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* [NTG-context] Applying \sc for smallcaps across styles
@ 2023-08-19 14:03 Hamid,Idris
  2023-08-19 15:26 ` [NTG-context] " Wolfgang Schuster
  2023-08-19 17:36 ` Pablo Rodriguez
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hamid,Idris @ 2023-08-19 14:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context


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Dear gang,

Consider the following typescript template:

\definefontfeature
  [myfont-tf-sc]
  [mode=node,script=latn,language=dflt,trep=no,
   protrusion=quality,expansion=quality,
   compose=yes,combine=yes,tlig=yes,
   kern=yes,liga=yes,onum=yes,cpsp=yes,smcp=yes, % smcp activie
   trnsl=force]

% synonym mapping
\starttypescript [serif] [myfont] [name]
  \loadfontgoodies[myfontlfg]
  \definefontsynonym [Serif]           [MyFontRegular]    [features=myfont-tf]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]     [MyFontItalic]     [features=myfont-it]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]       [MyFontBold]       [features=myfont-tf]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [MyFontBoldItalic] [features=myfont-it]

  \definefontsynonym [SerifCaps]           [MyFontRegular]    [features=myfont-tf-sc]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifCapsItalic]     [MyFontItalic]     [features=myfont-it-sc]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifCapsBold]       [MyFontBold]       [features=myfont-tf-sc]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifCapsBoldItalic] [MyFontBoldItalic] [features=myfont-it-sc]
\stoptypescript

% font mapping
\starttypescript [serif] [myfont]
  \loadfontgoodies[myfontlfg]
  \definefontsynonym [MyFontRegular]     [file:MyFont-Regular] % [features=myfont-tf]
  \definefontsynonym [MyFontItalic]      [file:MyFont-It]      % [features=myfont-it]
  \definefontsynonym [MyFontBold]        [file:MyFont-Bold]    % [features=myfont-tf]
  \definefontsynonym [MyFontBoldItalic]  [file:MyFont-BoldIt]  % [features=myfont-it]
\stoptypescript

As is well known, \sc selects the small caps only from the Serif font, not from SerifBold etc. But MyFont has smallcaps for every style. So in the typescript we make that explicit and apply the smcp=yes fontfeature to SerifCapsBold etc.

But this does not work: \sc still only applies to Serif or SerifCaps.

Now I can load a goodies file myfontlfg and do something like this:

local smallcaps = {
    smcp = yes,
}

But that does not change the behavior of \sc.

Yes, there is an easy workaround:

\definefontfeature[smallcaps][smcp=yes]
\define\sc{\addff{smallcaps}}

This works for all styles that have the smcp feature, but I don't like having to redefine a system command.

So the questions are:

1) Is there a recommended\better way to get \sc to work across all styles?
2) Are there any edits you would recommend to the above typescript template?

Once we're clear on this, will update this quite obsolete page:
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Bold_small_caps

Thank you in advance.

Best wishes
Idris

PS Sometimes these inquiries may appear more verbose than needed. That is because I'm trying to write as clearly as possible, not only for the experts and masters, but also for beginners and intermediate users who may run into these things one day, search the archives, etc..

--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
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wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [NTG-context] Re: Applying \sc for smallcaps across styles
  2023-08-19 14:03 [NTG-context] Applying \sc for smallcaps across styles Hamid,Idris
@ 2023-08-19 15:26 ` Wolfgang Schuster
  2023-08-19 18:36   ` Hamid,Idris
  2023-08-19 17:36 ` Pablo Rodriguez
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2023-08-19 15:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Hamid,Idris


