ConTeXt Minimals & NixoS

ConTeXt Minimals & NixoS

[Gour]

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Hello!

Soon I plan to move to NixOS (http://nixos.org/) distro which uses
purely functional package manager (Nix) and does not allow 'destructive'
updates which happen with e.g. ConTeXt Minimals and rsync.

I'd like to use Luatex and due to its rapid development I am interested
to know whether it would be feasible to do rsync locally and then
provide Minimals 'snapshot' ? (the question is how to deploy luatex via
Minimals'distro'?)

Anything what can be done to help with Minimals?


Sincerely,
Gour

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Re: ConTeXt Minimals & NixoS

[Taco Hoekwater]

Gour wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> Soon I plan to move to NixOS (http://nixos.org/) distro which uses
> purely functional package manager (Nix) and does not allow 'destructive'
> updates which happen with e.g. ConTeXt Minimals and rsync.

If it has .dev or .rpm (or an import function thereof) you could
use Norberts packages instead of the 'upstream' releases?

Best wishes,
Taco
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Re: ConTeXt Minimals & NixoS

[Gour]

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>>>>> "Taco" == Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> writes:

Taco> If it has .dev or .rpm (or an import function thereof) you could
Taco> use Norberts packages instead of the 'upstream' releases?

No it uses source deployment, although it's possible to use binaries as
well.

NixOS puts all the build packages in separate folder and does not use
standard /usr /lib /lib etc. folders, but one is assured that build deps
are always correct, as well as ability to e.g. have multiple versions of
some libs, atomic updates, easy to rollback to some previous
'generation'...see
http://nixos.org/releases/nix/nix-0.11/manual/#sec-profiles

Sincerely,
Gour



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Re: ConTeXt Minimals & NixoS

[Taco Hoekwater]

Gour wrote:
>>>>>> "Taco" == Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> writes:
> 
> Taco> If it has .dev or .rpm (or an import function thereof) you could
> Taco> use Norberts packages instead of the 'upstream' releases?
> 
> No it uses source deployment, although it's possible to use binaries as
> well.
> 
> NixOS puts all the build packages in separate folder and does not use
> standard /usr /lib /lib etc. folders, but one is assured that build deps
> are always correct, as well as ability to e.g. have multiple versions of
> some libs, atomic updates, easy to rollback to some previous
> 'generation'...see
> http://nixos.org/releases/nix/nix-0.11/manual/#sec-profiles

It sounds intriguing, but I have no time to look into it.

Best wishes,
Taco
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Re: ConTeXt Minimals & NixoS

[Gour]

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>>>>> "Taco" == Taco Hoekwater <taco@elvenkind.com> writes:

Taco> It sounds intriguing, but I have no time to look into it.

Yes, it is, but it's better for you to wait a bit and do luatex. NixOS
will hopefully become more user-friendly with the time.

Let me help 'em to have proper luatex support...


Sincerely,
Gour


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Re: ConTeXt Minimals & NixoS

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Gour wrote:
> Hello!
>
>  Soon I plan to move to NixOS (http://nixos.org/) distro which uses
>  purely functional package manager (Nix) and does not allow 'destructive'
>  updates which happen with e.g. ConTeXt Minimals and rsync.
>
>  I'd like to use Luatex and due to its rapid development I am interested
>  to know whether it would be feasible to do rsync locally and then
>  provide Minimals 'snapshot' ? (the question is how to deploy luatex via
>  Minimals'distro'?)

I can put any files on the server and can reshuffle them if needed,
but you need to send me some kind of specifications what exactly you
need. I can also put a nixos package to the garden, but you need to
prepare it (and possibly provide the proper binaries). Try to shuffle
the files on your local machine and play with it to see if it works.

Would you like to provide sources or binaries?

>  Anything what can be done to help with Minimals?

Man pages? Improve mtx-update.lua? Some other things as well, I'll try
to move everything to the new server in some reasonable time.

