markup format ---> ConTeXt

markup format ---> ConTeXt

[Gour]

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Hi!

At the moment I use Emacs Muse for writing my study notes which I then
have to submit as *.doc file (muse --> html -> OO --> doc).

I like it 'cause it enables me to combine all the notes and convert into
ConTeXt later.

However, the only disadvantage of it is that Muse markup is tied to
Emacs editor and not so popular for those using other editors. Therefore
I am considering some other 'easy' markup with the ConTeXt back-end.

Some of the more popular markup-formats are AsciiDoc
(http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/index.html) and reStructuredText
(http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html), but according to what I see
both are missing ConTeXt back-end (latex only) :-(

Any suggestion for 'popular' markup with ConTexT back-end?


Sincerely,
Gour


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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Fri, 30 May 2008, Gour wrote:

> Hi!
>
> At the moment I use Emacs Muse for writing my study notes which I then
> have to submit as *.doc file (muse --> html -> OO --> doc).
>
> I like it 'cause it enables me to combine all the notes and convert into
> ConTeXt later.
>
> However, the only disadvantage of it is that Muse markup is tied to
> Emacs editor and not so popular for those using other editors. Therefore
> I am considering some other 'easy' markup with the ConTeXt back-end.
>
> Some of the more popular markup-formats are AsciiDoc
> (http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/index.html) and reStructuredText
> (http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html), but according to what I see
> both are missing ConTeXt back-end (latex only) :-(
>
> Any suggestion for 'popular' markup with ConTexT back-end?

Have a look at pandoc which converts markdown to ConTeXt and also to many 
other formats including html. There was also some discussion for 
conversion to OO, but I do not know the current status of that.

http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/

Aditya
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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt

[Gour]

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>>>>> "Aditya" == Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu> writes:

Hello Mahajan ;)

Aditya> Have a look at pandoc which converts markdown to ConTeXt and
Aditya> also to many other formats including html. There was also some
Aditya> discussion for conversion to OO, but I do not know the current
Aditya> status of that.

Heh, shortly after posting to the list I found out about pandoc.

One thing which worries me is the info from user-guide: "...For example,
it doesn’t handle tables, option lists, or footnotes." 

Do you have any experience with pandoc and reST as well as quality of
ConTeXt output?

It looks that markdown is first class citizen in pandoc, but no idea how
it compares with ReST.


Sincerely,
Gour

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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt

[Maurice Diamantini]

Le 30 mai 08 à 13:22, Aditya Mahajan a écrit :

> On Fri, 30 May 2008, Gour wrote:
>
>> Some of the more popular markup-formats are AsciiDoc
>> (http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/index.html) and reStructuredText
>> (http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html), but according to what I  
>> see
>> both are missing ConTeXt back-end (latex only) :-(
>>
>> Any suggestion for 'popular' markup with ConTexT back-end?
>
> Have a look at pandoc which converts markdown to ConTeXt and also to  
> many
> other formats including html. There was also some discussion for
> conversion to OO, but I do not know the current status of that.
>
> http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/


Just some remarks/questions:
- docbook seems to be the standard for describing documentation data,
- dblatex seams to be a currently good supported tools for **easely**  
provide pdf
   output from docbook input, and cutomize the output with .xsl  
parameters or
   LaTeX .sty files
- dbcontext seams not to be maintained very much
- ConTeXt seams to be able to directly parse xml without external tools

So, what about make ConTeXt directly reading dokbook file and output  
pdf file?
I see the http://www.leverkruid.eu/context/index.html page from Simon  
Pepping.
But it seems that this project is down.