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Hamid,Idris schrieb am 19.08.2023 um 16:03:
> Dear gang,
>
> Consider the following typescript template:
>
> \definefontfeature
>   [myfont-tf-sc]
>   [mode=node,script=latn,language=dflt,trep=no,
>    protrusion=quality,expansion=quality,
>    compose=yes,combine=yes,tlig=yes,
>    kern=yes,liga=yes,onum=yes,cpsp=yes,smcp=yes, % smcp activie
>    trnsl=force]
>
> % synonym mapping
> \starttypescript [serif] [myfont] [name]
>   \loadfontgoodies[myfontlfg]
>   \definefontsynonym [Serif]           [MyFontRegular] 
>  [features=myfont-tf]
>   \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]     [MyFontItalic] 
>  [features=myfont-it]
>   \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]       [MyFontBold]  [features=myfont-tf]
>   \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [MyFontBoldItalic] 
> [features=myfont-it]
>
>   \definefontsynonym [SerifCaps]           [MyFontRegular] 
>  [features=myfont-tf-sc]
>   \definefontsynonym [SerifCapsItalic]     [MyFontItalic] 
>  [features=myfont-it-sc]
>   \definefontsynonym [SerifCapsBold]       [MyFontBold] 
>  [features=myfont-tf-sc]
>   \definefontsynonym [SerifCapsBoldItalic] [MyFontBoldItalic] 
> [features=myfont-it-sc]
> \stoptypescript
>
> % font mapping
> \starttypescript [serif] [myfont]
>   \loadfontgoodies[myfontlfg]
>   \definefontsynonym [MyFontRegular]     [file:MyFont-Regular] % 
> [features=myfont-tf]
>   \definefontsynonym [MyFontItalic]      [file:MyFont-It]      % 
> [features=myfont-it]
>   \definefontsynonym [MyFontBold]        [file:MyFont-Bold]    % 
> [features=myfont-tf]
>   \definefontsynonym [MyFontBoldItalic]  [file:MyFont-BoldIt]  % 
> [features=myfont-it]
> \stoptypescript
>
> As is well known, \sc selects the small caps only from the Serif font, 
> not from SerifBold etc. But MyFont has smallcaps for every style. So 
> in the typescript we make that explicit and apply the 
> smcp=yes fontfeature to SerifCapsBold etc.
>
> But this does not work: \sc still only applies to Serif or SerifCaps.
>
> Now I can load a goodies file myfontlfg and do something like this:
>
> local smallcaps = {
>     smcp = yes,
> }
>
> But that does not change the behavior of \sc.
>
> Yes, there is an easy workaround:
>
> \definefontfeature[smallcaps][smcp=yes]
> \define\sc{\addff{smallcaps}}
>
> This works for all styles that have the smcp feature, but I don't like 
> having to redefine a system command.
>
> So the questions are:
>
> 1) Is there a recommended\better way to get \sc to work across all 
> styles?

\setupbodyfont[pagella]

\starttext

\tf Upright, \it Italic, \bf Bold and \bi Bolditalic

\style[style=smallcaps]{\tf Upright, \it Italic, \bf Bold and \bi 
Bolditalic}

\tf Upright, \it Italic, \bf Bold and \bi Bolditalic

\setsmallcaps\tf Upright, \it Italic, \bf Bold and \bi Bolditalic

\stoptext


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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [NTG-context] Re: Applying \sc for smallcaps across styles
  2023-08-19 14:03 [NTG-context] Applying \sc for smallcaps across styles Hamid,Idris
  2023-08-19 15:26 ` [NTG-context] " Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2023-08-19 17:36 ` Pablo Rodriguez
  2023-08-19 18:56   ` Hamid,Idris
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Pablo Rodriguez @ 2023-08-19 17:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context

On 8/19/23 16:03, Hamid,Idris wrote:
> [...]
> Yes, there is an easy workaround:
>
> \definefontfeature[smallcaps][smcp=yes]

Hi Idris,

just a minor comment.

This is already defined in lines 96-99 of font-pre.mkxl:

 \definefontfeature
   [smallcaps]
   [always]
   [smcp=yes]

And also in lines 77-82 of font-pre.mkiv:

 \definefontfeature
   [smallcaps]
   [always]
   [smcp=yes,
    tlig=yes,
    trep=yes] % texligatures=yes,texquotes=yes

Just in case it helps, grep is a useful tool when applied to
tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl (or
/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv, if needed).

Cheers

Pablo
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [NTG-context] Re: Applying \sc for smallcaps across styles
  2023-08-19 15:26 ` [NTG-context] " Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2023-08-19 18:36   ` Hamid,Idris
  2023-08-19 19:01     ` Wolfgang Schuster
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hamid,Idris @ 2023-08-19 18:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Wolfgang Schuster


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Many thanks. From font-pre.mkiv:

\definealternativestyle [\v!smallcaps] [\setsmallcaps] [\setsmallcaps]
:
\unexpanded\def\setsmallcaps{\doaddfeature{f:smallcaps}}

So on the wiki we should say that \sc is a deprecated/legacy command that no longer makes sense in an opentype-features world. New users should no longer use it.

