From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/42014 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andrea Valle Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: fonts (in luatex) (again) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:42:17 +0200 Message-ID: <82AFE03A-ADC3-452A-9D96-5E4877B52C9E@di.unito.it> References: <441B3D72-7906-465D-881E-2A821D1CBFC5@di.unito.it> <1214675743.7122.23.camel@elbereth> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2109430040==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1214858664 18494 80.91.229.12 (30 Jun 2008 20:44:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:44:24 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon Jun 30 22:45:09 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KDQFI-0008Br-3y for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:45:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61401FB6B; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:44:08 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 18744-02-33; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:43:12 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 652191FCF3; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:43:11 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B059E1FCF3 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:43:07 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 26027-01-4 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:42:33 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from swip.net (mailfe16.tele2.it [212.247.155.237]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE25E1FB6B for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:42:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Cloudmark-Score: 0.000000 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=2Kl6Dk0SNcMA:10 a=0AlhZijfHG0A:10 a=MiNTnEJAAAAA:8 a=YEMqx4UAAAAA:8 a=ACQCx6kCAAAA:8 a=bfVQUFbXAAAA:8 a=a3nu-2BBAAAA:8 a=bWVLTNCtAAAA:8 a=RuyKgJuBAAAA:8 a=rWvip_Uqo29yPBWr5x8A:9 a=gPu6_M6Lszz5D1ptN7YA:7 a=wek1QYyIH7TP5RukgjKhoknw-tcA:4 a=XF7b4UCPwd8A:10 a=qhpJJ41hMGhsDYHGeE0A:9 a=QLKeeq1uhjJxNYWBpVYA:7 a=ugvcMk29aJeVDRDWel9pX-aV9BYA:4 a=37WNUvjkh6kA:10 Original-Received: from [81.211.247.164] (account eu1547642@tele2.it HELO [192.168.1.2]) by mailfe16.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.4b) with ESMTPA id 252270131 for ntg-context@ntg.nl; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:42:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1214675743.7122.23.camel@elbereth> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:42014 Archived-At: --===============2109430040== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-54-328136631 --Apple-Mail-54-328136631 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Thanks Charles A praise from the heart to the devs. Wouldn't be possibile to support font selection like in XeTeX? This would make thing really a lot easier for sublunar users like me. Really, the whole process it's damn' complicated: no one a part 2 or =20 3 seems to know the details :) Best -a- On 28 Jun 2008, at 19:55, Charles P. Schaum wrote: > This first bit differentiates a "backend" that refers to your font =20 > and a > "frontend" that you normally work with. Why? > > Macros, macros, macros. Let's put it this way: You could have a myriad > of styles. That's what many in the WYSIWYG world do. Then ... they =20 > have > to keep track of them all. > > But TeX, as a Turing-complete programming language that could > theoretically be used for lots of things, has the design of local > redefinition, so that "sans" within a group or a macro can be =20 > redefined > to something other than delicious without you needing to worry about > keeping track of global style changes. > > In short, like the Unix "small is beautiful" philosophy (and good > programming) you make parts of your document that work, you put the > working parts together, and the whole thing should have a good shot at > working. It will also be remarkably consistent and behave in a manner > that is more regular than, for example, Word's typesetting engine. > > And if you are working on a source for different outputs or even > different possibilities of publication, you can switch out a font > without having to muck about through every font reference in your > document, saving hours of labor. >> >> \starttypescript [sans] [delicious] >> \setups[font:fallback:sans] >> \definefontsynonym [Sans] [Delicious-Regular] >> \definefontsynonym [SansItalic] [Delicious-Italic] >> \definefontsynonym [SansBold] [Delicious-Bold] >> \definefontsynonym [SansBoldItalic] [Delicious-BoldItalic] >> \definefontsynonym [SansCaps] [Delicious-Caps] >> \stoptypescript >> > > As I understand, this next bit maps the "expectations" of the > typesetting engine to the capabilities of the font. For example, when > working with InDesign/InCopy and importing things from Word, there's a > difference between character style mappings and local overrides. > > Word processors usually employ local overrides. That means usually the > typesetting engine picks from the alternative of a font face for bold, > italic, and so on, or it takes the default face and changes its > rasterization to create a faux bold, italic, and so on. In good > typesetting, however, you actually link character styles with actual > fonts, just like you would when hand-compositing blocks of type in a > typecase with lots of clamps and so on. > > This bit looks like what character styles do in InDesign. The more =20 > I get > into InDesign and work with my designers, the more I understand the > basic typographical principles that make TeX and ConTeXt elegant. >> >> \starttypescript [sans] [delicious] >> \definefontsynonym [Delicious-Regular] [name:Delicious-Roman] >> [features=3Ddefault] >> \definefontsynonym [Delicious-Italic] [name:Delicious-Italic] >> [features=3Ddefault] >> \definefontsynonym [Delicious-Bold] [name:Delicious-Bold] >> [features=3Ddefault] >> \definefontsynonym [Delicious-BoldItalic] >> [name:Delicious-BoldItalic] [features=3Ddefault] >> \definefontsynonym [Delicious-Caps] [name:Delicious-SmallCaps] >> [features=3Ddefault] >> \stoptypescript >> >> > > The following is not in the Ubuntu-distributed manual, so I am not =20 > sure > about it. > >> \starttypescript [delicious] >> \definetypeface [delicious] [ss] [sans] [delicious] [default] >> \stoptypescript >> > > > > ______________________________________________________________________=20= > _____________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an =20 > entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/=20 > ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ______________________________________________________________________=20= > _____________ -------------------------------------------------- Andrea Valle -------------------------------------------------- CIRMA - DAMS Universit=E0 degli Studi di Torino --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/ --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle --> andrea.valle@unito.it -------------------------------------------------- " Think of it as seasoning . noise [salt] is boring . F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring . F(noise, blah) can be really tasty " (Ken Perlin on noise) --Apple-Mail-54-328136631 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks Charles