If ConTeXt provide an easy way for translate docbook to pdf file  
(usable by
a non (ie. not yet) ConTeXt user as dblatex is), I think poeple could  
switch
to ConTeXt only for that feature (not everybody have dependency with  
LaTeX!)
Then the problem would resume to find a good "yourPreferedWikiFormat" to
docbook...
(I'v not seen any "t-bocbook" file on http://dl.contextgarden.net/modules)


-- Maurice



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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Maurice Diamantini
<Maurice.Diamantini@ensta.fr> wrote:

> Just some remarks/questions:
> - docbook seems to be the standard for describing documentation data,
> - dblatex seams to be a currently good supported tools for **easely**
> provide pdf output from docbook input, and cutomize the output with .xsl
> parameters or LaTeX .sty files
> - dbcontext seams not to be maintained very much

I don't think the code in the module is nowadays a good example for writing
a module because many low level commands are redefined and it should
work now out of the box with the current code or better witth MkIV.

> - ConTeXt seams to be able to directly parse xml without external tools
>
> So, what about make ConTeXt directly reading dokbook file and output
> pdf file? I see the http://www.leverkruid.eu/context/index.html page from
> Simon Pepping. But it seems that this project is down.

Not many people asked for Docbook support in ConTeXt and I found only
three interseting threads in my mail folder.

http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2007/026545.html
http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2007/025428.html
http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2007/025358.html

> If ConTeXt provide an easy way for translate docbook to pdf file
> (usable by a non (ie. not yet) ConTeXt user as dblatex is), I think poeple
> could switch to ConTeXt only for that feature (not everybody have
> dependency with LaTeX!)

> Then the problem would resume to find a good "yourPreferedWikiFormat" to
> docbook...

> (I'v not seen any "t-bocbook" file on http://dl.contextgarden.net/modules)

The module you mention above is the only (complete?) docbook style
but ConTeXt provides cals table support by default and mapping for the
basic elements to ConTeXt shouldn't be a problem, give us the information
what do you need and we write a module.

Greetings
Wolfgang
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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt

[Maurice Diamantini]

Le 3 juin 08 à 09:43, Wolfgang Schuster a écrit :

> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Maurice Diamantini
> <Maurice.Diamantini@ensta.fr> wrote:
>
>> Just some remarks/questions:
>> - docbook seems to be the standard for describing documentation data,
>> - dblatex seams to be a currently good supported tools for **easely**
>> provide pdf output from docbook input, and cutomize the output  
>> with .xsl
>> parameters or LaTeX .sty files
>> - dbcontext seams not to be maintained very much
>
> I don't think the code in the module is nowadays a good example for  
> writing
> a module because many low level commands are redefined and it should
> work now out of the box with the current code or better witth MkIV.
>
>> - ConTeXt seams to be able to directly parse xml without external  
>> tools
>>
>> So, what about make ConTeXt directly reading dokbook file and output
>> pdf file? I see the http://www.leverkruid.eu/context/index.html  
>> page from
>> Simon Pepping. But it seems that this project is down.
>
> The module you mention above is the only (complete?) docbook style
> but ConTeXt provides cals table support by default and mapping for the
> basic elements to ConTeXt shouldn't be a problem,
> give us the information what do you need and we write a module.

Thank you very much, you confirm that the "DocbookInContext" from
Simon Pepping is still the way to go.

I've no specific request, I just forward some interest by the web  
community
to converting from docbook to pdf more or less automaticaly.
I fact, my original interest come from the work of the jelix team (a  
MVC php Framwork)
whose documentation was only online (dokuwiki).
Following some user feedback, Jelix team have then generate docbook  
from that wiki
filesss+ and make pdf file thanks to the (not maintained) db2latex tool.
I look after a more uptodate tool (for further customisation) and  
found dblatex
as mention on the (french) forum:

   http://jelix.org/forums/read.php?10,2680,page=4#msg-2872

The result was that the simple command:

    dblatex jelix-manual.xml

produce a "correct" (i.e. readable) jelix-manual.pdf  file without any
customisation (with default table of content, correct verbatim, ...)
which was not the case for db2latex.
But then, any customisation will be a latex style, which is more hacking
than ConTeXt (I think so, but I'm sure you agree ;-)

Nevertheless, the first criterion was that it just works in simple case.
If some magic command (or a simple tutorial) like :

    texexec --docbook jelix-manual.xml

do some equivalent work than the above dblatex, no doubt that the  
ConTeXt
community will increase by more than 100%!


