WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Jonas Baggett]

Hi everyone,

This is a blog post I recently published: 
https://jonas17b.wixsite.com/monsite/home/wysiwym-editor-on-top-of-context-lout. 
It is about some ideas I have for a WYSIWYM editor like LyX, but it 
would be designed for using more than 1 backend (e.g. ConTeXt, Lout), 
and to give a much better user experience.

Anyone interested by the concept?

Cheers,
Jonas

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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Brian Ballsun-Stanton]

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Hi Jonas,

A desktop editor, not so much. But it'd be wonderful to have a cloud based
one with Git integration. I've rolled my own with floobits and my own VM,
but that doesn't scale and I can't share it with my students.

What you describe has already been worked on by overleaf in terms of a
realtime option instead of a code option. Maybe extending their work would
be a good place to start?
Cheers,
-Brian

On 2 December 2017 at 18:42, Jonas Baggett <jonas17b@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> This is a blog post I recently published: https://jonas17b.wixsite.com/m
> onsite/home/wysiwym-editor-on-top-of-context-lout. It is about some ideas
> I have for a WYSIWYM editor like LyX, but it would be designed for using
> more than 1 backend (e.g. ConTeXt, Lout), and to give a much better user
> experience.
>
> Anyone interested by the concept?
>
> Cheers,
> Jonas
>
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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Siep Kroonenberg]

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On Sat, Dec 02, 2017 at 08:42:59AM +0100, Jonas Baggett wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> This is a blog post I recently published: https://jonas17b.wixsite.com/monsite/home/wysiwym-editor-on-top-of-context-lout.

See screenshot showing your website in my browser.

-- 
Siep Kroonenberg

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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Gour]

On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 19:40:35 +1100
Brian Ballsun-Stanton <denubisx@gmail.com> wrote:

> A desktop editor, not so much. But it'd be wonderful to have a cloud
> based one with Git integration. 

+1 for desktop editor, although I plan to use Emacs for my ConTeXt writing, so
having better support in AUCTeX would be also nice. At the end, I believe that
Emacs is not so scary as it looks, especially for the folks ready to enter into
the world of things like ConTeXt...

As far as Git integration is concerned, not very important feature for me since
I prefer using Fossil. ;)

Btw, Lout is also interesting, but, iirc, it lacks proper Unicode
(UTF-8) support. Recently I was also looking at groff/mom...


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
Not by merely abstaining from work can one achieve freedom
from reaction, nor by renunciation alone can one attain perfection.


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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2017-12-02 um 08:42 schrieb Jonas Baggett <jonas17b@gmail.com>:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> This is a blog post I recently published: https://jonas17b.wixsite.com/monsite/home/wysiwym-editor-on-top-of-context-lout. It is about some ideas I have for a WYSIWYM editor like LyX, but it would be designed for using more than 1 backend (e.g. ConTeXt, Lout), and to give a much better user experience.
> 
> Anyone interested by the concept?

Hi Jonas,

sounds interesting, there might be overlap with what I tried for an editorial system (web-app on which I can’t work for the time being, since the customer plays dead and I got other projects):
There I use an usual HTML editor plugin (TinyMCE, CKEditor) and would convert its output to ConTeXt and whatever the customer wants, most probably IDML (InDesign-XML). User formatting must be restricted to predefined styles (also WRT images).
As far as I understood, Pragma has something similar running for educational material.

A standalone app like LyX wouldn’t fit my needs. Consider creating it as a plugin to some platform like Atom or a web framework?

Greetlings, Hraban
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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Jonas Baggett]

Hi Hraban,

The type of users that I would like to target, will be those writting 
documents of more than 10 - 12 pages. Typically students or professional 
that are used to write reports with Word but would be interested to use 
a more productive editor, but not ready to move too far away from WYSIWYG.

For me, being able to work offline is almost a must have. Having an 
online mode could enable some interesting features, such as 
collaborative editing, but if the application is internet dependant and 
you have a problem with your internet connection, then you cannot do the 
very basics you would expect from a document editor.

