Unicode Math - what it is

Unicode Math - what it is

[Michail Vidiassov]

Dear All,

sorry for a stupid question, the unicode math that is about to come
means formula input using Unicode Math instead of tex commands as 
suggested in
"Unicode Nearly Plain-Text Encoding of Mathematics"

http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn28/UTN28-PlainTextMath-v2.pdf

or use of the Unicode fonts with math ranges in rendering
the result?
BTW, what are the options for getting a unicode math font?
Taking one from MS Office 2007? Waiting for Stix fonts (what happened yo 
them, there seems to be a delay fir yunpublihrt reason.?

          Sincerely, Nichail
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Yue Wang]

Hi,

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:04 AM, Michail Vidiassov <master@iaas.msu.ru> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> sorry for a stupid question, the unicode math that is about to come
> means formula input using Unicode Math instead of tex commands as suggested
> in
> "Unicode Nearly Plain-Text Encoding of Mathematics"

Yes, you can do that in XeTeX.
(I don't think this is a good idea to do so. math characters are
difficult to input using standard keyboard.)


>
> http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn28/UTN28-PlainTextMath-v2.pdf
>
> or use of the Unicode fonts with math ranges in rendering
> the result?

You should be very careful by doing so.

Math support is very different from standard text.
It requires more parameters than normal text to determine the position
of the glyphs (normal fonts won't contain these information).
Yes, you can use these fonts, but for most of the time you will get
ugly results.


> BTW, what are the options for getting a unicode math font?

There is an OpenType Math font naming Asana Math which is free
available on CTAN.

> Taking one from MS Office 2007?

Yes. ConTeXt also provides typescript for that.

> Waiting for Stix fonts (what happened yo
> them, there seems to be a delay fir yunpublihrt reason.?
>

Maybe you should wait for the TeX Gyre Math font. However, I think TG
fonts still need improvements.



>         Sincerely, Nichail
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

Yue Wang
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Michail Vidiassov wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> sorry for a stupid question, the unicode math that is about to come
> means formula input using Unicode Math instead of tex commands as suggested
> in
> "Unicode Nearly Plain-Text Encoding of Mathematics"
>
> http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn28/UTN28-PlainTextMath-v2.pdf

No. No in the sense that it's just about support for modern math fonts
(that are about to come). Users should not notice the difference in
general, for example when using "plain" math with LM, Antykwa, TeX
Gyre (px, tx), ...

The answer to your question might as well be a tiny bit of yes because
I'm not sure what exactly you are asking. The side effect of this
transition is also that you should be able to use "mathematical greek
italic alpha" instead of \alpha or α, or mathematical italic letter a
instead of just plain $a$, but I doubt that any sane user would want
to do that by typing those characters directly with a keyboard.

I have an impression that the document (even thoug the page is not
accessible) is about the way to input math in Word. Is there any
feature in TeX (input) that you are missing?

> or use of the Unicode fonts with math ranges in rendering
> the result?

Yes.

> BTW, what are the options for getting a unicode math font?
> Taking one from MS Office 2007? Waiting for Stix fonts (what happened yo
> them, there seems to be a delay fir yunpublihrt reason.?

Stix is not (and probably will not be) supported unless someone else
writes support for those fonts or unless they publish the proper
OpenType version. You can already use Cambria Math or Asana Math in
mkiv with the non-released LuaTeX with ConTeXt beta from Pragma.

Other math fonts (LM, px, tx, ...) are currently remapped to the
proper Unicode range to make them behave as if they were proper
OpenType math fonts. But they still need some testing and fixes.

Mojca
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Michail Vidiassov]

Dear Mojca and All,

>> sorry for a stupid question, the unicode math that is about to come
>> means formula input using Unicode Math instead of tex commands as
>> suggested in "Unicode Nearly Plain-Text Encoding of Mathematics"

> The answer to your question might as well be a tiny bit of yes because
> I'm not sure what exactly you are asking. The side effect of this
> transition is also that you should be able to use "mathematical greek
> italic alpha" instead of \alpha or α, or mathematical italic letter a
> instead of just plain $a$, but I doubt that any sane user would want to do
> that by typing those characters directly with a keyboard.
>
> I have an impression that the document (even thoug the page is not
> accessible) is about the way to input math in Word. Is there any feature in
> TeX (input) that you are missing?

