greek items broken:

greek items broken:

[Meer, H. van der]

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I do not get lowercase greek letters on the itemize as should happen with symbol setup g.
A minimal example, showing the demise of lowercase greek against succes for uppercase.

\starttext
\startitemize[g]
\startitem nr 1\stopitem
\startitem nr 2\stopitem
\startitem nr 3\stopitem
\startitem nr 4\stopitem
\stopitemize
\startitemize[G]
\startitem nr 1\stopitem
\startitem nr 2\stopitem
\startitem nr 3\stopitem
\startitem nr 4\stopitem
\stopitemize
\stoptext


Hans van der Meer




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Re: greek items broken:

[Wolfgang Schuster]

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Am 08.05.2012 um 19:32 schrieb Meer, H. van der:

> I do not get lowercase greek letters on the itemize as should happen with symbol setup g.
> A minimal example, showing the demise of lowercase greek against succes for uppercase.

It’s a font problem because MkII took the greek letters from the math font but MkIV
takes them from the text font and Latin Modern doesn’t have lower case greek letters.

Wolfgang

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Re: greek items broken:

[Meer, H. van der]

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On 8 mei 2012, at 22:25, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:


Am 08.05.2012 um 19:32 schrieb Meer, H. van der:

I do not get lowercase greek letters on the itemize as should happen with symbol setup g.
A minimal example, showing the demise of lowercase greek against succes for uppercase.

It’s a font problem because MkII took the greek letters from the math font but MkIV
takes them from the text font and Latin Modern doesn’t have lower case greek letters.

Thanks. I was not aware of that problem.
Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is quite a nuisance. Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv solution?

Hans van der Meer


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Re: greek items broken:

[Hans Hagen]

On 9-5-2012 09:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:
>
> On 8 mei 2012, at 22:25, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
>
> Am 08.05.2012 um 19:32 schrieb Meer, H. van der:
>
> I do not get lowercase greek letters on the itemize as should happen with symbol setup g.
> A minimal example, showing the demise of lowercase greek against succes for uppercase.
>
> It’s a font problem because MkII took the greek letters from the math font but MkIV
> takes them from the text font and Latin Modern doesn’t have lower case greek letters.
>
> Thanks. I was not aware of that problem.
> Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
> But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is quite a nuisance. Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv solution?

- you can define a combined font that gets greek from a math font
- you can define a conversion that takes greek from a math font

(the second one could then be hooked into the 'g' option)

Hans

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Re: greek items broken:

[Meer, H. van der]

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On 9 mei 2012, at 11:15, Hans Hagen wrote:

On 9-5-2012 09:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:

On 8 mei 2012, at 22:25, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:


Am 08.05.2012 um 19:32 schrieb Meer, H. van der:

I do not get lowercase greek letters on the itemize as should happen with symbol setup g.
A minimal example, showing the demise of lowercase greek against succes for uppercase.

It’s a font problem because MkII took the greek letters from the math font but MkIV
takes them from the text font and Latin Modern doesn’t have lower case greek letters.

Thanks. I was not aware of that problem.
Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is quite a nuisance. Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv solution?

- you can define a combined font that gets greek from a math font
- you can define a conversion that takes greek from a math font

(the second one could then be hooked into the 'g' option)


I see, although I have not the faintest notion how to accomplish that.

Hans van der Meer





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Re: greek items broken:

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 09.05.2012 um 11:50 schrieb Meer, H. van der:

> 
> On 9 mei 2012, at 11:15, Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
>> On 9-5-2012 09:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 8 mei 2012, at 22:25, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Am 08.05.2012 um 19:32 schrieb Meer, H. van der:
>>> 
>>> I do not get lowercase greek letters on the itemize as should happen with symbol setup g.
>>> A minimal example, showing the demise of lowercase greek against succes for uppercase.
>>> 
>>> It’s a font problem because MkII took the greek letters from the math font but MkIV
>>> takes them from the text font and Latin Modern doesn’t have lower case greek letters.
>>> 
>>> Thanks. I was not aware of that problem.
>>> Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
>>> But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is quite a nuisance. Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv solution?
>> 
>> - you can define a combined font that gets greek from a math font
>> - you can define a conversion that takes greek from a math font
>> 
>> (the second one could then be hooked into the 'g' option)
> 
> 
> I see, although I have not the faintest notion how to accomplish that.

\defineconversion [mathgreek]
  [\m{α},\m{β},\m{γ},\m{δ},\m{ε},\m{ζ},
   \m{η},\m{θ},\m{ι},\m{κ},\m{λ},\m{μ},
   \m{ν},\m{ξ},\m{ο},\m{π},\m{ρ},\m{σ},
   \m{τ},\m{υ},\m{φ},\m{χ},\m{ψ},\m{ω}]

%\setupbodyfont[lucidaot]

\starttext
\starttabulate
\NC greek     \EQ \dorecurse{24}{\convertnumber    {greek}{\recurselevel} } \NC\NR
\NC mathgreek \EQ \dorecurse{24}{\convertnumber{mathgreek}{\recurselevel} } \NC\NR
\stoptabulate
\stoptext

Wolfgang

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Re: greek items broken:

[Philipp Gesang]

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Hi Hans,
On 2012-05-09 07:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:
> Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
> But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is
> quite a nuisance. Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv
> solution?

if it’s generic enough for your purpose, you can take the glyphs
from the Computer Modern Unicode font instead. They can be an
appropriate match for LM.

