Roll-Your-Own Stand-Alone (Was re. ConTeXt ultraminimals)

Roll-Your-Own Stand-Alone (Was re. ConTeXt ultraminimals)

[Joel C. Salomon]

I'm working on ConTeXt+SciTE-on-a-USB-Stick.  A downloadable program
is still far off, as is a version that can be put on PortableApps.com,
but I've gotten to the point of mapping out the basic parameters:

• We need to have a start-up program, which will set up the
environment and start SciTE and/or a command prompt.
• Legacy-free is nice, but if ConTeXt+XeTeX (which I'll call "mkiii"
whether that's an official name or no) requires texexec then we need
to include Ruby anyway, so we may as well keep PDFTeX (mkii), BUT:
• Since my Windows machine already has Perl, Python, & Ruby, I'm going
to defer working on that last point.
• In fact, I'm going to defer including SciTE also, until I have a
working stand-alone ConTeXt…

I've put my rsync invocations on the wiki.  (Since the calls are so
closely tied to the directory structure of the Minimals, I added them
to <http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Minimals/Structure> as an
example of how to use & customize them, but I'll move it if folks
think it belongs elsewhere.)

Also, the commands I'm using to generate my formats are on that page.
Could someone please check them for sanity?

--Joel
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Re: Roll-Your-Own Stand-Alone (Was re. ConTeXt ultraminimals)

[Joel C. Salomon]

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Joel C. Salomon <joelcsalomon@gmail.com> wrote:
>  I've put my rsync invocations on the wiki.

BTW, I realize that the rsync calls will have to change whenever the
directory tree does, so maybe handing this off to mtx-update is a
better idea.  I need to think on this some more.

>  Also, the commands I'm using to generate my formats are on that page.
>  Could someone please check them for sanity?

Well, I tried them, and I can typeset a "hello world" document with
PDFTeX, XeTeX, and luaTeX.  Looks good so far.

--Joel
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Re: Roll-Your-Own Stand-Alone (Was re. ConTeXt ultraminimals)

[Hans Hagen]

Joel C. Salomon wrote:

> I'm working on ConTeXt+SciTE-on-a-USB-Stick.  A downloadable program
> is still far off, as is a version that can be put on PortableApps.com,
> but I've gotten to the point of mapping out the basic parameters:
> 
> • We need to have a start-up program, which will set up the
> environment and start SciTE and/or a command prompt.
> • Legacy-free is nice, but if ConTeXt+XeTeX (which I'll call "mkiii"
> whether that's an official name or no) requires texexec then we need

just mkii, at least for a long time -)

> to include Ruby anyway, so we may as well keep PDFTeX (mkii), BUT:
> • Since my Windows machine already has Perl, Python, & Ruby, I'm going
> to defer working on that last point.

we dont't need full perl and ruby; perl only when you want to use 
mptopdf, which is not needed because texexec can do the same; so, a 
small ruby is enough

> • In fact, I'm going to defer including SciTE also, until I have a
> working stand-alone ConTeXt…

there is a startup script in the cdwincontext zip

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Roll-Your-Own Stand-Alone (Was re. ConTeXt ultraminimals)

[Joel C. Salomon]

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>  > I'm going to defer working on [Perl & Ruby].
>
>  we dont't need full perl and ruby; perl only when you want to use
>  mptopdf, which is not needed because texexec can do the same; so, a
>  small ruby is enough

So does anyone on the list have any experience in packaging a
stripped-down Ruby?

>  > I'm going to defer including SciTE until I have a working stand-alone ConTeXt
>
>  there is a startup script in the cdwincontext zip

Do you mean cscite.bat?  Looks like a good place to start.

--Joel
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Re: Roll-Your-Own Stand-Alone (Was re. ConTeXt ultraminimals)

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Joel C. Salomon wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>  >  > I'm going to defer working on [Perl & Ruby].
>
> >
>  >  we dont't need full perl and ruby; perl only when you want to use
>  >  mptopdf, which is not needed because texexec can do the same; so, a
>  >  small ruby is enough

Is it also possible to use MK IV (or some other lua scripts) to
convert .mp files to PDF by any chance? (I'm only asking - this is not
a feature request.)

>  So does anyone on the list have any experience in packaging a
>  stripped-down Ruby?

Packaging ruby: you only unzip it and set the path.
A stripped-down ruby: probably parsing (even if manually) ruby scripts
from ConTeXt to determine which packages are needed, and delete the
rest of the tree/ruby libraries :)

I'm sure that not the whole 70 MB of ruby are needed to run ConTeXt.

Mojca
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Re: Roll-Your-Own Stand-Alone (Was re. ConTeXt ultraminimals)

[Taco Hoekwater]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Joel C. Salomon wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>  >  > I'm going to defer working on [Perl & Ruby].
>>
>>  >  we dont't need full perl and ruby; perl only when you want to use
>>  >  mptopdf, which is not needed because texexec can do the same; so, a
>>  >  small ruby is enough
> 
> Is it also possible to use MK IV (or some other lua scripts) to
> convert .mp files to PDF by any chance? (I'm only asking - this is not
> a feature request.)