Best wishes
Idris

--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
On Aug 19, 2023, 9:26 AM -0600, Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster.lists@gmail.com>, wrote:

** Caution: EXTERNAL Sender **

Hamid,Idris schrieb am 19.08.2023 um 16:03:
Dear gang,

Consider the following typescript template:

\definefontfeature
  [myfont-tf-sc]
  [mode=node,script=latn,language=dflt,trep=no,
   protrusion=quality,expansion=quality,
   compose=yes,combine=yes,tlig=yes,
   kern=yes,liga=yes,onum=yes,cpsp=yes,smcp=yes, % smcp activie
   trnsl=force]

% synonym mapping
\starttypescript [serif] [myfont] [name]
  \loadfontgoodies[myfontlfg]
  \definefontsynonym [Serif]           [MyFontRegular]    [features=myfont-tf]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic]     [MyFontItalic]     [features=myfont-it]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBold]       [MyFontBold]       [features=myfont-tf]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [MyFontBoldItalic] [features=myfont-it]

  \definefontsynonym [SerifCaps]           [MyFontRegular]    [features=myfont-tf-sc]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifCapsItalic]     [MyFontItalic]     [features=myfont-it-sc]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifCapsBold]       [MyFontBold]       [features=myfont-tf-sc]
  \definefontsynonym [SerifCapsBoldItalic] [MyFontBoldItalic] [features=myfont-it-sc]
\stoptypescript

% font mapping
\starttypescript [serif] [myfont]
  \loadfontgoodies[myfontlfg]
  \definefontsynonym [MyFontRegular]     [file:MyFont-Regular] % [features=myfont-tf]
  \definefontsynonym [MyFontItalic]      [file:MyFont-It]      % [features=myfont-it]
  \definefontsynonym [MyFontBold]        [file:MyFont-Bold]    % [features=myfont-tf]
  \definefontsynonym [MyFontBoldItalic]  [file:MyFont-BoldIt]  % [features=myfont-it]
\stoptypescript

As is well known, \sc selects the small caps only from the Serif font, not from SerifBold etc. But MyFont has smallcaps for every style. So in the typescript we make that explicit and apply the smcp=yes fontfeature to SerifCapsBold etc.

But this does not work: \sc still only applies to Serif or SerifCaps.

Now I can load a goodies file myfontlfg and do something like this:

local smallcaps = {
    smcp = yes,
}

But that does not change the behavior of \sc.

Yes, there is an easy workaround:

\definefontfeature[smallcaps][smcp=yes]
\define\sc{\addff{smallcaps}}

This works for all styles that have the smcp feature, but I don't like having to redefine a system command.

So the questions are:

1) Is there a recommended\better way to get \sc to work across all styles?

\setupbodyfont[pagella]

\starttext

\tf Upright, \it Italic, \bf Bold and \bi Bolditalic

\style[style=smallcaps]{\tf Upright, \it Italic, \bf Bold and \bi Bolditalic}

\tf Upright, \it Italic, \bf Bold and \bi Bolditalic

\setsmallcaps\tf Upright, \it Italic, \bf Bold and \bi Bolditalic

\stoptext


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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [NTG-context] Re: Applying \sc for smallcaps across styles
  2023-08-19 17:36 ` Pablo Rodriguez
@ 2023-08-19 18:56   ` Hamid,Idris
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hamid,Idris @ 2023-08-19 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ntg-context, Pablo Rodriguez


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Many thanks, Pablo. Yes, you are right. As mentioned in the reply to Wolfgang, will edit the wiki to reflect the legacy\deprecated status of \sc.

As for grep: Normally I use the nice "find in files" feature of Notepad++ -)

Am editing the wiki and have moved the original link to the more general title

https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Small_caps_across_styles_(bold,_italics,_etc.)

Best wishes
Idris

--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
On Aug 19, 2023, 11:39 AM -0600, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es>, wrote:
** Caution: EXTERNAL Sender **

On 8/19/23 16:03, Hamid,Idris wrote:
[...]
Yes, there is an easy workaround:

\definefontfeature[smallcaps][smcp=yes]

Hi Idris,

just a minor comment.

This is already defined in lines 96-99 of font-pre.mkxl:

\definefontfeature
[smallcaps]
[always]
[smcp=yes]

And also in lines 77-82 of font-pre.mkiv:

\definefontfeature
[smallcaps]
[always]
[smcp=yes,
tlig=yes,
trep=yes] % texligatures=yes,texquotes=yes

Just in case it helps, grep is a useful tool when applied to
tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl (or
/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv, if needed).

