Place footnote after reference

Place footnote after reference

[Huseyin Özoguz]

Hello,

ConText seems to try to place the footnote on the same page as the 
footenotereference. See this example:

\showgrid
\starttext
\input tufte
\input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
\input tufte
\input tufte \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what }\footnote{Footnote 2} \input tufte
\stoptext

But that results into one (or two?) fewer line on the first page.

Is there a possibility to implement the following rule? -> NEVER move 
lines onto the next page to achieve footnote and reference beging on the 
same page. If necessary set the footnote on the next page, after the 
reference.

Or would you suggest a better solution? I have a book with grid=yes, so 
the default-setting is not suitable.

Thanks
Huseyin


-- 
Huseyin Özoguz

E-Mail: h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de

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Re: Place footnote after reference

[Denis Maier]

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llI don't know a solution for this, but would be very interested.
With LaTeX you can use the `atbegshi`-package that gives you a command `
\AtBeginShipoutNext`:

```
\footnotemark
\clearpage
\AtBeginShipoutNext{\footnotetext{Text.}}
```

This only works for individual footnotes, but it's already quite useful.
Is there something similar for ConTeXt?
I can think of at least three situations:

1. Put footnote text to the next page for a single footnote.
2. Allow footnote text on next page for all footnotes.
3. Allow footnote text on next page of a double page spread  for all
footnotes.

Best,
Denis






Am Mo., 22. Juli 2019 um 08:43 Uhr schrieb Huseyin Özoguz <
h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de>:

> Hello,
>
> ConText seems to try to place the footnote on the same page as the
> footenotereference. See this example:
>
> \showgrid
> \starttext
> \input tufte
> \input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
> \input tufte
> \input tufte \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what }\footnote{Footnote 2} \input
> tufte
> \stoptext
>
> But that results into one (or two?) fewer line on the first page.
>
> Is there a possibility to implement the following rule? -> NEVER move
> lines onto the next page to achieve footnote and reference beging on the
> same page. If necessary set the footnote on the next page, after the
> reference.
>
> Or would you suggest a better solution? I have a book with grid=yes, so
> the default-setting is not suitable.
>
> Thanks
> Huseyin
>
>
> --
> Huseyin Özoguz
>
> E-Mail: h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>

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Re: Place footnote after reference

[Alan Braslau]

On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 16:27:45 +0200
Denis Maier <maier.de@gmail.com> wrote:

> llI don't know a solution for this, but would be very interested.
> With LaTeX you can use the `atbegshi`-package that gives you a
> command ` \AtBeginShipoutNext`:
> 
> ```
> \footnotemark
> \clearpage
> \AtBeginShipoutNext{\footnotetext{Text.}}
> ```
> 
> This only works for individual footnotes, but it's already quite
> useful. Is there something similar for ConTeXt?
> I can think of at least three situations:
> 
> 1. Put footnote text to the next page for a single footnote.
> 2. Allow footnote text on next page for all footnotes.
> 3. Allow footnote text on next page of a double page spread  for all
> footnotes.
> 
> Best,
> Denis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am Mo., 22. Juli 2019 um 08:43 Uhr schrieb Huseyin Özoguz <
> h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de>:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > ConText seems to try to place the footnote on the same page as the
> > footenotereference. See this example:
> >
> > \showgrid
> > \starttext
> > \input tufte
> > \input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
> > \input tufte
> > \input tufte \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what }\footnote{Footnote 2}
> > \input tufte
> > \stoptext
> >
> > But that results into one (or two?) fewer line on the first page.
> >
> > Is there a possibility to implement the following rule? -> NEVER
> > move lines onto the next page to achieve footnote and reference
> > beging on the same page. If necessary set the footnote on the next
> > page, after the reference.
> >
> > Or would you suggest a better solution? I have a book with
> > grid=yes, so the default-setting is not suitable.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Huseyin


I do not know the details, but take a look at the following keywords
(which do the *opposite* of what you are seeking):

\setupnote
  [footnote]
  [split=verystrict,scope=page]

Alan
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Re: Place footnote after reference

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi,

> On 22 Jul 2019, at 16:37, Alan Braslau <braslau.list@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 16:27:45 +0200
> Denis Maier <maier.de@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> llI don't know a solution for this, but would be very interested.
>> With LaTeX you can use the `atbegshi`-package that gives you a
>> command ` \AtBeginShipoutNext`:
>> 
>> ```
>> \footnotemark
>> \clearpage
>> \AtBeginShipoutNext{\footnotetext{Text.}}

ConTeXt has a token register called \everybeforeoutput, which sounds
somewhat similar to me. The only problem is that it does not auto-reset,
so you have to do that yourself (by globally redefining the macro
that is called)

  \def\outstuff
    {\footnotetext{Whatever}%
     \gdef\outstuff{}}
  \prependtoks \outstuff  \to \everybeforeoutput

(there is also \everyafteroutput)

Whether that is usable or not for this problem, I do not know …

But I admit that I do not understand the problem all that well. I have
never run into a situation where I want the footnote to explicitly
*not* appear with its reference (except in endnotes). If my grid
settings were that specific, I would be using endnotes anyway.

Best wishes,

Taco




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Re: Place footnote after reference

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Alan Braslau schrieb am 22.07.2019 um 16:37:
> I do not know the details, but take a look at the following keywords
> (which do the *opposite* of what you are seeking):
>
> \setupnote
>    [footnote]
>    [split=verystrict,scope=page]

The scope setting isn't used in the current beta and the code is 
commented in the source.

Wolfgang

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Re: Place footnote after reference

[Huseyin Özoguz]

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Hi,

> But I admit that I do not understand the problem all that well. I have
> never run into a situation where I want the footnote to explicitly
> *not* appear with its reference (except in endnotes). If my grid
> settings were that specific, I would be using endnotes anyway.