········································································
\unprotect

\def\cmu_numerals#1#2{%
  \bgroup
  \setupbodyfont [computer-modern-unicode]
  \csname #1reeknumerals\endcsname{#2}%
  \egroup%
}
\defineconversion [cmu_greek] [\cmu_numerals{g}]
\defineconversion [cmu_Greek] [\cmu_numerals{G}]

\protect

\starttext

Before: τὸ γὰρ αὐτὸ νοεῖν ἐστίν τε καὶ εἶναι (no greek)

\startitemize[cmu_greek] \dorecurse{5}{\item foo} \stopitemize
\startitemize[cmu_Greek] \dorecurse{5}{\item bar} \stopitemize

After: τὸ γὰρ αὐτὸ νοεῖν ἐστίν τε καὶ εἶναι (no greek)

\stoptext
········································································

Nitpick: The macro names are a bit misleading here: these are not
in fact Greek numerals[1] but just the plain alphabetical
sequence of Greek letters, just like \characters for the Latin
alphabet. This sequence does not continue after it reaches ω. So
it might be more precise to call the macros \{g|G}reekcharacters.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_numerals

Regards
Philipp


> 
> Hans van der Meer
> 

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Re: greek items broken:

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> Hi Hans,
> On 2012-05-09 07:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:
>> Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
>> But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is
>> quite a nuisance. Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv
>> solution?
>
> if it’s generic enough for your purpose, you can take the glyphs
> from the Computer Modern Unicode font instead.

If he wants to use Lucida, this would look bad, but the Lucida font
does have greek glyphs, however they are in the "math range". This is
the case for LM, Lucida and probably a few more fonts. (Another option
would be to define the counter to run through greek letters in math
font.)

Mojca
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Re: greek items broken:

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2012-05-09 12:25, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> > Hi Hans,
> > On 2012-05-09 07:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:
> >> Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
> >> But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is
> >> quite a nuisance. Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv
> >> solution?
> >
> > if it’s generic enough for your purpose, you can take the glyphs
> > from the Computer Modern Unicode font instead.
> 
> If he wants to use Lucida, this would look bad, but the Lucida font
> does have greek glyphs, however they are in the "math range".

With unicode I thought this was an archaism.

>                                                               This is
> the case for LM, Lucida and probably a few more fonts. (Another option
> would be to define the counter to run through greek letters in math
> font.)

Or to leave the counter untouched and wrap it into a substitution
function -- is there a chance you (or anyone else) could supply
me with a mapping of the “real” Greek code point to the “math
Greek” one?

Philipp

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Re: greek items broken:

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> On 2012-05-09 12:25, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>
>> If he wants to use Lucida, this would look bad, but the Lucida font
>> does have greek glyphs, however they are in the "math range".
>
> With unicode I thought this was an archaism.

I'm sorry, I'm telling you nonsense. There are no Greek letters in
LucidaBrightOT, but they are present in LucidaBrightMathOT. The italic
version starts at 1D6FC and the regural one is in the "normal" Greek
range.

>>                                                               This is
>> the case for LM, Lucida and probably a few more fonts. (Another option
>> would be to define the counter to run through greek letters in math
>> font.)
>
> Or to leave the counter untouched and wrap it into a substitution
> function -- is there a chance you (or anyone else) could supply
> me with a mapping of the “real” Greek code point to the “math
> Greek” one?

See math-map.lua. If you need any help or explanation, please ask. I
believe that the following part might be relevant (but only if you
need italic):

    lcgreek   = {
        [0x03B1]=0x1D6FC, [0x03B2]=0x1D6FD, [0x03B3]=0x1D6FE,
[0x03B4]=0x1D6FF, [0x03B5]=0x1D700,
        [0x03B6]=0x1D701, [0x03B7]=0x1D702, [0x03B8]=0x1D703,
[0x03B9]=0x1D704, [0x03BA]=0x1D705,
        [0x03BB]=0x1D706, [0x03BC]=0x1D707, [0x03BD]=0x1D708,
[0x03BE]=0x1D709, [0x03BF]=0x1D70A,
        [0x03C0]=0x1D70B, [0x03C1]=0x1D70C, [0x03C2]=0x1D70D,
[0x03C3]=0x1D70E, [0x03C4]=0x1D70F,
        [0x03C5]=0x1D710, [0x03C6]=0x1D711, [0x03C7]=0x1D712,
[0x03C8]=0x1D713, [0x03C9]=0x1D714,
        [0x03D1]=0x1D717, [0x03D5]=0x1D719, [0x03D6]=0x1D71B,
[0x03F0]=0x1D718, [0x03F1]=0x1D71A,
        [0x03F4]=0x1D6F3, [0x03F5]=0x1D716,
    },

For regular variant of Lucida it should be enough to use Math font
instead of the normal one, but I didn't test or write any code for it.
For LM you would have to use the italic version since upright (without
resorting to cm-unicode) looks horrible anyway.

