
>
> \setuplabeltext [pl] [section={{},{.}}]

Hello Aditya,

Interesting trick, thanks. But the problem is that references then
ignore the dot. So \in[ref] gives me only "1" instead of "1.". Also,
it's non-recursive (but that is not so problematic). Redefining the
numbercommand seems to work a tiny bit better for me, but I would
prefer to have a better & automatic solution based on the chosen
language (so that "1.1.." will start appearing in my old documents :)
:) :) :)

Mojca
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Re: Let's Polish the math!

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 17.03.2009 um 20:12 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:

> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 08:52, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>
>>> Also, we put periods after section numbers, so no "1.2
>>> Section", but rather "1.2. Section".
>>
>> \setuplabeltext [pl] [section={{},{.}}]
>
> Hello Aditya,
>
> Interesting trick, thanks. But the problem is that references then
> ignore the dot. So \in[ref] gives me only "1" instead of "1.". Also,
> it's non-recursive (but that is not so problematic). Redefining the
> numbercommand seems to work a tiny bit better for me, but I would
> prefer to have a better & automatic solution based on the chosen
> language (so that "1.1.." will start appearing in my old documents :)
> :) :) :)


Let's hope the stopper key for \setuphead will work in MkIV.

Language depends settings are possible with start/stoplanguagespecifics
but it's broken :-(

\startlanguagespecifics[sl]

\setuphead
   [chapter,section,subsection]
   [numbercommand=\groupedcommand{}{.}]

\stoplanguagespecifics

\starttext

\section{Knuth}

\input knuth

\page

\mainlanguage[sl]

\section{Tufte}

\input tufte

\stoptext

Wolfgang

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Re: Let's Polish the math!

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 20:56, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
> Am 17.03.2009 um 20:12 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:
>
>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 08:52, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also, we put periods after section numbers, so no "1.2
>>>> Section", but rather "1.2. Section".
>>>
>>> \setuplabeltext [pl] [section={{},{.}}]
>>
>> Hello Aditya,
>>
>> Interesting trick, thanks. But the problem is that references then
>> ignore the dot. So \in[ref] gives me only "1" instead of "1.". Also,
>> it's non-recursive (but that is not so problematic). Redefining the
>> numbercommand seems to work a tiny bit better for me, but I would
>> prefer to have a better & automatic solution based on the chosen
>> language (so that "1.1.." will start appearing in my old documents :)
>> :) :) :)
>
>
> Let's hope the stopper key for \setuphead will work in MkIV.
>
> Language depends settings are possible with start/stoplanguagespecifics
> but it's broken :-(
>
> \startlanguagespecifics[sl]
>
> \setuphead
>  [chapter,section,subsection]
>  [numbercommand=\groupedcommand{}{.}]
>
> \stoplanguagespecifics

Hello Wolfgang,

I was often tempted to do that (in some less fancy way than with
groupedcommand :) by default ... but maybe some user wants
    \setuphead[section][numbercommand=\xxx] \def\xxx#1{\framed{#1}}
or whatever else and that would interfere with the existing
numbercommand= that's specific to one language. Proper support for
stopper would be much better.

Mojca
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Re: Let's Polish the math!

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 20:56, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> Am 17.03.2009 um 20:12 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:
>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 08:52, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
>>>>> Also, we put periods after section numbers, so no "1.2
>>>>> Section", but rather "1.2. Section".
>>>> \setuplabeltext [pl] [section={{},{.}}]
>>> Hello Aditya,
>>>
>>> Interesting trick, thanks. But the problem is that references then
>>> ignore the dot. So \in[ref] gives me only "1" instead of "1.". Also,
>>> it's non-recursive (but that is not so problematic). Redefining the
>>> numbercommand seems to work a tiny bit better for me, but I would
>>> prefer to have a better & automatic solution based on the chosen
>>> language (so that "1.1.." will start appearing in my old documents :)
>>> :) :) :)
>>
>> Let's hope the stopper key for \setuphead will work in MkIV.
>>
>> Language depends settings are possible with start/stoplanguagespecifics
>> but it's broken :-(
>>
>> \startlanguagespecifics[sl]
>>
>> \setuphead
>>  [chapter,section,subsection]
>>  [numbercommand=\groupedcommand{}{.}]
>>
>> \stoplanguagespecifics
> 
> Hello Wolfgang,
> 
> I was often tempted to do that (in some less fancy way than with
> groupedcommand :) by default ... but maybe some user wants
>     \setuphead[section][numbercommand=\xxx] \def\xxx#1{\framed{#1}}
> or whatever else and that would interfere with the existing
> numbercommand= that's specific to one language. Proper support for
> stopper would be much better.

mkiv (xp) has much more control over conversion, separators, stoppers as 
well as control over each of them with respect to typesetting; also, it 
can be different for all places where numbers are used; of course this 
comes at a price ... the more one can tune, the more complex things get

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Let's Polish the math!

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 14.03.2009 um 01:26 schrieb Marcin Borkowski:

> Would it be possible to have such typographic
> conventions (I could provide a more comprehensive list, of course)
> enabled by \mainlanguage[pl]?

\startlanguagespecifics[pl]

... % what Mojca and Aditya told you

\stoplanguagespecifics

Wolfgang

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