Cordialement,
-- Maurice

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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt

[Hans Hagen]

Maurice Diamantini wrote:

> Thank you very much, you confirm that the "DocbookInContext" from
> Simon Pepping is still the way to go.

beware, afaik that one adapts core macros which is to be avoided

> I've no specific request, I just forward some interest by the web  
> community
> to converting from docbook to pdf more or less automaticaly.
> I fact, my original interest come from the work of the jelix team (a  
> MVC php Framwork)
> whose documentation was only online (dokuwiki).
> Following some user feedback, Jelix team have then generate docbook  
> from that wiki
> filesss+ and make pdf file thanks to the (not maintained) db2latex tool.
> I look after a more uptodate tool (for further customisation) and  
> found dblatex
> as mention on the (french) forum:
> 
>    http://jelix.org/forums/read.php?10,2680,page=4#msg-2872
> 
> The result was that the simple command:
> 
>     dblatex jelix-manual.xml
> 
> produce a "correct" (i.e. readable) jelix-manual.pdf  file without any
> customisation (with default table of content, correct verbatim, ...)
> which was not the case for db2latex.
> But then, any customisation will be a latex style, which is more hacking
> than ConTeXt (I think so, but I'm sure you agree ;-)
> 
> Nevertheless, the first criterion was that it just works in simple case.
> If some magic command (or a simple tutorial) like :
> 
>     texexec --docbook jelix-manual.xml
> 
> do some equivalent work than the above dblatex, no doubt that the  
> ConTeXt
> community will increase by more than 100%!

i can probably cook up a basic docbook converter in a couple of hours 
but since i never run into docbook ...

Hans

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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt

[Wolfgang Schuster]

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Maurice Diamantini
<Maurice.Diamantini@ensta.fr> wrote:
>
> Le 3 juin 08 à 09:43, Wolfgang Schuster a écrit :
>
>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Maurice Diamantini
>> <Maurice.Diamantini@ensta.fr> wrote:
>>
>>> Just some remarks/questions:
>>> - docbook seems to be the standard for describing documentation data,
>>> - dblatex seams to be a currently good supported tools for **easely**
>>> provide pdf output from docbook input, and cutomize the output
>>> with .xsl
>>> parameters or LaTeX .sty files
>>> - dbcontext seams not to be maintained very much
>>
>> I don't think the code in the module is nowadays a good example for
>> writing
>> a module because many low level commands are redefined and it should
>> work now out of the box with the current code or better witth MkIV.
>>
>>> - ConTeXt seams to be able to directly parse xml without external
>>> tools
>>>
>>> So, what about make ConTeXt directly reading dokbook file and output
>>> pdf file? I see the http://www.leverkruid.eu/context/index.html
>>> page from
>>> Simon Pepping. But it seems that this project is down.
>>
>> The module you mention above is the only (complete?) docbook style
>> but ConTeXt provides cals table support by default and mapping for the
>> basic elements to ConTeXt shouldn't be a problem,
>> give us the information what do you need and we write a module.
>
> Thank you very much, you confirm that the "DocbookInContext" from
> Simon Pepping is still the way to go.

No, I meant we should better start from scratch, as Hans told the code
is bad style and you should avoid to redefine core or low level macros.

