From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/56714 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: James Fisher Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Occasional words sticking out from flush-right Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 23:31:58 +0000 Message-ID: <771da05a1003041531p74f2857awb1e95ff57ee3bd3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100303215354.GB2029@phare.normalesup.org> <771da05a1003031519w7803d7dcn9cb4c52be548ffec@mail.gmail.com> <771da05a1003031835m721cc2ccqb8832224b09c921@mail.gmail.com> <771da05a1003040625h57b76829r11dea4cb4c800a16@mail.gmail.com> <771da05a1003041144y6fd1f9dboc21cd3debd4a60a5@mail.gmail.com> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0642849842==" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1267753802 14489 80.91.229.12 (5 Mar 2010 01:50:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:50:02 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Fri Mar 05 02:49:53 2010 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([195.12.62.10]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NnMVL-0001Y0-S9 for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 02:39:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B4DEC9CB7; Fri, 5 Mar 2010 00:32:14 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id EUzx6VChHXNG; Fri, 5 Mar 2010 00:32:11 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89A65C9CCD; Fri, 5 Mar 2010 00:32:11 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3543DC9CCD for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2010 00:32:09 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id QoNFgf1b2NGo for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2010 00:32:03 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com (ey-out-1920.google.com [74.125.78.148]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B1EBC9CB7 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2010 00:32:03 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 13so553938eye.6 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 2010 15:32:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=CDf94UMPsADlKbeZJGZ1epZ1lDkLNxDI4M6wM1si3NE=; b=m5BS8ceM/Lpi0IOuyPsvN8fx/wnPzjYHq7vTd1R1QqNc+PJwTppcB5glott7k4UNmV ubtzCNPl073SlSJjiEH+2nr8E3K9yaxEgbDELbVm1mghVitfcgb0j3b3FCst0poEFHoB a8mHPfI6w5/v0EgDHOWEwoQExbZ45GUrHJ/wg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=DhSOpZEvuRNrfxoYZ6tp+bppzpWqP9coBtun5tUz6hI0oTU0m4T2wOEQpLuJdM8tdM QmcgcSXJ0worNetCnonQnvC3LNno9YCbCODogZqFyKv/6i4srEKgJJ37J9dyEIMYyKlc s8DR/OL3WI+IacP5YhCnXpfW5UEXMrnMxcKXU= Original-Received: by 10.213.109.212 with SMTP id k20mr60503ebp.32.1267745519656; Thu, 04 Mar 2010 15:31:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:56714 Archived-At: --===============0642849842== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cdfd7d25d792d04810201ef --000e0cdfd7d25d792d04810201ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 (Can I leave all of this for a bit? I'll reply tomorrow, I think, but first...) I'd like to go back to the very first post about problems with flush right. The \setbreakpoints command works to an extent, but I'm still experiencing issues where, when a hyphenated string has been broken, the first half of it still sticks out. I unfortunately can't show you the example, and it's hard to reproduce. But can anyone answer: does the TeX line-breaking algorithm retain the possibility of lines overrunning the defined boundary, if the algorithm decides that the alternatives are more ugly? James On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 8:47 PM, luigi scarso wrote: > On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 8:44 PM, James Fisher > wrote: > >ConTeXt was not created to produce documentation for ConTeXt. > This is not the point. > The point is that code documentation of ConTeXt can be made with ConTeXt . > see for example http://foundry.supelec.fr/gf/project/modules/scmsvn > We don't need Sphinx or similar, but > of course Hans can decide to use it. > > > HTML is typographically crude, but, and this > > is important, *informationally*, HTML (and the web and friends) is far > from > > crude. > true and your job is good. > > > Mmm, yes, you've made quite a lot of demands there on the curious > programmer > > having stumbled across ConTeXt ... > None is saying that it's easy. And, really, it's not easy. > > > I don't think so. The "just study the code" approach shows an awfully > > austere, reductionist philosophy. > True but I have not said this. > TeX comes with TeXBook ("high-mid-low" level" manual ) > and Tex-The program- (the code) > It's the same here, more or less. > > > Humans understand things from the top > > down. It's the computers that work from the bottom up. > Humans understand things in bottom-up, top-down , try-and-error and > probably other ways > that we can understand enough to formalize. > Working with TeX is a mix of bottom-up, top-down try-and-error and fortune. > > > > > I think you're thinking of 'forking' as something dangerous (yeah, the > word > > sounds painful), as something that will fragment the community, as > something > > that destroys the concept of 'authority'. It's really not. Where you > get > > forking you get merging at roughly the same rate. > No, not dangerous. Actually useless . And yes, actually community and > authority > are important in this context. > Why is so hard to understand ? > > > Why are they the only contributors? > See Aditya. > Apart from translations, Taco and Hans are the only persons that > actually are able to produce a > minimal, complete and exhaustive documentation. > > -- > luigi > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to > the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > --000e0cdfd7d25d792d04810201ef Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (Can I leave all of this for a bit?=A0 I'll reply tomorrow, I think, bu= t first...)

I'd like to go back to the very first post about pro= blems with flush right.=A0 The \setbreakpoints command works to an extent, = but I'm still experiencing issues where, when a hyphenated string has b= een broken, the first half of it still sticks out.=A0 I unfortunately can&#= 39;t show you the example, and it's hard to reproduce.=A0 But can anyon= e answer: does the TeX line-breaking algorithm retain the possibility of li= nes overrunning the defined boundary, if the algorithm decides that the alt= ernatives are more ugly?

James

On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 8:47 PM,= luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 8:44 PM, James Fisher <jameshfisher@gmail.com> wrote: >ConTeXt was not created to produce documentation for ConTeXt.
This is not =A0the point.
The point is that code documentation =A0of ConTeXt can be made with ConTeXt= .
see for example http://foundry.supelec.fr/gf/project/modules/scmsvn<= /a>
We don't need Sphinx or similar, but
of course Hans can decide to use it.

>=A0 HTML is typographically crude, but, and this
> is important, *informationally*, HTML (and the web and friends) is far= from
> crude.
true and your job is good.

> Mmm, yes, you've made quite a lot of demands there on the curious = programmer
> having stumbled across ConTeXt ...
None is saying that it's easy. And, really, =A0it's not easy.=

> I don't think so.=A0 The "just study the code" approach = shows an awfully
> austere, reductionist philosophy.
True but =A0I have not said this.
TeX comes with TeXBook ("high-mid-low" level" manual )
and Tex-The program- (the code)
It's the same here, more or less.

> Humans understand things from the top
> down.=A0 It's the computers that work from the bottom up.
Humans understand things in bottom-up, top-down , try-and-error and probably other ways
that =A0we can understand enough to formalize.
Working with TeX is a mix of bottom-up, top-down try-and-error and fortune.=

>
> I think you're thinking of 'forking' as something dangerou= s (yeah, the word
> sounds painful), as something that will fragment the community, as som= ething
> that destroys the concept of 'authority'.=A0 It's really n= ot.=A0 Where you get
> forking you get merging at roughly the same rate.
No, not dangerous. Actually useless . And yes, actually community and= authority
are important in this context.
Why is so hard to understand ?

> Why are they the only contributors?
See Aditya.
Apart from translations, Taco and Hans are the only persons that
actually are able to produce a
minimal, complete and exhaustive =A0documentation.

--
luigi
___________________________________________________________________________= ________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / <= a href=3D"http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context" target=3D"_blank"= >http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage =A0: http://= www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive =A0: http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki =A0 =A0 : http:= //contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________= ________

--000e0cdfd7d25d792d04810201ef-- --===============0642849842== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============0642849842==--