I have this problem everywhere in a 400-page project with hundrets of 
footnotes and no special grid settings at all. How would you solve this 
situation (my minexamle):

\showgrid
\starttext
\input tufte
\input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
\input tufte
\input tufte \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what }\footnote{Footnote 2} \input tufte
\stoptext

The problem is, that Context (or Tex) skips lines, which is poor typesetting, too many even than necessary in some cases, and that is not suitable. Endnotes are no solutions aswell, I need footnotes. So the solution to have reference and footnote not on the same page seems the least bad workaround, if possible at all.

Thanks
Huseyin

-- 
Huseyin Özoguz

E-Mail: h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de


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Re: Place footnote after reference

[Rik Kabel]

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On 7/22/2019 12:34, Huseyin Özoguz wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>> But I admit that I do not understand the problem all that well. I have
>> never run into a situation where I want the footnote to explicitly
>> *not* appear with its reference (except in endnotes). If my grid
>> settings were that specific, I would be using endnotes anyway.
>
> I have this problem everywhere in a 400-page project with hundrets of 
> footnotes and no special grid settings at all. How would you solve 
> this situation (my minexamle):
>
> \showgrid
> \starttext
> \input tufte
> \input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
> \input tufte
> \input tufte \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what }\footnote{Footnote 2} \input tufte
> \stoptext
>
> The problem is, that Context (or Tex) skips lines, which is poor typesetting, too many even than necessary in some cases, and that is not suitable. Endnotes are no solutions aswell, I need footnotes. So the solution to have reference and footnote not on the same page seems the least bad workaround, if possible at all.
>
> Thanks
> Huseyin
>
> -- 
> Huseyin Özoguz
>
> E-Mail:h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de
>
Have you tried \setupnote[footnote][before={\blank[none]}] ?

-- 

Rik


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Re: Place footnote after reference

[Alan Braslau]

On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:34:34 +0200
Huseyin Özoguz <h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de> wrote:

> The problem is, that Context (or Tex) skips lines, which is poor
> typesetting, too many even than necessary in some cases, and that is
> not suitable. Endnotes are no solutions aswell, I need footnotes. So
> the solution to have reference and footnote not on the same page
> seems the least bad workaround, if possible at all.

So why not place footnotes in a (sufficiently large) reserved bottom
space? The typeset text area would then be uniform across all pages and
notes would appear where needed.

Alan
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Re: Place footnote after reference

[Huseyin Özoguz]

> So why not place footnotes in a (sufficiently large) reserved bottom
> space? The typeset text area would then be uniform across all pages and
> notes would appear where needed.

Would be possibe in some cases, but not in mine: I have many small 
footnones, only a few words, and some very long with several lines. With 
your solution I would waste 50%+ of the area or - as an alternative - I 
had to split the long footnotes across several pages and their 
footnote-areas. Actually that might be an interesting workaround ... I 
will try it, but it would cost still a lot of space and pages.

Huseyin

Huseyin Özoguz

E-Mail: h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de

Am 22.07.2019 um 19:14 schrieb Alan Braslau:
> On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:34:34 +0200
> Huseyin Özoguz <h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de> wrote:
>
>> The problem is, that Context (or Tex) skips lines, which is poor
>> typesetting, too many even than necessary in some cases, and that is
>> not suitable. Endnotes are no solutions aswell, I need footnotes. So
>> the solution to have reference and footnote not on the same page
>> seems the least bad workaround, if possible at all.
> So why not place footnotes in a (sufficiently large) reserved bottom
> space? The typeset text area would then be uniform across all pages and
> notes would appear where needed.
>
> Alan
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Re: Place footnote after reference

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi,

> On 22 Jul 2019, at 18:34, Huseyin Özoguz <h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de> wrote:
> 
> 
> The problem is, that Context (or Tex) skips lines, which is poor typesetting, too many even than necessary in some cases, and that is not suitable. 

ConTeXt does not skip too much in this example, it the second footnote
will just not fit with the (default) parameter set ConTeXt is using.

If the footnote 2 would be on the first page, that is an extra line for
the reference line, and an extra line for the actual note. There is 
an implicit \blank before the footnote rule, and that is a third ‘line’.

Since there only is 2 lines (and a bit) of space available, it will not fit.

Disable the default \blank with:

  \setupnote[footnote][before=]

and both notes will fit on the first page.

Best wishes,
Taco


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Re: Place footnote after reference

[Huseyin Özoguz]

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Thank Taco, that worked in the example, of course the general problem 
stays (thanks to Rik Kabel, too).

But with your suggestion I dicovered a interesting behaviour, see this 
example:

\showgrid
\setupnote[footnote][before=]
\starttext
\input tufte
\input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
\input tufte
\input tufte \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what }\footnote{Footnote 2} That 
does\footnote{Footnote 3} only\footnote{Footnote 4} work in special cases.
\stoptext

Now Context indeed sets the third and fourth footnote on the second 
page, but leaves the reference to them on the last line of the first 
page. This is exactly the behaviour I want in general. Could we force that?

/For testing: /If we add another footnote in the example above, it fails 
again - despite of the possibility to just typeset the lines exactly 
like in the example above, just move the footnotes on the next page, not 
the references - here might be some logic-mistake at work, because there 
should be no difference in my opinion between the examples:

\showgrid
\setupnote[footnote][before=]
\starttext
\input tufte
\input tufte \footnote{Footnote 1}
\input tufte
\input tufte \footnote{Footnote extra} \dorecurse{35}{Blub or what 
}\footnote{Footnote 2} That does\footnote{Footnote 3} 
only\footnote{Footnote 4} work in special cases.
\stoptext

-- 
Huseyin Özoguz

E-Mail: h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de


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