> I've no specific request, I just forward some interest by the web
> community
> to converting from docbook to pdf more or less automaticaly.
> I fact, my original interest come from the work of the jelix team (a
> MVC php Framwork)
> whose documentation was only online (dokuwiki).
> Following some user feedback, Jelix team have then generate docbook
> from that wiki
> filesss+ and make pdf file thanks to the (not maintained) db2latex tool.
> I look after a more uptodate tool (for further customisation) and
> found dblatex as mention on the (french) forum:
>
>   http://jelix.org/forums/read.php?10,2680,page=4#msg-2872

Looks like spain to me ;-)

> The result was that the simple command:
>
>    dblatex jelix-manual.xml
>
> produce a "correct" (i.e. readable) jelix-manual.pdf  file without any
> customisation (with default table of content, correct verbatim, ...)
> which was not the case for db2latex.
> But then, any customisation will be a latex style, which is more hacking
> than ConTeXt (I think so, but I'm sure you agree ;-)

One of the easiest things with ConTeXt, you could change the header
style with \setupheader[...][..,..=..,..], you need only a extra file with
all your settings.

> Nevertheless, the first criterion was that it just works in simple case.
> If some magic command (or a simple tutorial) like :
>
>    texexec --docbook jelix-manual.xml

better texexec --ctx=docbook jelix-manual.xml

> do some equivalent work than the above dblatex, no doubt that the
> ConTeXt community will increase by more than 100%!
>
> Cordialement,
> -- Maurice

Wolfgang
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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt

[Gour]

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>>>>> "Maurice" == Maurice Diamantini <Maurice.Diamantini@ensta.fr> writes:

Maurice> Just some remarks/questions: - docbook seems to be the standard
Maurice> for describing documentation data, - dblatex seams to be a
Maurice> currently good supported tools for **easely** provide pdf
Maurice> output from docbook input, and cutomize the output with .xsl
Maurice> parameters or LaTeX .sty files - dbcontext seams not to be
Maurice> maintained very much - ConTeXt seams to be able to directly
Maurice> parse xml without external tools

Heh, for me (and I'm not alone), docbook is an overkill for many
documentation tasks - way too big :-/

Maurice> If ConTeXt provide an easy way for translate docbook to pdf
Maurice> file (usable by a non (ie. not yet) ConTeXt user as dblatex
Maurice> is), I think poeple could switch to ConTeXt only for that
Maurice> feature (not everybody have dependency with LaTeX!)  Then the
Maurice> problem would resume to find a good "yourPreferedWikiFormat" to
Maurice> docbook...  (I'v not seen any "t-bocbook" file on
Maurice> http://dl.contextgarden.net/modules)


Take a look at http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/ - it uses 'extended'
markdown syntax and can export to ConTeXt.

If pandoc would not be enough for our documentation needs, I'd probably
look at reST or Asciidoc which do Docbook, but no ConTeXt back-end :-(


Sincerely,
Gour

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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt

[nico]

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 08:48:39 +0200, Maurice Diamantini  
<Maurice.Diamantini@ensta.fr> wrote:

> - dbcontext seams not to be maintained very much

dbcontext is still alive, but asleep because of few users, and mostly  
works in the current state. You can give it a try. You can provide your  
own context layout to customize section titles and layout. It is much  
cleaner and easier than the latex .sty hack. As an example of the powerful  
layout capabilities that ConTeXt provides, you can build a PDF with a  
layout similar to what docbook FO does.

Regards,
BG
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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt

[Maurice Diamantini]

First of all, thank you for your propositions,


About markup format:
--------------------        (---- a markdown header ;-)

Markdown seems an interesting one because:
- it's alive (as many other format)
- it's available in severall scripting languages (ruby, php, python...)
- it seems extensible
- it is (more or less) translatable to docbook (and finaly to xxTeX)
   so allows good quality pdf results

About docbook:
--------------

But one current need is about docbook, because file already exists as a
"dokuwiki hacked" generated file (by a php expert from jelix team) !
So other wiki format is not an option? docbook is request

About the pandoc tools:
-----------------------

Le 3 juin 08 à 16:09, Gour a écrit :
> Take a look at http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/ - it uses 'extended'
> markdown syntax and can export to ConTeXt.

