From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/41679 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Oliver Buerschaper Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: distro info Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:19:05 +0200 Message-ID: <712AF0A4-00F0-405A-A6EC-7F2F7A753977@mpq.mpg.de> References: <6faad9f00806100858m332b0c18w1726368830a29a3c@mail.gmail.com> <46D24799-264A-4AFE-9089-A63F4226985C@mpq.mpg.de> <8687593C-CFC0-4F6A-9EA2-091FC7CBB2CC@di.unito.it> <6faad9f00806110905q32b9c142t6af44f2edf85adbf@mail.gmail.com> <4F0FF6A1-CBA4-455D-80A5-785E59607044@di.unito.it> <181B45FF-223C-4CBB-8909-F4C9BB2E0C5B@fiee.net> <653FF68A-0886-4ECA-A87C-36D95138437A@uni-bonn.de> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v924) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1213457702 1996 80.91.229.12 (14 Jun 2008 15:35:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:35:02 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sat Jun 14 17:35:44 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1K7Xn6-0003vM-BD for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:35:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E5F31FE26; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:34:54 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 01780-01-75; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:34:12 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 047061FE4F; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:06:33 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A08BE1FE59 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:06:31 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 02135-02-29 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:06:12 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from post.rzg.mpg.de (post.rzg.mpg.de [130.183.7.21]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130661FE78 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:19:07 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.2] (f053224056.adsl.alicedsl.de [78.53.224.56]) by post.rzg.mpg.de (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA2011350 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:19:06 +0200 X-Envelope-To: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.924) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:41679 Archived-At: > Who said that "the only way to properly interact with TeX is via the > command line"? What I said is: you can provide all the GUI tools you > want, at some point (and this will be rather sooner than later) > problems will crop up, and these problems will be impossible to > resolve if you don't want to use the command line, don't want to learn > about PATH settings, don't want to learn about where configuration > files go and what they do. This may be different in, say 10 years, but > it would be misleading to pretend that it is different today. TeXLive > 2008 is just being tested, and in this regard, it's no better than its > predecessors. Unless and until we have systems which will be easier to > maintain, users who expect to be able to stay away from the CLI are > bound to be disappointed. Not necessarily I guess. See below. > Your example about Apple's Xcode actually proves my point: I said that > if you can afford to throw a couple of million $ and a dozen > programmers at this, it is actually feasible (but will still take > time). Apple has done just that; the Xcode IDE hasn't been built by > volunteers in their spare time, now has it? That's right. My point though is that once the installation has been = done via a GUI (a rather simple one suffices, by the way) there's no = need for knowing about paths and configuration files. (That is, if the = installation package doesn't happen to be buggy in the first place =85) = And this also applies to updates unless you want to perform them = manually. However, I don't think many people would think of updating = any large software environment (Xcode, KDE, Gnome, =85 whatever) without = the help of a GUI package manager. I also doubt the end user will ever = have to tweak any configuration files of TeXLive. Neither would they = be willing to. I wonder why this has to be different for ConTeXt =85 > As for "fumbling around with dozens of configuration files": such > exaggerations are not very helpful in this discussion. Well, until roughly two weeks ago, this wouldn't have been too = exaggerated though ... now thanks to Hans' and Taco's efforts this has = improved vastly! There's probably still some way to go. Oliver ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________