Cheers

Pablo
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

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___________________________________________________________________________________

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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [NTG-context] Re: Applying \sc for smallcaps across styles
  2023-08-19 18:36   ` Hamid,Idris
@ 2023-08-19 19:01     ` Wolfgang Schuster
  2023-08-19 19:14       ` Hamid,Idris
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2023-08-19 19:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Hamid,Idris; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users

Hamid,Idris schrieb am 19.08.2023 um 20:36:
> Many thanks. From font-pre.mkiv:
>
> \definealternativestyle [\v!smallcaps] [\setsmallcaps] [\setsmallcaps]
> :
> \unexpanded\def\setsmallcaps{\doaddfeature{f:smallcaps}}
>
> So on the wiki we should say that \sc is a deprecated/legacy command 
> that no longer makes sense in an opentype-features world. New users 
> should no longer use it.

It depends on the font, e.g. Latin Modern still requires \sc because it 
provides a separate file for smallcaps but no smcp feature.

ConTeXt has a command which can be used to check whether the current 
active font provides the smcp feature but the recommended way is to 
choose a font which supports to method (\sc or \setsmallcaps) which is 
used in the document.

Wolfgang

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki     : https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [NTG-context] Re: Applying \sc for smallcaps across styles
  2023-08-19 19:01     ` Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2023-08-19 19:14       ` Hamid,Idris
  2023-08-19 20:17         ` Hamid,Idris
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hamid,Idris @ 2023-08-19 19:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Hamid,Idris, Wolfgang Schuster; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users


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On Aug 19, 2023, 1:01 PM -0600, Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster.lists@gmail.com>, wrote:
** Caution: EXTERNAL Sender **

Hamid,Idris schrieb am 19.08.2023 um 20:36:
Many thanks. From font-pre.mkiv:

\definealternativestyle [\v!smallcaps] [\setsmallcaps] [\setsmallcaps]
:
\unexpanded\def\setsmallcaps{\doaddfeature{f:smallcaps}}

So on the wiki we should say that \sc is a deprecated/legacy command
that no longer makes sense in an opentype-features world. New users
should no longer use it.

It depends on the font, e.g. Latin Modern still requires \sc because it
provides a separate file for smallcaps but no smcp feature.

ConTeXt has a command which can be used to check whether the current
active font provides the smcp feature but the recommended way is to
choose a font which supports to method (\sc or \setsmallcaps) which is
used in the document.

Ah, yes (and a similar point can be made about slanted/oblique (\sl). Many thanks for the clarification.

Idris
--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

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* [NTG-context] Re: Applying \sc for smallcaps across styles
  2023-08-19 19:14       ` Hamid,Idris
@ 2023-08-19 20:17         ` Hamid,Idris
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hamid,Idris @ 2023-08-19 20:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mailing list for ConTeXt users; +Cc: Pablo Rodriguez


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Dear gang,

The following two wiki pages have been edited/added:

https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Small_caps_across_styles_(bold,_italics,_etc.)
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Small_caps_and_other_styles

Best wishes
Idris

--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
On Aug 19, 2023, 1:14 PM -0600, Hamid,Idris <Idris.Hamid@ColoState.EDU>, wrote:
On Aug 19, 2023, 1:01 PM -0600, Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster.lists@gmail.com>, wrote:
** Caution: EXTERNAL Sender **

Hamid,Idris schrieb am 19.08.2023 um 20:36:
Many thanks. From font-pre.mkiv:

\definealternativestyle [\v!smallcaps] [\setsmallcaps] [\setsmallcaps]
:
\unexpanded\def\setsmallcaps{\doaddfeature{f:smallcaps}}

So on the wiki we should say that \sc is a deprecated/legacy command
that no longer makes sense in an opentype-features world. New users
should no longer use it.

It depends on the font, e.g. Latin Modern still requires \sc because it
provides a separate file for smallcaps but no smcp feature.

ConTeXt has a command which can be used to check whether the current
active font provides the smcp feature but the recommended way is to
choose a font which supports to method (\sc or \setsmallcaps) which is
used in the document.

Ah, yes (and a similar point can be made about slanted/oblique (\sl). Many thanks for the clarification.

Idris
--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2023-08-19 20:19 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-08-19 14:03 [NTG-context] Applying \sc for smallcaps across styles Hamid,Idris
2023-08-19 15:26 ` [NTG-context] " Wolfgang Schuster
2023-08-19 18:36   ` Hamid,Idris
2023-08-19 19:01     ` Wolfgang Schuster
2023-08-19 19:14       ` Hamid,Idris
2023-08-19 20:17         ` Hamid,Idris
2023-08-19 17:36 ` Pablo Rodriguez
2023-08-19 18:56   ` Hamid,Idris

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