Alternative URL is
http://www.activemath.org/workshops/MathUI/07/proceedings/Sargent-TwoSyntaxes-MathUI07.pdf

And the system described is that "tiny bit of yes" on steroids -
not only variables, but also operators, like using the unicode N-ARY
SUMMATION instead of \sum

As to the user sanity - inconvenient input may be balanced by easy reading -
if formulae get very long math symbols come convenient.
And no need to give up typing in favour of mousing things out of glyph
tables - replace on input or search-and-replace on command are in almost
any editor nowdays, to say nothing of sed.
>
>> BTW, what are the options for getting a unicode math font?
>> Taking one from MS Office 2007? Waiting for Stix fonts
>
> Stix is not (and probably will not be) supported
Are there any information about their plans to release anything?
They promised to make fonts proper after beta release, but later
turned silent.
> You can already use Cambria Math or Asana Math in mkiv with the
> non-released LuaTeX with ConTeXt beta from Pragma.
How? What are the typescripts?

           Sincerely, Michail

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 13.02.2009 um 18:12 schrieb Michail Vidiassov:

>> You can already use Cambria Math or Asana Math in mkiv with the
>> non-released LuaTeX with ConTeXt beta from Pragma.
> How? What are the typescripts?

\usetypescript[cambria]
\setupbodyfont[cambria]

Wolfgang

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Mohamed Bana]

i upgraded only to check if this would would, and it didn't, any idea why?

$ context --version
MtxRun | main context file: 
/home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/context.tex
MtxRun | current version: 2009.01.18 14:39

$ luatex --version
This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.31.3-2008123108, build unknown


% engine=luatex

\usetypescript[cambria]
\setupbodyfont[cambria]

\starttext
$\mu$ µ is ok, but $µ$ is ţ
\stoptext

uses Latin Modern


i'm getting this error when i try to use Tikz

! Undefined control sequence.
<recently read> \usetikzlibrary

l.11 \usetikzlibrary
                     [arrows,automata,fit]
?



also where exactly are the typescripts located and do you happen to have 
the Asana Math typescripts as well? :)

btw, thanks a lot.

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
> Am 13.02.2009 um 18:12 schrieb Michail Vidiassov:
> 
>>> You can already use Cambria Math or Asana Math in mkiv with the
>>> non-released LuaTeX with ConTeXt beta from Pragma.
>> How? What are the typescripts?
> 
> \usetypescript[cambria]
> \setupbodyfont[cambria]
> 
> Wolfgang
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
> 
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry 
> to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________ 
> 
> 
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 13.02.2009 um 20:44 schrieb Mohamed Bana:

> i upgraded only to check if this would would, and it didn't, any  
> idea why?
>
> $ context --version
> MtxRun | main context file: /home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf- 
> context/tex/context/base/context.tex
> MtxRun | current version: 2009.01.18 14:39
>
> $ luatex --version
> This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.31.3-2008123108, build unknown

You need the last beta version (2009.02.09) and the last LuaTeX
version (0.33.1) plus Microsofts cambria fonts.

I find it odd to get a upright mu with µ and the italic with \mu
in math mode, shouldn't both give the same result?

> also where exactly are the typescripts located and do you happen
> to have the Asana Math typescripts as well? :)

You can find the typescript in $TEXMF/tex/context/base/type-xxx.tex

Asana Math is not supported by default, the typescripts are missing.

Wolfgang

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 13.02.2009 um 20:44 schrieb Mohamed Bana:
>
> I find it odd to get a upright mu with µ and the italic with \mu
> in math mode, shouldn't both give the same result?

I find it a miracle that it works at all :)
Just joking. Greek inside math is not working properly yet due to
duplication and slight confusion between greek (U+03XX) and math greek
(U+1D6XX) ranges. Just the proper mapping is missing at the moment -
the same kind of mapping that turns "lowercase latin a" into
"mathematical italic small a".

>> also where exactly are the typescripts located and do you happen
>> to have the Asana Math typescripts as well? :)
>
> You can find the typescript in $TEXMF/tex/context/base/type-xxx.tex
>
> Asana Math is not supported by default, the typescripts are missing.

However there's no reason for not adding them. It's probably the only
free OpenType math font so far.