 From my understanding, Atom is a modified version of Chrome that 
behaves like an offline editor, so that's an option that I would like to 
consider.

Actually I am working for a web development company, I will submit the 
idea, as it could well be that there are other use cases, that I am not 
aware of, where such an editor as a web application could make sense. 
But still, a standalone application makes sense to me for the use cases 
I am considering.

Cheers,
Jonas


Le 02.12.17 à 13:55, Henning Hraban Ramm a écrit :
> Am 2017-12-02 um 08:42 schrieb Jonas Baggett <jonas17b@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> This is a blog post I recently published: https://jonas17b.wixsite.com/monsite/home/wysiwym-editor-on-top-of-context-lout. It is about some ideas I have for a WYSIWYM editor like LyX, but it would be designed for using more than 1 backend (e.g. ConTeXt, Lout), and to give a much better user experience.
>>
>> Anyone interested by the concept?
> Hi Jonas,
>
> sounds interesting, there might be overlap with what I tried for an editorial system (web-app on which I can’t work for the time being, since the customer plays dead and I got other projects):
> There I use an usual HTML editor plugin (TinyMCE, CKEditor) and would convert its output to ConTeXt and whatever the customer wants, most probably IDML (InDesign-XML). User formatting must be restricted to predefined styles (also WRT images).
> As far as I understood, Pragma has something similar running for educational material.
>
> A standalone app like LyX wouldn’t fit my needs. Consider creating it as a plugin to some platform like Atom or a web framework?
>
> Greetlings, Hraban
> ---
> http://www.fiee.net
> http://wiki.contextgarden.net
> GPG Key ID 1C9B22FD
>
>

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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Jonas Baggett]

 > Hi Jonas,
 > A desktop editor, not so much. But it'd be wonderful to have a cloud 
based
 > one with Git integration. I've rolled my own with floobits and my own VM,
 > but that doesn't scale and I can't share it with my students.
 >
 > What you describe has already been worked on by overleaf in terms of a
 > realtime option instead of a code option. Maybe extending their work 
would
 > be a good place to start?
 > Cheers,
 > -Brian
Hi Brian,

The type of users that I would like to target, will be those writting 
rather classical documents of more than 10 - 12 pages and wanting to be 
able to focus much more on the content than in the formatting but still 
have good looking results. Typically students or professional that are 
used to write reports with Word but would be interested to use a more 
productive editor, but not ready to move too far away from WYSIWYG.

I didn't made a definitive choice yet, but I believe that being able to 
use the editor offline, independantly of the user internet connection, 
is almost like a must have. But what sounds interesting, as a nice to 
have, would be an editor that can both work in a cloud workflow which 
enables features like instant collaborative editing, and a git-like 
workflow where user can work offline, then publish online, and if 
needed, resolve conflicts.

In regards to the realtime option of overleaf, I guess that after each 
change of the document, it runs LaTeX to export the document to PDF. The 
template edition mode would do something different as first it won't be 
updated realtime: it is only when the user switch to the template 
edition mode that the template as well as the contents will rendered on 
screen by the editor, without doing any export to PDF.

Cheers,
Jonas

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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Jonas Baggett]

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> >/A desktop editor, not so much. But it'd be wonderful to have a cloud />/based one with Git integration. /
> +1 for desktop editor, although I plan to use Emacs for my ConTeXt writing, so
> having better support in AUCTeX would be also nice. At the end, I believe that
> Emacs is not so scary as it looks, especially for the folks ready to enter into
> the world of things like ConTeXt...
>
> As far as Git integration is concerned, not very important feature for me since
> I prefer using Fossil. ;)
>
> Btw, Lout is also interesting, but, iirc, it lacks proper Unicode
> (UTF-8) support. Recently I was also looking at groff/mom...
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Gour
Hi Gour,

The users I want to target are those currently using Word or alike, and 
would be interested by something that enables them to do more productive 
work, without moving too far away from WYSIWYG. But it could well happen 
that after being introduced to ConTeXt or Lout by such an editor, that 
some of them wish to enter into the world of things ;-).