But Gour said alsewhere:
> ...it doesn’t handle tables,...


Interesting, but a first try didn't compile with macport (GHC didn't
compile). But not important: was just for trying...

About dblatex tools
-------------------

It just works for now but need LaTeX custom style for advanced  
customisation
which is much lower level than ConTeXt one, so...


About ConTeXt tools        (THE important information ;-))
===================

Le 3 juin 08 à 15:11, Hans Hagen a écrit :

>> If some magic command (or a simple tutorial) like :
>>     texexec --docbook jelix-manual.xml
>> do some equivalent work than the above dblatex, no doubt that the
>> ConTeXt community will increase by more than 100%!
>
> i can probably cook up a basic docbook converter in a couple of hours
> but since i never run into docbook ...

So instead of the "not in ConTeXt objective" expected response, this is
a great news.

For all (docbook + ConTeXt) tool maintainers like "dbcontext" or  
"DocbookInContext",
it is a great opportunity to help Hans defining a standard module  
which would then
be maintain in the standard ConTeXt distribution.


Other replies about dbcontext tools :
-------------------------------------
Le 3 juin 08 à 09:43, Wolfgang Schuster a écrit :

>> - dbcontext seams not to be maintained very much
>
> I don't think the code in the module is nowadays a good example for  
> writing
> a module because many low level commands are redefined and it should
> work now out of the box with the current code or better witth MkIV.

I thought so, but ...

Le 3 juin 08 à 20:22, nico a écrit :

>> - dbcontext seams not to be maintained very much
>
> dbcontext is still alive, but asleep because of few users, and mostly
> works in the current state. You can give it a try. You can provide  
> your
> own context layout to customize section titles and layout. It is much
> cleaner and easier than the latex .sty hack. As an example of the  
> powerful
> layout capabilities that ConTeXt provides, you can build a PDF with a
> layout similar to what docbook FO does.

So dbcontext resume in a ConTeXt module, it should be part od the  
context
distrib (as a contrib): see above about Hans response.


-- Maurice


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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt

[Gour]

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>>>>> "Maurice" == Maurice Diamantini <Maurice.Diamantini@ensta.fr> writes:

Maurice> About docbook: --------------

Maurice> But one current need is about docbook, because file already
Maurice> exists as a "dokuwiki hacked" generated file (by a php expert
Maurice> from jelix team) !  So other wiki format is not an option?
Maurice> docbook is request

Export Docbook to html and then import (e.g. with pandoc) into
e.g. markdown ;)


Maurice> But Gour said alsewhere:
>> ...it doesn’t handle tables,...

pandoc's extended markdown handles tables.


Which ghc?


Sincerely,
Gour


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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt (Out of Topic)

[Maurice Diamantini]

Le 4 juin 08 à 15:34, Gour a écrit :

> ... about the pandoc "wiki-docbook-*TeX" Haskell translator ...
> Which ghc?

port info  ghc
=>
ghc 6.8.2, Revision 3, lang/ghc (Variants: universal, darwin_6,  
darwin_7, darwin_8_powerpc, darwin_8_i386, darwin_9_powerpc,  
darwin_9_i386, no_opengl)
http://haskell.org/

The Glasgow Haskell Compiler is a robust, fully-featured, optimising
compiler and interactive environment for Haskell 98, GHC compiles
Haskell to either native code or C. etc...

-- Maurice
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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt (Out of Topic)

[Gour]

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>>>>> "Maurice" == Maurice Diamantini <Maurice.Diamantini@ensta.fr> writes:

Maurice> Le 4 juin 08 à 15:34, Gour a écrit :

Hello!