Mojca
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 14.02.2009 um 16:16 schrieb Mojca Miklavec:

>> Asana Math is not supported by default, the typescripts are missing.
>
> However there's no reason for not adding them. It's probably the only
> free OpenType math font so far.

Can you add it to the minimals.

Wolfgang

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Mohamed Bana wrote:
> i upgraded only to check if this would would, and it didn't, any idea why?
>
> $ context --version
> MtxRun | main context file:
> /home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/context.tex
> MtxRun | current version: 2009.01.18 14:39
>
> $ luatex --version
> This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.31.3-2008123108, build unknown

You need version 0.33.1 from SVN and the latest ConTeXt (about 5 days
old; in minimals it's --context=alpha and it's beta on Pragma, but you
need your own LuaTeX).

> % engine=luatex
>
> \usetypescript[cambria]
> \setupbodyfont[cambria]
>
> \starttext
> $\mu$ µ is ok, but $µ$ is ţ
> \stoptext
>
> uses Latin Modern
>
>
> i'm getting this error when i try to use Tikz
>
> ! Undefined control sequence.
> <recently read> \usetikzlibrary
>
> l.11 \usetikzlibrary
>                    [arrows,automata,fit]
> ?

Did you check for notices like "module tikz not loaded" in the log? If
you use the minimals you need to make sure to add --extras=t-tikz to
first-setup.sh (or add that switch when you call first-setup.sh).

> also where exactly are the typescripts located and do you happen to have the
> Asana Math typescripts as well? :)

They are in type-otf.tex. If you want to use Asana, just copy the
whole portion of cambria typescripts and search-and-replace-all from
cambria to asana (or ask Hans politely to do that in core once he's
back).

Mojca
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Mohamed Bana]

in first-setup.sh

# download or update the distribution
# you may remove the --context=beta switch
mtxrun --verbose --script ./bin/mtx-update.lua --update --make --force 
--engine=all --context=alpha --texroot=$PWD/tex --extras=t-tikz $@


got this error

loading : Context Synchronization
) 
(/home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-pln.tex) 
(/home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-ini.mkiv
! LuaTeX error 
...mals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-noa.lua:161: table index 
is nil
stack traceback:
	...mals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-noa.lua:161: in main chunk
	<main ctx instance>:1: in main chunk.
\ctxluabytecode ...de[#1] = nil end else end end }

\registerctxluafile ...{\the \luabytecodecounter }
                                                   \fi
l.43 \registerctxluafile{math-noa}{1.001}

?


Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Mohamed Bana wrote:
>> i upgraded only to check if this would would, and it didn't, any idea why?
>>
>> $ context --version
>> MtxRun | main context file:
>> /home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/context.tex
>> MtxRun | current version: 2009.01.18 14:39
>>
>> $ luatex --version
>> This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.31.3-2008123108, build unknown
> 
> You need version 0.33.1 from SVN and the latest ConTeXt (about 5 days
> old; in minimals it's --context=alpha and it's beta on Pragma, but you
> need your own LuaTeX).
> 
>> % engine=luatex
>>
>> \usetypescript[cambria]
>> \setupbodyfont[cambria]
>>
>> \starttext
>> $\mu$ µ is ok, but $µ$ is ţ
>> \stoptext
>>
>> uses Latin Modern
>>
>>
>> i'm getting this error when i try to use Tikz
>>
>> ! Undefined control sequence.
>> <recently read> \usetikzlibrary
>>
>> l.11 \usetikzlibrary
>>                    [arrows,automata,fit]
>> ?
> 
> Did you check for notices like "module tikz not loaded" in the log? If
> you use the minimals you need to make sure to add --extras=t-tikz to
> first-setup.sh (or add that switch when you call first-setup.sh).
> 
>> also where exactly are the typescripts located and do you happen to have the
>> Asana Math typescripts as well? :)
> 
> They are in type-otf.tex. If you want to use Asana, just copy the
> whole portion of cambria typescripts and search-and-replace-all from
> cambria to asana (or ask Hans politely to do that in core once he's
> back).
> 
> Mojca
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Yue Wang]

please replace your luatex with the svn trunk version and run
context --make
again.

