Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Garulfo]

@Pablo Rodriguez

Thanks, and indeed behavior changes with the following commands:

\configurertête[section,chapitre,sujet]
                [couleur=couleurtitre,
                 indenterensuite=oui]

\configurerflottant[indenterensuite=oui]

\configurerformule[indenterensuite=oui]


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french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Garulfo]

Hi,

a "early-alpha-version" of updated setup-fr.pdf
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:setup-fr.pdf

with the associated mult-def.lua.
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:20_output_mult-def_garulfo.zip

Any feedback will be welcome.

To developers : what priorities, in terms of categories,
would you advise for the translation ?

%-----------------------------

Progress:

TYPE         TOTAL    DONE
commands      3962     943    24%
constants      841     708    84%
elements        26      26   100%
setupstrings   135      57    42%     = 100% other are { ( |...
variables     1329     632    48%

               6293    2366    38%


CATEGORY    TOTAL    DONE
alignment       163    92    56%
attribute        23     2     9%
background      158    71    45%
bibliography    148    20    14%
buffer           30    16    53%
catcode          22     4    18%
characters       59           0%
colors          108    32    30%
conditional      59           0%
counter         311    72    23%
float             1           0%
fonts           453   224    49%
graphics        247    88    36%
language        223    73    33%
layout          173    79    46%
lua              42     1     2%
mathematics     369    42    11%
nan             650   572    88%
None           1269   118     9%
pdf             228    99    43%
references       80    42    53%
rules            85    45    53%
structure       892   567    64%
symbols         110    19    17%
system            3           0%
tables          103    32    31%
verbatim         22    17    77%
whitespace      107    30    28%
xml             155     9     6%

                6293  2366    38%




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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Hans Hagen]

On 7/14/2020 11:39 PM, Garulfo wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> a "early-alpha-version" of updated setup-fr.pdf
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:setup-fr.pdf
> 
> with the associated mult-def.lua.
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:20_output_mult-def_garulfo.zip
> 
> Any feedback will be welcome.
> 
> To developers : what priorities, in terms of categories,
> would you advise for the translation ?
> 
> %-----------------------------
> 
> Progress:
> 
> TYPE         TOTAL    DONE
> commands      3962     943    24%
> constants      841     708    84%
> elements        26      26   100%
> setupstrings   135      57    42%     = 100% other are { ( |...
> variables     1329     632    48%
> 
>                6293    2366    38%
you can leave the commands for last ... in an french user interface the 
english commands will work ok, but keys/values/elements have to be 
translated

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 15.07.2020 um 10:31 schrieb Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>:
> you can leave the commands for last ... in an french user interface the english commands will work ok, but keys/values/elements have to be translated

Are the other interfaces (Dutch, German, Czech...) actually still working?

AFAIR I tried the German one in the beginning (MkII) but gave up since all the documentation is in English, and nobody could help you with anything but English and Dutch.

WRT your musings (“What’s in a name“): translated interfaces look funny, and I guess they make only sense in a very limited environment. E.g. Marei’s LaTeX3 system I’m working with uses German commands, but it’s focused on technical documentation for one company, and we’re not supposed to use general LaTeX commands.

In my German book I’ll only show the English interface, otherwise I’d need to write even more...

@Garulfo: Do you have a special use case in mind, or do you do this for fun?

Best, Hraban
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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Hans Hagen]

On 7/15/2020 2:14 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> 
>> Am 15.07.2020 um 10:31 schrieb Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>:
>> you can leave the commands for last ... in an french user interface the english commands will work ok, but keys/values/elements have to be translated
> 
> Are the other interfaces (Dutch, German, Czech...) actually still working?
are germans still lipsyncing movies (or even foreign news), translating 
computerbooks in german (large secxtions in bookshops), translating 
thrillers and novels ... or has that all stopped working

anyway, it is supposed to work and whenever kids have to use context 
doing it in dutch is more fun (one just learns them the handfull of 
commands they need)

Hans


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               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 15.07.2020 um 14:28 schrieb Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>:
> 
> On 7/15/2020 2:14 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>>> Am 15.07.2020 um 10:31 schrieb Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>:
>>> you can leave the commands for last ... in an french user interface the english commands will work ok, but keys/values/elements have to be translated
>> Are the other interfaces (Dutch, German, Czech...) actually still working?
> are germans still lipsyncing movies (or even foreign news), translating computerbooks in german (large secxtions in bookshops), translating thrillers and novels ... or has that all stopped working

I don’t understand the comparison.