Maurice> port info ghc => ghc 6.8.2, Revision 3, lang/ghc (Variants:
Maurice> universal, darwin_6, darwin_7, darwin_8_powerpc, darwin_8_i386,
Maurice> darwin_9_powerpc, darwin_9_i386, no_opengl) http://haskell.org/

Here is the reply from pandoc main developer:

"This problem was introduced when MacPorts updated to the most recent
version of the haddock documentation tool.  I submitted a patch to
MacPorts a long time ago, but nobody has committed it to the repository.
(The committer who looked at the patch has had trouble building
GHC 6.8.2 on his Mac, so he can't test the pandoc patch.)

There's a description of a workaround here:
http://groups.google.com/group/pandoc-discuss/browse_thread/thread/c9ecef59465c12c6"


Sincerely,
Gour


-- 

Gour  | Zagreb, Croatia  | GPG key: C6E7162D
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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt (Out of Topic)

[Gour]

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>>>>> "Maurice" == Maurice Diamantini <Maurice.Diamantini@ensta.fr> writes:

Hi!

Excuse me for the noise...

Maurice> port info ghc => ghc 6.8.2, Revision 3, lang/ghc (Variants:
Maurice> universal, darwin_6, darwin_7, darwin_8_powerpc, darwin_8_i386,
Maurice> darwin_9_powerpc, darwin_9_i386, no_opengl) http://haskell.org/

but just received another message from pandoc dev:

"Thanks!  As luck would have it, the patch was committed to macports
just after your message.  So the workaround should no longer be
necessary -- after a 'port sync', pandoc should again be installable
using macports."

Pls. try it!


Sincerely,
Gour


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Gour  | Zagreb, Croatia  | GPG key: C6E7162D
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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt (Out of Topic)

[Maurice Diamantini]

Le 4 juin 08 à 21:34, Gour a écrit :

> Here is the reply from pandoc main developer:
>
> ...
> There's a description of a workaround here:
> http://groups.google.com/group/pandoc-discuss/browse_thread/thread/c9ecef59465c12c6 
> "
> ...

Then in the next message:

> ... after a 'port sync', pandoc should again be installable
> using macports." ...

Thank you very much, I'll try it;
(other message not related to ConTeXt could now be send off-list please)
-- Maurice
  
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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt (Out of Topic)

[luigi scarso]

> (other message not related to ConTeXt could now be send off-list please)
true.
My problems is
"What is out of topic  in this mailing list ? "
:)


-- 
luigi
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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt (Out of Topic)

[Maurice Diamantini]

Le 5 juin 08 à 09:15, luigi scarso a écrit :

>> (other message not related to ConTeXt could now be send off-list  
>> please)
> true.
> My problems is:   "What is out of topic  in this mailing list ? "  :)

Because the problem was about installing GHC (an Haskell compiler) on  
osX
with macports tool.
Haskel language is requested as a dependancy for Pandoc.
Pandoc "could" be use has an intermediate tool for converting
some docbook to ConTeXt...
... so Very many link, before ConTeXt topic...
... and very numerous dependancy for an intermediate tools such pandoc
... which seems more difficult to install than ConTeXt itself
... ConTeXt, which could probably do the xml work by itself :-)

So problem about install pandoc on macos could be followup to
http://groups.google.com/group/pandoc-discuss/browse_thread/thread/d16f2ba3198525be
(seems not to solved even the last "sudo port sync")

Cordialement
-- Maurice

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Re: markup format ---> ConTeXt (Out of Topic)

[luigi scarso]

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 7:57 AM, Maurice Diamantini
<Maurice.Diamantini@ensta.fr> wrote:
>
> Le 5 juin 08 à 09:15, luigi scarso a écrit :
>
>>> (other message not related to ConTeXt could now be send off-list please)
>>
>> true.
>> My problems is:   "What is out of topic  in this mailing list ? "  :)
>

> Because the problem was about installing GHC (an Haskell compiler) on osX
> with macports tool.
> Haskel language is requested as a dependancy for Pandoc.
no no, there was a misunderstand.
What I mean is : it' very hard to define that a subject if off topic
in this mailing list.
For example, I don't consider this an out-of-topic subject.


-- 
luigi
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