By the way, I have made a recent update of the concepts in 
https://jonas17b.wixsite.com/monsite/home/wysiwym-editor-on-top-of-context-lout 
point number 7 was added under the mockup (a frame can be displayed to 
configure margins, header, footer and footnotes).

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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Roger Mason]

Hello,

Jonas Baggett <jonas17b@gmail.com> writes:

> This is a blog post I recently published:
> https://jonas17b.wixsite.com/monsite/home/wysiwym-editor-on-top-of-context-lout. It
> is about some ideas I have for a WYSIWYM editor like LyX, but it would
> be designed for using more than 1 backend (e.g. ConTeXt, Lout), and to
> give a much better user experience.
>
> Anyone interested by the concept?

While not an editor, but rather a language, Skribilo
(http://www.nongnu.org/skribilo/) can output documents in various
formats, including Context and Lout.  I have worked a bit on getting
better Context output from it and last tinkered with the math output
about a year ago.  Such a system might form the output engine on which
an editor could be built.  The same might be said for Pandoc, in which
case perhaps one of the existing Haskell editors could be used as the
basis for a specialised text processing system.  For non-technical
documents SiSU (http://www.jus.uio.no/lm/toc.html) offers various output
formats, but again it is not an editor.

While your concept is interesting, I'm an Emacs user, and unlikely to
switch to anything else.

Cheers,
Roger
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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Aditya Mahajan]

> This is a blog post I recently published: 
> https://jonas17b.wixsite.com/monsite/home/wysiwym-editor-on-top-of-context-lout. 
> It is about some ideas I have for a WYSIWYM editor like LyX, but it 
> would be designed for using more than 1 backend (e.g. ConTeXt, Lout), 
> and to give a much better user experience.

I am curious if you have looked into if it is possible to add a ConTeXt 
backend to LyX. AFAIU, LyX saves the document in a "Lyx format" and then 
transforms it into LaTeX. It might be simplest to write a translator from 
the internal lyx format to ConTeXt and Lout.

Aditya
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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Jonas Baggett]

Le 03.12.17 à 18:00, Aditya Mahajan a écrit :
>> This is a blog post I recently published: 
>> https://jonas17b.wixsite.com/monsite/home/wysiwym-editor-on-top-of-context-lout. 
>> It is about some ideas I have for a WYSIWYM editor like LyX, but it 
>> would be designed for using more than 1 backend (e.g. ConTeXt, Lout), 
>> and to give a much better user experience.
>
> I am curious if you have looked into if it is possible to add a 
> ConTeXt backend to LyX. AFAIU, LyX saves the document in a "Lyx 
> format" and then transforms it into LaTeX. It might be simplest to 
> write a translator from the internal lyx format to ConTeXt and Lout.
>
> Aditya
>
--

Hi Aditya,

 From what I have seen, the LyX format is a LaTeX file with a thin layer 
on top of it. So basically I would need to write a LaTeX to ConTeXt/Lout 
converter ;-). Looks like to me that this editor that I would like to 
design cannot be implemented as an incremental improvement to LyX, as it 
would be a too radical change.

In regards to the translator, I have thought about implementing rules of 
translations in a text file for each supported backend. Advantage would 
be that it will be easy for any user to add a new backend or extend an 
existing one to cover new features or to fix incompatibility issues.

Here is +/- how could look like rules of translations, with the left 
expression, something described in the document format and the right 
expression, the same thing described in the backend format:

<func>[<param_1> = <value_1>, <param_2> = <value_2>]{<body>}  =>  
@<func>(<param_1> -> <value_1>, <param_2> -> <value_2>){<body>}

At this point if we have in document:

start_section[title = Introduction, back_ground_color = green]

it will be translated to @startSection(title -> Introduction, 
back_ground_color -> green)

but if it has instead to be translated to @startHeader(1, Introduction, 
bgColor -> green), we will add the following in the translation file:

start_section[title = <the_title>, back_ground_color = <the_color>] => 
@startHeader(1, <the_title>, bgColor -> <the_color>)

Idea is that it starts with very general translation rules and then it 
gets more and more detailled for every cases that don't follow the more 
general rules.