It’s a difference if I can enjoy movies or books, if I can understand textbooks or manuals in a foreign language or if and why I’d use translated programming or markup commands.

For me, lip syncing can make movies confusing, since the sound doesn’t match the lip movements – I prefer original language with subtitles (for German and English, that is).

> anyway, it is supposed to work and whenever kids have to use context doing it in dutch is more fun (one just learns them the handfull of commands they need)

I’m not against these interfaces, but without translated documentation a translated interface doesn’t make a lot of sense (to me).

E.g. LilyPond docs have several translations (it’s a huge effort!), but besides note names there’s no interface translation. (I’m glad I can use c d e notes, while others prefer do re mi etc. I could even use German h/b instead of b/bes, but I got used to the Dutch default – for input only; in my songbooks I stick to German chord names.)

Translated documentation is important, it lowers the threshold for many users. That’s why I’m writing my book in German. But once you grow out of the basics, you need to be able to find your way in manuals and wiki or ask questions here, where everything’s in English.

With our small developer and user base we struggle enough with keeping documentation current. – I’m very happy with and thankful for the big effort that goes into the wiki at the moment! – Maybe we (i.e. Taco, Paul etc.) can extend the automatisms so far, that we also can document the translated interfaces that way, even if the manually added content would stay in English.

I never heard that kids would use ConTeXt at all, but perhaps I just missed you talking about it.


Sorry, Garulfo, didn’t want to hijack your thread.


Best regards, Hraban
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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Garulfo]

 > @Garulfo: Do you have a special use case in mind, or do you do this
 > for fun?

"for fun" isn't quite right, although there's probably some truth to it.
Actually, translating 6,300 keywords isn't fun, and it's even worst when 
you don't really master the material behind...

The point is that I am sad to not be able to offer the use of ConTeXt 
(such a great piece of software) to friends and childrens.
And ConTeXt complexity or ConTeXt documentation are not the first hurdles.

When you start with a new software, a new methodology, having first to 
struggle with vocabulary in a foreign language is definitively a (BIG) 
thorn in your side (in fact, usually you just don't start).

Many popular softwares offer multi-language early in their development 
(netscape / firefox, scratch, wordpress, krita...).
ConTeXt did it, the infrastructure is ready, the translations exist, at 
least partially or at an early stage.

And when I started to use it, I thought that it could easily be improved 
and updated without requiring any Tex / Lua skills.

One remark : I was wrong, I spend hours to put all the content (from 
mult-def and context-en.xml) in a simple csv table and building 
quick&dirty scripts to put it back in mult-def.



 > With our small developer and user base we struggle enough with keeping
 > documentation current.

Struggle likely appears about not-so-trivial needs.

It's a shame not to use it in Italian / Russian / Chinese / French 
etc... for a letter, for a 10 to 20 pages report, for an internal note.

All the more so as the software allows it. The point is that the 
interface just deserves a minimal update and documentation, and that, as 
you point it, the small developer and user base doesn't have time to do it.




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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Hans Hagen]

On 7/18/2020 8:56 PM, Garulfo wrote:
>  > @Garulfo: Do you have a special use case in mind, or do you do this
>  > for fun?
> 
> "for fun" isn't quite right, although there's probably some truth to it.
> Actually, translating 6,300 keywords isn't fun, and it's even worst when 
> you don't really master the material behind...

but i guess you learn a lot in the process

> The point is that I am sad to not be able to offer the use of ConTeXt 
> (such a great piece of software) to friends and childrens.
> And ConTeXt complexity or ConTeXt documentation are not the first hurdles.

indeed (which is why for instance we use the dutch for e.g. family members)

most users actually can do with a limited set of commands to start with 
... and writing a tutorial for that is doable ... it's still on my 
agenda to come up with something for kids and translated interfaces are 
needed for that (unless we ditch all languages for english .. but if 
that happens, we can actually do without tex because a large portion, at 
least in context, is dedicated to dealing with scripts and languages)

> When you start with a new software, a new methodology, having first to 
> struggle with vocabulary in a foreign language is definitively a (BIG) 
> thorn in your side (in fact, usually you just don't start).
> 
> Many popular softwares offer multi-language early in their development 
> (netscape / firefox, scratch, wordpress, krita...).
> ConTeXt did it, the infrastructure is ready, the translations exist, at 
> least partially or at an early stage.

indeed, it was there right from the start ... as a historic note: the 
reason what that we had a subsystem for chemistry which could be 
configured usinng key values (we're talking early nineties) and in order 
to be used in german we made the multi lingual interface (after that the 
english and others lists were added) .. the german was done with Tobias 
Burnus who also helped with the early multi language support)

context goes along way back ...