Using (tex)lua instead of perl should be simple, I can probably
do that over the weekend. It would still be based on the mkii
code, but at least that removes the perl dep.

Best wishes,
Taco

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Re: Roll-Your-Own Stand-Alone (Was re. ConTeXt ultraminimals)

[Hans Hagen]

Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Joel C. Salomon wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>  >  > I'm going to defer working on [Perl & Ruby].
>>
>>  >  we dont't need full perl and ruby; perl only when you want to use
>>  >  mptopdf, which is not needed because texexec can do the same; so, a
>>  >  small ruby is enough
> 
> Is it also possible to use MK IV (or some other lua scripts) to
> convert .mp files to PDF by any chance? (I'm only asking - this is not
> a feature request.)

sure, eventually i will adapt mptopdf to it

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Roll-Your-Own Stand-Alone (Was re. ConTeXt ultraminimals)

[Yue Wang]

Hi.

> Packaging ruby: you only unzip it and set the path.
> A stripped-down ruby: probably parsing (even if manually) ruby scripts
> from ConTeXt to determine which packages are needed, and delete the
> rest of the tree/ruby libraries :)
>
> I'm sure that not the whole 70 MB of ruby are needed to run ConTeXt.
>
> Mojca

Well, I strip the minimals to less than 30MB, removing all the fonts
except latin modern (in fact I can remove that 10mb too because I
fully depends on commercial fonts), and all the
pdftex/metapost/xetex/ruby/perl... stuff. Now LuaTeX and MKIV works
perfectly. Only one binary, LuaTeX, is in the ultraminimals.

If anyone is interested in that, I can mail it as attachment
personally (about 9mb bzip2 package).


BTW, Hans, why do LuaTeX still needs type1 format of LM fonts? please
check type-ini.tex. fonts like rm-lmr* can be substitude by opentype
format instead. Only math typefaces of the type1 font is needed now.
Maybe this is because the LuaTeX math mode support?

Yue Wang
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Re: Roll-Your-Own Stand-Alone (Was re. ConTeXt ultraminimals)

[Taco Hoekwater]

Yue Wang wrote:
> 
> 
> BTW, Hans, why do LuaTeX still needs type1 format of LM fonts? please
> check type-ini.tex. fonts like rm-lmr* can be substitude by opentype
> format instead. Only math typefaces of the type1 font is needed now.

rm-lm* actually are math fonts. The TFM metrics contain information that
is vital for math typesetting. Removing the last of those will have to
wait until 'math' feature support in both the fonts and the engines
(luatex & xetex).

Best wishes,
Taco


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Re: Roll-Your-Own Stand-Alone (Was re. ConTeXt ultraminimals)

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 4:49 AM, Yue Wang wrote:
> Hi.
>
>> Packaging ruby: you only unzip it and set the path.
>> A stripped-down ruby: probably parsing (even if manually) ruby scripts
>> from ConTeXt to determine which packages are needed, and delete the
>> rest of the tree/ruby libraries :)
>>
>> I'm sure that not the whole 70 MB of ruby are needed to run ConTeXt.
>>
>> Mojca
>
> Well, I strip the minimals to less than 30MB, removing all the fonts
> except latin modern (in fact I can remove that 10mb too because I
> fully depends on commercial fonts), and all the
> pdftex/metapost/xetex/ruby/perl... stuff. Now LuaTeX and MKIV works
> perfectly. Only one binary, LuaTeX, is in the ultraminimals.

Actually, the bin/common/ subtree could indeed be removed from luatex
installation. There's only bibtex, kpathsea and some programs that are
really not needed. (There's only a single line to be removed from
mtx-update.lua.)

Concerning fonts - I'll do at least a split "LM" / "all other fonts"
in some not-too-distant-future.

> If anyone is interested in that, I can mail it as attachment
> personally (about 9mb bzip2 package).

Just send me the list of files.

> BTW, Hans, why do LuaTeX still needs type1 format of LM fonts? please
> check type-ini.tex. fonts like rm-lmr* can be substitude by opentype
> format instead. Only math typefaces of the type1 font is needed now.
> Maybe this is because the LuaTeX math mode support?

As Taco answered - yes, until OpenType math support is there, these
fonts are still needed.

Mojca
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Re: Roll-Your-Own Stand-Alone (Was re. ConTeXt ultraminimals)

[Hans Hagen]

Yue Wang wrote:

> BTW, Hans, why do LuaTeX still needs type1 format of LM fonts? please
> check type-ini.tex. fonts like rm-lmr* can be substitude by opentype
> format instead. Only math typefaces of the type1 font is needed now.
> Maybe this is because the LuaTeX math mode support?

it uses the lm type 1 math fonts

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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