Cheers,
Jonas
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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Jan Tosovsky]

On 2017-12-02 Jonas Baggett wrote:
> 
> This is a blog post I recently published:
> https://jonas17b.wixsite.com/monsite/home/wysiwym-editor-on-top-of-
> context-lout.
> It is about some ideas I have for a WYSIWYM editor like LyX, but it
> would be designed for using more than 1 backend (e.g. ConTeXt, Lout),
> and to give a much better user experience.

Visual editing of complex structures is hard to implement. For XML based publishing there is just single serious tool!
https://www.oxygenxml.com/xml_author/docbook_editor_structured_editing.html

Desktop is IMHO declining so I'd personally prefer a web app, which could be then packed even for desktop via https://electronjs.org/

While web frontend development was very fragmented in past, most developers nowadays prefer https://reactjs.org/ framework.

For visual editing an advanced rich text editor is a must. This one is really promising https://github.com/ianstormtaylor/slate as it can read/write custom scheme. Btw, it is used in https://github.com/GitbookIO/gitbook project. Mentioning Gitbook, it could also be a source of inspiration.

Regards,

Jan 










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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2017-12-06, at 00:01, Jan Tosovsky <j.tosovsky@email.cz> wrote:

> On 2017-12-02 Jonas Baggett wrote:
>> 
>> This is a blog post I recently published:
>> https://jonas17b.wixsite.com/monsite/home/wysiwym-editor-on-top-of-
>> context-lout.
>> It is about some ideas I have for a WYSIWYM editor like LyX, but it
>> would be designed for using more than 1 backend (e.g. ConTeXt, Lout),
>> and to give a much better user experience.
>
> Visual editing of complex structures is hard to implement. For XML based publishing there is just single serious tool!
> https://www.oxygenxml.com/xml_author/docbook_editor_structured_editing.html

Strange nobody mentioned Org-mode!

Also, this:
https://emacs.cafe/emacs/guest-post/2017/06/26/hierarchy.html (works
with JSON OOTB, but most probably could be used to edit XML).

> Desktop is IMHO declining so I'd personally prefer a web app, which could be then packed even for desktop via https://electronjs.org/

Desktop declining???  That's terrifying, since 99% of web apps suck a lot!

> For visual editing an advanced rich text editor is a must. This one is really promising https://github.com/ianstormtaylor/slate as it can read/write custom scheme. Btw, it is used in https://github.com/GitbookIO/gitbook project. Mentioning Gitbook, it could also be a source of inspiration.

Again, Emacs (perhaps with Org-mode).

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Jan Tosovsky]

On 2017-12-06 Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> On 2017-12-06, at 00:01, Jan Tosovsky <j.tosovsky@email.cz> wrote:
>> On 2017-12-02 Jonas Baggett wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a blog post I recently published:
>>> https://jonas17b.wixsite.com/monsite/home/wysiwym-editor-on-top-of-context-lout
>>> It is about some ideas I have for a WYSIWYM editor like LyX, but it
>>> would be designed for using more than 1 backend (e.g. ConTeXt, Lout),
>>> and to give a much better user experience.
>>
>> Visual editing of complex structures is hard to implement. For XML based
>> publishing there is just single serious tool!
>> https://www.oxygenxml.com/xml_author/docbook_editor_structured_editing.html
> 
> Strange nobody mentioned Org-mode!
> 
> Also, this:
> https://emacs.cafe/emacs/guest-post/2017/06/26/hierarchy.html (works
> with JSON OOTB, but most probably could be used to edit XML).