> And when I started to use it, I thought that it could easily be improved 
> and updated without requiring any Tex / Lua skills.
> 
> One remark : I was wrong, I spend hours to put all the content (from 
> mult-def and context-en.xml) in a simple csv table and building 
> quick&dirty scripts to put it back in mult-def.

(normally i then put up some music or a movies i already saw before in 
the background or some podcast or ...)

>  > With our small developer and user base we struggle enough with keeping
>  > documentation current.
> 
> Struggle likely appears about not-so-trivial needs.
> 
> It's a shame not to use it in Italian / Russian / Chinese / French 
> etc... for a letter, for a 10 to 20 pages report, for an internal note.

exactly ... (btw, tex promotion is often tight to scientific publishing 
but the interesting fact there is that as soon as you drop the formulas 
it often doesn't look that pretty any more .. another property of 
context is that users should be able to make a nice layout)

> All the more so as the software allows it. The point is that the 
> interface just deserves a minimal update and documentation, and that, as 
> you point it, the small developer and user base doesn't have time to do it.
indeed, and sorry for not keeping it up to date

Hans

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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Garulfo]

Hi Wolfgang,

still working on the translation... (Hans pointed out the possibilities 
due to the support of UTF-8, which are just great for french language)

zip: https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:MWE_test_itemize_french.zip

I have difficulties with a simple example
file: MWE_test_itemize_french.tex


% interface=fr
\configurerdétailler[style=gras]
\débuttexte
\débutdétailler[a]
\élément Texte premiere
\élément Texte second
\findétailler
\fintexte

It works properly with "minimal" modifications of mult-def.lua
file: mult-def.lua.initial+diffminimalsetupitemize
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:MWE_test_itemize_french.zip

but with a more complete mult-def.lua
file: mult-def.lua.complet

I get "The control sequence at the end of the top line of your error 
message was never \def'ed. You can just continue as I'll forget about 
whatever was undefined."



Could you please help me find my way around: what do I need to pay 
attention to so that my other modifications don't break the whole mechanism?


Thank you again for your patience
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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Garulfo schrieb am 19.07.2020 um 13:23:
> 
> Hi Wolfgang,
> 
> still working on the translation... (Hans pointed out the possibilities 
> due to the support of UTF-8, which are just great for french language)
> 
> zip: https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:MWE_test_itemize_french.zip
> 
> I have difficulties with a simple example
> file: MWE_test_itemize_french.tex
> 
> % interface=fr
> \configurerdétailler[style=gras]
> \débuttexte
> \débutdétailler[a]
> \élément Texte premiere
> \élément Texte second
> \findétailler
> \fintexte
> 
> It works properly with "minimal" modifications of mult-def.lua
> file: mult-def.lua.initial+diffminimalsetupitemize
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:MWE_test_itemize_french.zip
> 
> but with a more complete mult-def.lua
> file: mult-def.lua.complet
> 
> I get "The control sequence at the end of the top line of your error 
> message was never \def'ed. You can just continue as I'll forget about 
> whatever was undefined."
> 
> Could you please help me find my way around: what do I need to pay 
> attention to so that my other modifications don't break the whole 
> mechanism?

Everything works as expected but you have set a string for the endsetup 
element which has become part of your \setupitemize command.


Setup commands are created in the following way:

<setup string> + <name of the instance> + <endsetup string>

this creates in your case the command

\configurerdétaillerfinconfigurer


As you don't want this leave the value of endsetup empty.

Wolfgang
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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Garulfo]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2170 bytes --]

Thanks a lot !!

I'm beginning to be able to typeset some simple example without any 
struggle.

https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:modele_bonjour_le_monde.pdf

The input file is attached in this mail.

I have only one remaining issue with this example: the indentation.
Despite \setupindenting[medium, yes], the paragraphs are not 
systematically indented, and I don't really understand the pattern 
behind it.