Mojca
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Re: ConTeXt Minimals & NixoS

[Gour]

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>>>>> "Mojca" == Mojca Miklavec <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> writes:

Mojca> I can put any files on the server and can reshuffle them if
Mojca> needed, but you need to send me some kind of specifications what
Mojca> exactly you need. 

Well, I'm mostly interested if there is a plan to make some kind of
'release' for Minimals, or periodically to provide a kind of 'stable
snapshot' 'cause rsync-update in not in 'sync' with NiXOS philosophy?

Mojca> I can also put a nixos package to the garden, but you need to
Mojca> prepare it (and possibly provide the proper binaries). Try to
Mojca> shuffle the files on your local machine and play with it to see
Mojca> if it works.

Unfortunately, due to Murphy's law, the main server (no mirrors yet) is
still down from the last week (it hit right before the holidays in
Netherlands), so I'm waiting for a server to come back online (probably
tomorrow).

Then I can install NiXOS and play with Minimals.

Mojca> Would you like to provide sources or binaries?

I'd like to provide both - source expression can go into NiXOS's svn
trunk, while it would be nice to have binaries available at
contextgarden.

Mojca> Man pages? Improve mtx-update.lua? Some other things as well,
Mojca> I'll try to move everything to the new server in some reasonable
Mojca> time.

Thank you for reply. Let me move my laptop to NixOS first, then I plan
to help having Minimals available for it.


Sincerely,
Gour


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Re: ConTeXt Minimals & NixoS

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 5/5/08, Gour wrote:
> >>>>> "Mojca" == Mojca Miklavec writes:
>
> Mojca> I can put any files on the server and can reshuffle them if
> Mojca> needed, but you need to send me some kind of specifications what
> Mojca> exactly you need.
>
> Well, I'm mostly interested if there is a plan to make some kind of
> 'release' for Minimals, or periodically to provide a kind of 'stable
> snapshot' 'cause rsync-update in not in 'sync' with NiXOS philosophy?

I got exactly the same question asked yesterday (concerning Mac installer).

I don't know anyone who would be volunteering to do torture tests,
except that Sanjoy did some basic work by collecing test files, but
they do not run automatically, and a more extensive system is needed.

Te main idea about the minimals was to reduce web traffic by providing
a quick way to update o the latest version o everything. In the case
of a proper package one till needs to download 100 MB each time and
has no option to choose what to install. But that's fine by me if
people want to use the files that way. However, torture tests are
waiting for volunteers. It's not a problem to provide stable snapshot,
but to decide which one is stable.

Mojca
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Re: ConTeXt Minimals & NixoS

[Gour]

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>>>>> "Mojca" == Mojca Miklavec <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> writes:


Mojca> I got exactly the same question asked yesterday (concerning Mac
Mojca> installer).

Interesting...something is in the ether ;)

Mojca> I don't know anyone who would be volunteering to do torture
Mojca> tests, except that Sanjoy did some basic work by collecing test
Mojca> files, but they do not run automatically, and a more extensive
Mojca> system is needed.

In ~two weeks I'll finish with some other assignments and then there
will be more time for testing as well.

Mojca> Te main idea about the minimals was to reduce web traffic by
Mojca> providing a quick way to update o the latest version o
Mojca> everything. In the case of a proper package one till needs to
Mojca> download 100 MB each time and has no option to choose what to
Mojca> install. But that's fine by me if people want to use the files
Mojca> that way. 

I see that Minimals offer great advantage for those not wanting to taint
their texlive installations as well as those using e.g. ConTeXt/luaTeX
only.

Mojca> However, torture tests are waiting for volunteers. It's not a
Mojca> problem to provide stable snapshot, but to decide which one is
Mojca> stable.

It does not matter. If the newer 'stable' snapshot is broken, it's easy
(in NixOS) to just rollback ;)

Thank you for your work on Minimals. I'll join to help...


Sincerely,
Gour


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