I meant visual editing (WYSIWYM), see e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3z2sYEaLHM 

Jan



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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2017-12-06, at 22:03, Jan Tosovsky <j.tosovsky@email.cz> wrote:

> On 2017-12-06 Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>> On 2017-12-06, at 00:01, Jan Tosovsky <j.tosovsky@email.cz> wrote:
>>> On 2017-12-02 Jonas Baggett wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is a blog post I recently published:
>>>> https://jonas17b.wixsite.com/monsite/home/wysiwym-editor-on-top-of-context-lout
>>>> It is about some ideas I have for a WYSIWYM editor like LyX, but it
>>>> would be designed for using more than 1 backend (e.g. ConTeXt, Lout),
>>>> and to give a much better user experience.
>>>
>>> Visual editing of complex structures is hard to implement. For XML based
>>> publishing there is just single serious tool!
>>> https://www.oxygenxml.com/xml_author/docbook_editor_structured_editing.html
>> 
>> Strange nobody mentioned Org-mode!
>> 
>> Also, this:
>> https://emacs.cafe/emacs/guest-post/2017/06/26/hierarchy.html (works
>> with JSON OOTB, but most probably could be used to edit XML).
>
> I meant visual editing (WYSIWYM), see e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3z2sYEaLHM 

Doesn't Emacs with Org-mode or hierarchy do just that?

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Jonas Baggett]

> While not an editor, but rather a language, Skribilo
> (http://www.nongnu.org/skribilo/) can output documents in various
> formats, including Context and Lout.  I have worked a bit on getting
> better Context output from it and last tinkered with the math output
> about a year ago.  Such a system might form the output engine on which
> an editor could be built.  The same might be said for Pandoc, in which
> case perhaps one of the existing Haskell editors could be used as the
> basis for a specialised text processing system.  For non-technical
> documents SiSU (http://www.jus.uio.no/lm/toc.html) offers various output
> formats, but again it is not an editor.
>
> While your concept is interesting, I'm an Emacs user, and unlikely to
> switch to anything else.
>
> Cheers,
> Roger
--

Hi Roger,

Thank you for the suggestion. I was first thinking about incrementally 
creating a custom format that evolves as features are implemented. And 
for translating the custom format into a backend format, I was thinking 
of creating files with translations rules for each backend so that 
anyone can add support for a new backend or update an existing backend 
to add more feature or to make it compatible with a newer version of the 
backend, without needing to modify the editor code. A translation rule 
is e.g. start_section[title=<the_title>, back_ground_color=<the_color>] 
=> @startsection(title -> {<the_title>}, bg_color -> {<the_color>}) 
which will convert a start section command of the document format into 
the same command for a backend format.

At first glance that way seems to be the easiest way for me, but 
Skribilo looks interesting as a fallback option, although I find its 
syntax to be weird, if I find out that the idea with translation rules 
isn't working as expected.

Cheers,
Jonas
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Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Floris van Manen]

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it might be simpler to have a ‘watch’ option for the context compiler combined with an ‘open result’.
e.g. the coffeescript compiler allows for a ‘-w’ option, it will keep the compiler running in the background and
start compiling the file(s) as soon as it detects any changes.

i guess such feature might already exist in the rich mtx context tools environment.
not sure where to look though …

.F


> On 7 Dec 2017, at 07:42, Jonas Baggett <jonas17b@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> While not an editor, but rather a language, Skribilo
>> (http://www.nongnu.org/skribilo/) can output documents in various
>> formats, including Context and Lout.  I have worked a bit on getting
>> better Context output from it and last tinkered with the math output
>> about a year ago.  Such a system might form the output engine on which
>> an editor could be built.  The same might be said for Pandoc, in which
>> case perhaps one of the existing Haskell editors could be used as the
>> basis for a specialised text processing system.  For non-technical
>> documents SiSU (http://www.jus.uio.no/lm/toc.html) offers various output
>> formats, but again it is not an editor.
>> 
>> While your concept is interesting, I'm an Emacs user, and unlikely to
>> switch to anything else.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Roger
> --
> 
> Hi Roger,
> 
> Thank you for the suggestion. I was first thinking about incrementally creating a custom format that evolves as features are implemented. And for translating the custom format into a backend format, I was thinking of creating files with translations rules for each backend so that anyone can add support for a new backend or update an existing backend to add more feature or to make it compatible with a newer version of the backend, without needing to modify the editor code. A translation rule is e.g. start_section[title=<the_title>, back_ground_color=<the_color>] => @startsection(title -> {<the_title>}, bg_color -> {<the_color>}) which will convert a start section command of the document format into the same command for a backend format.
> 
> At first glance that way seems to be the easiest way for me, but Skribilo looks interesting as a fallback option, although I find its syntax to be weird, if I find out that the idea with translation rules isn't working as expected.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jonas
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________