The point is also visible on the original english version
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:Hello-world.pdf



Le 19/07/2020 à 15:13, Wolfgang Schuster a écrit :
> Garulfo schrieb am 19.07.2020 um 13:23:
>>
>> Hi Wolfgang,
>>
>> still working on the translation... (Hans pointed out the 
>> possibilities due to the support of UTF-8, which are just great for 
>> french language)
>>
>> zip: https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:MWE_test_itemize_french.zip
>>
>> I have difficulties with a simple example
>> file: MWE_test_itemize_french.tex
>>
>> % interface=fr
>> \configurerdétailler[style=gras]
>> \débuttexte
>> \débutdétailler[a]
>> \élément Texte premiere
>> \élément Texte second
>> \findétailler
>> \fintexte
>>
>> It works properly with "minimal" modifications of mult-def.lua
>> file: mult-def.lua.initial+diffminimalsetupitemize
>> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:MWE_test_itemize_french.zip
>>
>> but with a more complete mult-def.lua
>> file: mult-def.lua.complet
>>
>> I get "The control sequence at the end of the top line of your error 
>> message was never \def'ed. You can just continue as I'll forget about 
>> whatever was undefined."
>>
>> Could you please help me find my way around: what do I need to pay 
>> attention to so that my other modifications don't break the whole 
>> mechanism?
> 
> Everything works as expected but you have set a string for the endsetup 
> element which has become part of your \setupitemize command.
> 
> 
> Setup commands are created in the following way:
> 
> <setup string> + <name of the instance> + <endsetup string>
> 
> this creates in your case the command
> 
> \configurerdétaillerfinconfigurer
> 
> 
> As you don't want this leave the value of endsetup empty.
> 
> Wolfgang

[-- Attachment #2: modele_bonjour_le_monde.tex --]
[-- Type: text/x-tex, Size: 5999 bytes --]

% interface=fr

% Document "Bonjour tout le monde!" pour le système de composition ConTeXt
%
% === Histoire ===
% 2020-07-18  Garulfo <garulfo@azules.eu>
%     * Passage en français
% 2006-12-29  Sanjoy Mahajan  <sanjoy@mit.edu>
%     * Création
%
% Ce document est du domaine public (pas de droits d'auteur).

%===============================================================================

\configurercouleurs[état=activé]       % sinon le document est en liveau de gris

\définircouleur[couleurtitre][r=0.80,b=0.1,g=0.1]

% Métadata du document
\configurerinteraction[état=activé,        % rendre les liens hypertextes actifs
  titre={Bonjour le monde!},
  soustitre={Un modèle ConTeXt},
  auteur={Garulfo},
  motclé={modèle ConTeXt}]

% urls utiles
\utiliserURL[courriel-auteur][mailto:a.u.teur@quelque.part][][a.u.teur@quelque.part]
\utiliserURL[wiki]           [http://wiki.contextgarden.net][][wiki \ConTeXt\ ]
\utiliserURL[garulfo]        [mailto:garulfo@azules.eu]     [][garulfo@azules.eu]

% Composition format A4, impression format A4
\configurertaillepapier[A4][A4]
\configurermiseenpage
  [ espacehaut=2cm,
    espacearrière=2.5cm,
    entête=24pt,
    pdp=36pt,
    hauteur=milieu,
    largeur=milieu]

% Décommenté ma migne suivant pour visualier la mise en page
% \montrercadre


% en-tête et pied de page

\configurerpdp[style=\italique]
\configurertextespdp[\date \hfill Modèle \ConTeXt]
\configurernumérotationpage[emplacement={entête,droite}, style=gras]

\configurerpolicedecorps[11pt]                                 % 12pt par défaut

\configurertête[section,chapitre,sujet][couleur=couleurtitre]

\configurertête[section,sujet][style={\ss\bfa},
  avant={\grandespace\grandespace}, après={}]

\configurertête[chapitre][style={\ss\bfd}]

\configurertête[titre][style={\ss\bfd},
  avant={\begingroup\configurerpolicedecorps[14pt]},
  après={\lignegauche{\ss\tfa A. U. Teur $\langle$\de[courriel-auteur]$\rangle$}
    \grandespace\grandespace\endgroup}]

\configurerdétailler[entre={}, style=gras]

% configurer l'espacement inter-paragraphes
\configurerespaceblanc[moyen]

% Commenter la ligne suivante pour ne pas indenter les paragraphes
\configurerindentation[oui, moyen, toujours]