Mojca
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Re: greek items broken:

[Philipp Gesang]

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On 2012-05-09 13:50, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> > On 2012-05-09 12:25, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> >
> >> If he wants to use Lucida, this would look bad, but the Lucida font
> >> does have greek glyphs, however they are in the "math range".
> >
> > With unicode I thought this was an archaism.
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm telling you nonsense. There are no Greek letters in
> LucidaBrightOT, but they are present in LucidaBrightMathOT. The italic
> version starts at 1D6FC and the regural one is in the "normal" Greek
> range.
> 
> >>                                                               This is
> >> the case for LM, Lucida and probably a few more fonts. (Another option
> >> would be to define the counter to run through greek letters in math
> >> font.)
> >
> > Or to leave the counter untouched and wrap it into a substitution
> > function -- is there a chance you (or anyone else) could supply
> > me with a mapping of the “real” Greek code point to the “math
> > Greek” one?
> 
> See math-map.lua. If you need any help or explanation, please ask. I
> believe that the following part might be relevant (but only if you
> need italic):
> 
>     lcgreek   = {
>         [0x03B1]=0x1D6FC, [0x03B2]=0x1D6FD, [0x03B3]=0x1D6FE,
> [0x03B4]=0x1D6FF, [0x03B5]=0x1D700,
>         [0x03B6]=0x1D701, [0x03B7]=0x1D702, [0x03B8]=0x1D703,
> [0x03B9]=0x1D704, [0x03BA]=0x1D705,
>         [0x03BB]=0x1D706, [0x03BC]=0x1D707, [0x03BD]=0x1D708,
> [0x03BE]=0x1D709, [0x03BF]=0x1D70A,
>         [0x03C0]=0x1D70B, [0x03C1]=0x1D70C, [0x03C2]=0x1D70D,
> [0x03C3]=0x1D70E, [0x03C4]=0x1D70F,
>         [0x03C5]=0x1D710, [0x03C6]=0x1D711, [0x03C7]=0x1D712,
> [0x03C8]=0x1D713, [0x03C9]=0x1D714,
>         [0x03D1]=0x1D717, [0x03D5]=0x1D719, [0x03D6]=0x1D71B,
> [0x03F0]=0x1D718, [0x03F1]=0x1D71A,
>         [0x03F4]=0x1D6F3, [0x03F5]=0x1D716,
>     },

Yeah, appears to be the correct range. Couldn’t test with Lucida,
though.

> For regular variant of Lucida it should be enough to use Math font
> instead of the normal one, but I didn't test or write any code for it.
> For LM you would have to use the italic version since upright (without
> resorting to cm-unicode) looks horrible anyway.

But if there’s a math font, I’d go with the example that Wolfgang
posted; alternatively just wrap the converter into \mathematics:

········································································
\unprotect
\def\math_greek_characters#1{\mathematics{\greeknumerals{#1}}}
\defineconversion [mathgreek] [\math_greek_characters]
\protect
········································································

etc. It will depend on your choice of math font whether you get
italics or upright glyphs.

Philipp


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Re: greek items broken:

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 1:50 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
>> On 2012-05-09 12:25, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>
>>> If he wants to use Lucida, this would look bad, but the Lucida font
>>> does have greek glyphs, however they are in the "math range".
>>
>> With unicode I thought this was an archaism.
>
> I'm sorry, I'm telling you nonsense. There are no Greek letters in
> LucidaBrightOT, but they are present in LucidaBrightMathOT.

Also, Charles Bigelow just answered that there are plans to include
Greek letters into Lucida Bright. This might not help you solve the
problem in short term, but the future seems Bright ;)

Mojca
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Re: greek items broken:

[Khaled Hosny]

On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 05:14:39PM +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> but the future seems Bright ;)

We should have named the fonts Lucida Brighter and Lucida Saner etc. ;)

Regards,
 Khaled
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Re: greek items broken:

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 09.05.2012 um 11:54 schrieb Philipp Gesang:

> Hi Hans,
> On 2012-05-09 07:31, Meer, H. van der wrote:
>> Indeed, the greek lowercase appears with \setupbodyfont[postscript].
>> But not with the brandnew \setupbodyfont[lucidaot], which is
>> quite a nuisance. Can it be remedied with a more generic mkiv
>> solution?
> 
> if it’s generic enough for your purpose, you can take the glyphs
> from the Computer Modern Unicode font instead. They can be an
> appropriate match for LM.
> 
> ········································································
> \unprotect
> 
> \def\cmu_numerals#1#2{%
>  \bgroup
>  \setupbodyfont [computer-modern-unicode]
>  \csname #1reeknumerals\endcsname{#2}%
>  \egroup%
> }

Use \switchtobodyfont for local font switches.

\def\cmu_numerals#1#2%
  {\bgroup
   \switchtobodyfont[computer-modern-unicode]%
   \convertnumber{#1}{#2}%
   \egroup}

Wolfgang
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