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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Aditya Mahajan]

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On Thu, 7 Dec 2017, Floris van Manen wrote:

> it might be simpler to have a ‘watch’ option for the context compiler 
> combined with an ‘open result’. e.g. the coffeescript compiler allows 
> for a ‘-w’ option, it will keep the compiler running in the background 
> and start compiling the file(s) as soon as it detects any changes.
>
> i guess such feature might already exist in the rich mtx context tools environment.
> not sure where to look though …

I use atchange perl script for such tasks:

https://schneider.ncifcrf.gov/atchange.html

Aditya

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[Roger Mason]

Hello Jonas,

Jonas Baggett <jonas17b@gmail.com> writes:

> Thank you for the suggestion. I was first thinking about incrementally
> creating a custom format that evolves as features are implemented. And
> for translating the custom format into a backend format, I was
> thinking of creating files with translations rules for each backend so
> that anyone can add support for a new backend or update an existing
> backend to add more feature or to make it compatible with a newer
> version of the backend, without needing to modify the editor code. A
> translation rule is e.g. start_section[title=<the_title>,
> back_ground_color=<the_color>] => @startsection(title ->
> {<the_title>}, bg_color -> {<the_color>}) which will convert a start
> section command of the document format into the same command for a
> backend format.

Skribilo uses an abstract syntax internally and the different output
engines process that into the target language.  In essence each engine
is the collection of rules appropriate to that target.

> At first glance that way seems to be the easiest way for me, but
> Skribilo looks interesting as a fallback option, although I find its
> syntax to be weird, if I find out that the idea with translation rules
> isn't working as expected.

There are two input syntaxes, a simple one a bit like Emacs' outline
mode and the more Scheme-like syntax.  The former has limitations
documented on the Skribilo web-site, the latter is far more complete.  I
an guessing it is the Scheme-like syntax that you find weird.  I have
played around a a little this week on using Wisp
(http://www.draketo.de/proj/wisp/) and Readable
(http://readable.sourceforge.net/) to write Skribilo in a less
parenthesis rich style.  Although not able to complete the work owing to
time constraints, it looks acheivavble.

Cheers,
Roger

Off topic
========

My goal would be to have an output ConTeXt (or Lout) document, with
fallback to LaTeX or XML if a publisher insists.  If this could be
combined with Emacs org-mode to document, store and run (or compile-run)
source code, then a very complete and versatile system for reproducible
reasearch could be constructed.


___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[William Adams]

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Is it not an option to use LyX, and then pandoc to convert to ConTeXt?

http://pandoc.org/

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Roger Mason <rmason@mun.ca> wrote:

> Hello Jonas,
>
> Jonas Baggett <jonas17b@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Thank you for the suggestion. I was first thinking about incrementally
> > creating a custom format that evolves as features are implemented. And
> > for translating the custom format into a backend format, I was
> > thinking of creating files with translations rules for each backend so
> > that anyone can add support for a new backend or update an existing
> > backend to add more feature or to make it compatible with a newer
> > version of the backend, without needing to modify the editor code. A
> > translation rule is e.g. start_section[title=<the_title>,
> > back_ground_color=<the_color>] => @startsection(title ->
> > {<the_title>}, bg_color -> {<the_color>}) which will convert a start
> > section command of the document format into the same command for a
> > backend format.
>
> Skribilo uses an abstract syntax internally and the different output
> engines process that into the target language.  In essence each engine
> is the collection of rules appropriate to that target.
>
> > At first glance that way seems to be the easiest way for me, but
> > Skribilo looks interesting as a fallback option, although I find its
> > syntax to be weird, if I find out that the idea with translation rules
> > isn't working as expected.
>
> There are two input syntaxes, a simple one a bit like Emacs' outline
> mode and the more Scheme-like syntax.  The former has limitations
> documented on the Skribilo web-site, the latter is far more complete.  I
> an guessing it is the Scheme-like syntax that you find weird.  I have
> played around a a little this week on using Wisp
> (http://www.draketo.de/proj/wisp/) and Readable
> (http://readable.sourceforge.net/) to write Skribilo in a less
> parenthesis rich style.  Although not able to complete the work owing to
> time constraints, it looks acheivavble.
>
> Cheers,
> Roger
>
> Off topic
> ========
>
> My goal would be to have an output ConTeXt (or Lout) document, with
> fallback to LaTeX or XML if a publisher insists.  If this could be
> combined with Emacs org-mode to document, store and run (or compile-run)
> source code, then a very complete and versatile system for reproducible
> reasearch could be constructed.
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
> the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/
> listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________________
>

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: WYSIWYM editor on top of ConTeXt / Lout

[William Adams]

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Mentioned on their wiki at: https://wiki.lyx.org/FAQ/ImportExport

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 8:55 AM, William Adams <will.adams@frycomm.com>
wrote:

> Is it not an option to use LyX, and then pandoc to convert to ConTeXt?
>
> http://pandoc.org/
>
> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Roger Mason <rmason@mun.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hello Jonas,
>>
>> Jonas Baggett <jonas17b@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > Thank you for the suggestion. I was first thinking about incrementally
>> > creating a custom format that evolves as features are implemented. And
>> > for translating the custom format into a backend format, I was
>> > thinking of creating files with translations rules for each backend so
>> > that anyone can add support for a new backend or update an existing
>> > backend to add more feature or to make it compatible with a newer
>> > version of the backend, without needing to modify the editor code. A
>> > translation rule is e.g. start_section[title=<the_title>,
>> > back_ground_color=<the_color>] => @startsection(title ->
>> > {<the_title>}, bg_color -> {<the_color>}) which will convert a start
>> > section command of the document format into the same command for a
>> > backend format.
>>
>> Skribilo uses an abstract syntax internally and the different output
>> engines process that into the target language.  In essence each engine
>> is the collection of rules appropriate to that target.
>>
>> > At first glance that way seems to be the easiest way for me, but
>> > Skribilo looks interesting as a fallback option, although I find its
>> > syntax to be weird, if I find out that the idea with translation rules
>> > isn't working as expected.
>>
>> There are two input syntaxes, a simple one a bit like Emacs' outline
>> mode and the more Scheme-like syntax.  The former has limitations
>> documented on the Skribilo web-site, the latter is far more complete.  I
>> an guessing it is the Scheme-like syntax that you find weird.  I have
>> played around a a little this week on using Wisp
>> (http://www.draketo.de/proj/wisp/) and Readable
>> (http://readable.sourceforge.net/) to write Skribilo in a less
>> parenthesis rich style.  Although not able to complete the work owing to
>> time constraints, it looks acheivavble.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Roger
>>
>> Off topic
>> ========
>>
>> My goal would be to have an output ConTeXt (or Lout) document, with
>> fallback to LaTeX or XML if a publisher insists.  If this could be
>> combined with Emacs org-mode to document, store and run (or compile-run)
>> source code, then a very complete and versatile system for reproducible
>> reasearch could be constructed.
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> _______________________
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
>> the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/list
>> info/ntg-context
>> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
>> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
>> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> _______________________
>>
>
>

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