\langueprincipale[fr]
\langue[fr]

\configureraligner[tolerant]

\débuttampon[tuftefr]
Nous nous  épanouissons dans les  mondes de l'information  - des mondes  épais -
grâce  à notre  merveilleuse  et quotidienne  capacité  à sélectionner,  éditer,
isoler,  structurer,   mettre  en   évidence,  regrouper,   jumeler,  fusionner,
harmoniser,  synthétiser, concentrer,  organiser,  condenser, réduire,  réduire,
choisir, catégoriser, cataloguer, classer, énumérer, résumer, scanner, examiner,
idéaliser,   isoler,  discriminer,   distinguer,  cribler,   mettre  en   boîte,
sélectionner, trier, intégrer, mélanger,  Inspecter, filtrer, regrouper, sauter,
lisser,  en  morceaux,  moyenner,  approximer,  regrouper,  agréger,  délimiter,
résumer, détailler,  passer en revue,  plonger, feuilleter, parcourir,  jeter un
coup d'œil, feuilleter, parcourir, affiner, énumérer, glaner, synoptiser, vanner
le blé de la balle et séparer les moutons des chèvres.
\fintampon

%===============================================================================

\débuttexte

\titre{Bonjour le monde!}

Ceci est  un document modèle  \citer{Bonjour le monde}, pour  illustrer quelques
unes  des  fonctionnalités  de  \ConTeXt.   Amusez-vous.   Vous  pouvez  trouver
beaucoup  plus d'information  sur le  \de[wiki];  le texte  précédant doit  être
coloré et clicable, et un clic devrait vous amener sur le wiki.

\débutsujet[titre=Une liste]

Voici un exemple de liste

\débutdétailler[a]                                  % tags are lowercase letters
\élément premier
\élément second
\élément troisième
\findétailler

\finsujet

%-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\débutsujet[titre=Mathématiques]

Une équation  peut-être mise en  forme en ligne,  telle que $e^{\pi  i}+1=0$, ou
bien en formule

\débutformule
\int_0^\infty t^4 e^{-t}\,dt = 24.
\finformule

Vous pouvez également numéroter les équations :

\placerformule[eq:exemple_01_formule]
\débutformule
\int_0^\infty t^5 e^{-t}\,dt = 120.
\finformule

Il est possible ensuite d'y faire référence par leur now. L'équation précédent a
été    nommée     {\mono    eq:exemple_01_formule}    et     c'est    l'équation
\dans[eq:exemple_01_formule].  \ConTeXt\ calcule la  numérotation pour vous.  Et
par l'activation des fonctionnalités d'interaction,  le numéro de l'équation est
un lien hypertexte vers l'équation elle-même.

\obtenirtampon[tuftefr]

\finsujet

%-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\débutsujet[titre=Texte avec des figures]

Maintenant, du texte  avec quelques figures. La première image  est disposée sur
la droite, le paragraphe s'écoulant autour d'elle.

\placerfigure[droite,aucun]{}{\figureexterne[factice]}

\obtenirtampon[tuftefr]

La prochaine figure sera positionnée sur sa propre ligne :
\placerfigure[ici,aucun]{}{\figureexterne[factice]}

\obtenirtampon[tuftefr]

Voici    une   autre    référence   à    l'équation   numérotée    --   équation
\dans[eq:exemple_01_formule] à  la \en{page}[eq:exemple_01_formule] --  afin que
vous puissiez cliquer dessus ou sur le numéro de page également référencé.

\finsujet

%-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
% La majorité des commandes TeX simple fonctionnent

\vfill

\encadré[coin=rond,
  largeur=\textwidth,
  hauteur=2.5cm,
  couleurarrièreplan=gris,
  arrièreplan=couleur]
{Ce  document est  dans le  domaine public,  ainsi vous  pouvez l'améliorer,  le
  partager, autrement dit en faire ce  que vous souhaitez.  Les suggestions sont
  les bienvenues. Vous pouvez me les envoyer à \de[garulfo] (Garulfo).}

\fintexte

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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 7/19/20 8:27 PM, Garulfo wrote:
> Thanks a lot !!
>
> I'm beginning to be able to typeset some simple example without any
> struggle.
>
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:modele_bonjour_le_monde.pdf
>
> The input file is attached in this mail.

Congratulation for your excellent work, Garulfo.

Your translation is really amazing.

