From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/40534 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robin Kirkham Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Bibliographic Databases Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:13:28 +1000 Message-ID: <7BC1AB6C-341E-4C43-A973-2853606118A5@csiro.au> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1208683210 21643 80.91.229.12 (20 Apr 2008 09:20:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 09:20:10 +0000 (UTC) To: ntg-context@ntg.nl Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sun Apr 20 11:20:42 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JnViy-0008QL-ER for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:20:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DCF21FC7C; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:19:55 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 18739-02-4; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:19:14 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 318D11FC39; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:19:14 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2551FC39 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:19:11 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 18739-02-3 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:18:34 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mx1.aanet.com.au (mx.aanet.com.au [202.63.43.136]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 289171FC2F for ; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:18:33 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail.aanet.com.au (mail.aanet.com.au [202.61.184.228]) by mx1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 08C962D4807 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:18:27 +1000 (EST) Original-Received: (qmail 17425 invoked by uid 89); 20 Apr 2008 09:18:26 -0000 Original-Received: by simscan 1.2.0 ppid: 17394, pid: 17419, t: 0.2074s scanners: attach: 1.2.0 clamav: 0.88.1/m:37/d:1390 Original-Received: from cust5289.vic01.dataco.com.au (HELO ?192.168.1.12?) (202.164.198.169) by mail.aanet.com.au with SMTP; 20 Apr 2008 09:18:26 -0000 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:40534 Archived-At: On 20 April 2008, "George N. White III" wrote: > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Robin Kirkham = > wrote: > >> I want to set up a shared bibliographic reference database for my >> research group, [...] > > I can tell you a few things that don't work! In our lab we have both > TeX and Word users. Many of them had been using a DOS package > called papyrus, using a special markup that could be translated > to tex (.bbl) files. Nothing we found was really satisfactory, so > we bought EndNote, which could import from papyrus via "refer" > format and can export to "almost bibtex". One problem is that > EndNote uses unicode, so we end up with =E8, etc. that must > be translated for some user's versions of bibtex. The database > now has a nearly infinite variety of different quote marks: > `a`, 'a', ``a'', "a", etc. depending on how the entry was made > (many are pasted from online or pdf sources). > > EndNote is really designed for individual users, although sold > in bulk. If 2 people open the same database on a shared > drive they end up with a corrupt database. > > In my view, a bibliographic database needs to store each > reference in the "source" or original format, whether bibtex, > refer, or one of the newer forms, and provide translators > and version tracking, so each file can have forks for different > uses (e.g., ascii vs unicode char. sets) and edits can be > preserved for the next user. In practice, people just dump > selected refs to a bib file, make the .bbl file, and fix problems > there, so fixes rarely make it back to the master database. > If they did, we would still have accents and quote marks > being switched back and forth depending on who last used > the entry. Thanks George. EndNote is I believe the corporately-approved solution = here, and similar disasters occur when people try and share its data = files. For this reason I don't call these sorts of personal-level = programs "databases" (any more than I'll call a .bib file a database). The TeX folk don't fare much better. Multiple personal .bib files are = common, often with duplicate references but different citation keys, = leading to rather variable results depending on who run LaTeX/ConTeXt = on the file. Inconsistency in data entry is also a problem, although = for us, accents and quotes don't seem to too big a problem. = (`Authorless', i.e., corporate author documents, like data sheets, = seems to be more of an issue). For this reason I'm looking for a proper SQL database solution like = refdb or refbase (or maybe wikindx, thanks Andreas) with a web front- = end that will hopefully enforce somewhat more consistent data entry, = and maybe even auto-generate citation keys. Taco, your remarks = regarding interchange formats are valuable (both refdb and refbase = support MODS XML output). Robin ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________