A praise from the heart to the = devs.
Wouldn't be possibile to support font selection like in = XeTeX?
This would make thing really a lot easier for sublunar = users like me.

Really, the whole process it's = damn' complicated: no one a part 2 or 3 seems to know the details = :)

Best

-a-

On 28 Jun 2008, at 19:55, Charles P. Schaum = wrote:

This first bit differentiates a = "backend" that refers to your font and a

Macros, = macros, macros. Let's put it this way: You could have a myriad
of styles. That's what many in the WYSIWYG world do. = Then ... they have
to keep track of them = all.

But TeX, as a Turing-complete programming language = that could
theoretically be used for lots = of things, has the design of local
redefinition, = so that "sans" within a group or a macro can be redefined
to something other than delicious without you = needing to worry about
keeping track of global = style changes.

In short, like the Unix "small is beautiful" = philosophy (and good
programming) you make parts = of your document that work, you put the
working = parts together, and the whole thing should have a good shot at
working. It will also be remarkably consistent and = behave in a manner
that is more regular than, = for example, Word's typesetting engine.

And if you = are working on a source for different outputs or even
different possibilities of publication, you can = switch out a font
without having to muck about = through every font reference in your
document, = saving hours of labor.

=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0


As I = understand, this next bit maps the "expectations" of the
typesetting engine to the capabilities of the font. = For example, when
working with InDesign/InCopy and = importing things from Word, there's a

Word processors usually employ local overrides. That = means usually the
typesetting engine picks from = the alternative of a font face for bold,
italic, = and so on, or it takes the default face and changes its
rasterization to create a faux bold, italic, and so = on. In good
typesetting, however, you = actually link character styles with actual
fonts, = just like you would when hand-compositing blocks of type in a
typecase with lots of clamps and so on.

This bit = looks like what character styles do in InDesign. The more I = get
into InDesign and work with my = designers, the more I understand the
basic = typographical principles that make TeX and ConTeXt elegant.
=
\starttypescript [sans] = [delicious]=A0
\definefontsynonym [Delicious-Regular] = [name:Delicious-Roman]=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0



The following = is not in the Ubuntu-distributed manual, so I am not sure
about it.

=A0
=A0
=A0




If your question is of interest = to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist = : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/= mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
http://www.cirma.unito.it/andre= a/
= --------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as = seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. = F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. = F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on = noise)




=
= --Apple-Mail-54-328136631-- --===============2109430040== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============2109430040==--