> I have only one remaining issue with this example: the indentation.
> Despite \setupindenting[medium, yes], the paragraphs are not
> systematically indented, and I don't really understand the pattern
> behind it.

The default is "indentnext=no" for \setupheads and \setupfloats.

The pattern is clear: see what comes before the unindented paragraph.

BTW, I don’t understand this:

  \langueprincipale[fr]
  \langue[fr]

Is \mainlanguage not enough? (This would also set \language.)

    \mainlanguage[fr]
    \starttext
    \startTEXpage[offset=2em]
    mainlanguage:
    {\tt\currentmainlanguage}

    language:
    {\tt\currentlanguage}
    \stopTEXpage
    \stoptext

I hope it helps,

Pablo
--
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Hans Hagen]

On 7/19/2020 8:27 PM, Garulfo wrote:

>>> file: mult-def.lua.complet
i'll have a look at it

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Garulfo]

file name can be confusing, it's not yet complete
	
Type	        Names	Translations    Achievement		
commands	3962	954		24%
constants	841	708		84%
elements	26	25		DONE
setupstrings	135	56		41%
variables	1330	680		51%
                 6294	2423		39%


Following your feedbacks, I will update it and improve its consistency.

As you advised, I will try first to complete constants and variables 
(keys/values) during July and August.

And, if it makes sense for ConTeXt's community to use it as a "new" or 
an "updated" french interface, I may try to produce a 40~50 pages 
documentation for the basics commands (during 2020 S2):

• \starttext
• \startchapter, \startsection, \starttitle, \startsubject,
\setuphead,  \completecontent
• \em, \bf, \cap,
• \startitemize, \startitem,  \starthead,
• \placefigure, \externalfigure,
• \placetable, \starttable,\starttabulate, \setupTABLE, \bTABLE
• \index, \completeindex
• \setuplayout, \setupfootertexts et \setupheadertexts
• \definedescription, \defineenumeration
• \at, \in


Anyway, thanks again for your support.


Le 19/07/2020 à 22:55, Hans Hagen a écrit :
> On 7/19/2020 8:27 PM, Garulfo wrote:
> 
>>>> file: mult-def.lua.complet
> i'll have a look at it
> 
> Hans
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                            Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>                Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>         tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
> 
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry 
> to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
> 
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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Garulfo]

> And, if it makes sense for ConTeXt's community to use it as a "new" or 
> an "updated" french interface, I may try to produce a 40~50 pages 
> documentation for the basics commands (during 2020 S2):

or even better, I will try to use Paul + Taco + Wolfgang documentation 
framework through the wiki.
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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Hans Hagen]

On 7/20/2020 12:04 AM, Garulfo wrote:
>> And, if it makes sense for ConTeXt's community to use it as a "new" or 
>> an "updated" french interface, I may try to produce a 40~50 pages 
>> documentation for the basics commands (during 2020 S2):
> 
> or even better, I will try to use Paul + Taco + Wolfgang documentation 
> framework through the wiki.
fwiw:

the topline of a document can have

% interface=fr

which will trigger the right run

Hans


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Hans Hagen]

Hi Garulfo,

I uploaded a version that has some of the tranmslations merged in. I'll 
now check some more, but I also saw some issues.

A criterium is that translations of variables and constants only are for 
those that internally are used as v! and c! while for instance the s! 
are untranslated (they often are so very 'system' that translation does 
more harm than good. So, we don't translate some font related keys 
simply because in many cases the styles etc are not guaranteed coded 
neutral (most are)). It doesn't harm to have non-used entries in the 
table but best play clean.

Special cases are for instance metapost things, so we don't translate an 
instance name 'lessfun'. Again, it does no harm to have the entries but 
there is no such 'moinsfun' defined because this is a system key. A 
general rule can be:

- things we do in styles that are very unlikely to be done by users of 
an interface don't need a translation.

- very basic system things neither (\startluacode for instance; we can 
of course provide a translated variant but current we don't yet)

- commands like \AfterPar ... debatable, as we might actually have 
better alternatives for that ; the same for NormalizeFontHeight (not 
that many such camelcase names btw, often old macros that come from 
modules we made first)

- Logos like MetaFont: no need for translation

- beware of defining primitives (notr sure why kern was in the 
translated table)

Anyway, I assume wolfgang will check changes too. We just stepwise add 
what was missing (indeed there were commands not in the list yet; some 
are generated commands, so maybe I also need to make sure the english 
variant keeps available just in case it's used deep down for some 
reason, often that is already the case so not that much danger).