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Mohamed Bana
<mbana.lists@googlemail.com> wrote:
> in first-setup.sh
>
> # download or update the distribution
> # you may remove the --context=beta switch
> mtxrun --verbose --script ./bin/mtx-update.lua --update --make --force
> --engine=all --context=alpha --texroot=$PWD/tex --extras=t-tikz $@
>
>
> got this error
>
> loading : Context Synchronization
> )
> (/home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-pln.tex)
> (/home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-ini.mkiv
> ! LuaTeX error ...mals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-noa.lua:161:
> table index is nil
> stack traceback:
>        ...mals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-noa.lua:161: in main
> chunk
>        <main ctx instance>:1: in main chunk.
> \ctxluabytecode ...de[#1] = nil end else end end }
>
> \registerctxluafile ...{\the \luabytecodecounter }
>                                                  \fi
> l.43 \registerctxluafile{math-noa}{1.001}
>
> ?
>
>
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Mohamed Bana wrote:
>>>
>>> i upgraded only to check if this would would, and it didn't, any idea
>>> why?
>>>
>>> $ context --version
>>> MtxRun | main context file:
>>>
>>> /home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/context.tex
>>> MtxRun | current version: 2009.01.18 14:39
>>>
>>> $ luatex --version
>>> This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.31.3-2008123108, build unknown
>>
>> You need version 0.33.1 from SVN and the latest ConTeXt (about 5 days
>> old; in minimals it's --context=alpha and it's beta on Pragma, but you
>> need your own LuaTeX).
>>
>>> % engine=luatex
>>>
>>> \usetypescript[cambria]
>>> \setupbodyfont[cambria]
>>>
>>> \starttext
>>> $\mu$ µ is ok, but $µ$ is ţ
>>> \stoptext
>>>
>>> uses Latin Modern
>>>
>>>
>>> i'm getting this error when i try to use Tikz
>>>
>>> ! Undefined control sequence.
>>> <recently read> \usetikzlibrary
>>>
>>> l.11 \usetikzlibrary
>>>                   [arrows,automata,fit]
>>> ?
>>
>> Did you check for notices like "module tikz not loaded" in the log? If
>> you use the minimals you need to make sure to add --extras=t-tikz to
>> first-setup.sh (or add that switch when you call first-setup.sh).
>>
>>> also where exactly are the typescripts located and do you happen to have
>>> the
>>> Asana Math typescripts as well? :)
>>
>> They are in type-otf.tex. If you want to use Asana, just copy the
>> whole portion of cambria typescripts and search-and-replace-all from
>> cambria to asana (or ask Hans politely to do that in core once he's
>> back).
>>
>> Mojca
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>> the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
>> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Michail Vidiassov wrote:
> Dear Mojca and All,
>
> And the system described is that "tiny bit of yes" on steroids -
> not only variables, but also operators, like using the unicode N-ARY
> SUMMATION instead of \sum

Hello Michail,

The following works OK also in mkii:
    ∑_{i=1}^∞\frac{1}{2^n}

Mojca
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Joel C. Salomon]

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Mojca Miklavec
<mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
> The following works OK also in mkii:
>    ∑_{i=1}^∞\frac{1}{2^n}

Be careful to note that you are using U+2211 N-ary Summation (∑)
rather than U+03A3 Greek Capital Letter Sigma (Σ).

Note also that Murray Sargent's "nearly plain text" includes
characters to distinguish the N-ary-and. (It's not quite TeX, but it's
an interesting input format, especially for interactive use. MS Word
will replace the text "\sum " with "∑", on-the-fly and consuming the
space.)

—Joel
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Re: Unicode Math - what it is

[Joel C. Salomon]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Michail Vidiassov <master@iaas.msu.ru> wrote:
> "Unicode Nearly Plain-Text Encoding of Mathematics"
> http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn28/UTN28-PlainTextMath-v2.pdf

Unicode Tech Note #28 is completely unrelated to TeX. It is a
suggestion for a different method of encoding math, distinct from TeX,
MathML, &c., but with the advantage that it looks nearly like plain
(Unicode) text. The paper was written by Murray Sargent of Microsoft,
who works with the MS Office Math component and maintains a blog about
it at <http://blogs.msdn.com/murrays/>. The input to Office 2007+ Math
is based on this paper, and you can in fact switch an equation in Word
between "display" and "linear" formats. (The internal format is
XML-based OMML.)

—Joel
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