More later, I assume you put the latest files on the gardne (your zip),

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Garulfo schrieb am 19.07.2020 um 20:27:
> Thanks a lot !!
> 
> I'm beginning to be able to typeset some simple example without any 
> struggle.
> 
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:modele_bonjour_le_monde.pdf
> 
> The input file is attached in this mail.
> 
> I have only one remaining issue with this example: the indentation.
> Despite \setupindenting[medium, yes], the paragraphs are not 
> systematically indented, and I don't really understand the pattern 
> behind it.
> 
> The point is also visible on the original english version
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:Hello-world.pdf

Nice work but a few changes are needed:

- You change the english text for the endsetup element which should be empty

- A few commands should remain english, e.g. \AfterPar or \newsystemmode 
because they are only used in the core or in modules which should work 
independent of the interface language

- A few of the setupstring entries are broken, e.g. cd:font appear twice 
and the second entry is wrong

- It would be nice to have a consistent language order, in the existing 
entries you moved french to the bottom but in new entries you move 
french to the top

Wolfgang
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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Aditya Mahajan]

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On Sun, 19 Jul 2020, Garulfo wrote:

> Thanks a lot !!
>
> I'm beginning to be able to typeset some simple example without any struggle.
>
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:modele_bonjour_le_monde.pdf
>
> The input file is attached in this mail.

Thanks for all the hard work. Some minor comments on the sample file (some of them also apply to the English version).

1. You don't need

   \configurercouleurs[état=activé]

That is the default in MkIV and LMTX.

2. Also:

    \utiliserURL[wiki]           [http://wiki.contextgarden.net][][wiki \ConTeXt\ ]

It may be better to use `\ConTeXT{}` with no space afterwards.

3. Why use abbreviated names:

    \configurerpdp[style=\italique]
    \configurertextespdp[\date \hfill Modèle \ConTeXt]

I am guessing `pdp` is somehow an abbreviation of `footer`. One of the things that I really like about ConTeXt compared to LaTeX is that there are no funny abbreviations.

It might be better to use

         \configurertextespdp[\date][Modèle \ConTeXt]

4. It may be better to reword \citer. That might create confusion with the bibliography commands which use \cite.

5. I am not sure why you include an example of buffers in this document. If it was just to have some filler text, I think that after all this work you can persuade Hans to include a sample file from a French author in the distribution :-)

Aditya


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Re: french translation of ConTeXt interface - progress (v3)

[Jairo A. del Rio]

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I guess pdp is "Pied de page". I don't speak French, but it is close enough
to Spanish. Maybe we should do a translation to Spanish too.

Congratulations for your colossal effort, Garulfo.

Jairo :)

El dom., 19 de jul. de 2020 11:49 p. m., Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu>
escribió:

> On Sun, 19 Jul 2020, Garulfo wrote:
>
> > Thanks a lot !!
> >
> > I'm beginning to be able to typeset some simple example without any
> struggle.
> >
> > https://wiki.contextgarden.net/File:modele_bonjour_le_monde.pdf
> >
> > The input file is attached in this mail.
>
> Thanks for all the hard work. Some minor comments on the sample file (some
> of them also apply to the English version).
>
> 1. You don't need
>
>    \configurercouleurs[état=activé]
>
> That is the default in MkIV and LMTX.
>
> 2. Also:
>
>     \utiliserURL[wiki]           [http://wiki.contextgarden.net][][wiki
> \ConTeXt\ ]
>
> It may be better to use `\ConTeXT{}` with no space afterwards.
>
> 3. Why use abbreviated names:
>
>     \configurerpdp[style=\italique]
>     \configurertextespdp[\date \hfill Modèle \ConTeXt]
>
> I am guessing `pdp` is somehow an abbreviation of `footer`. One of the
> things that I really like about ConTeXt compared to LaTeX is that there are
> no funny abbreviations.
>
> It might be better to use
>
>          \configurertextespdp[\date][Modèle \ConTeXt]
>
> 4. It may be better to reword \citer. That might create confusion with the
> bibliography commands which use \cite.
>
> 5. I am not sure why you include an example of buffers in this document.
> If it was just to have some filler text, I think that after all this work
> you can persuade Hans to include a sample file from a French author in the
> distribution :-)
>
> Aditya
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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