Architecture Sketch

Architecture Sketch

[Suno Ano]

hi folks,
I am new to ConTeXt. I had been a TeXinfo, Muse and LaTeX boy so far.
Now that I am into ConTeXt for the 2nd day it came to my attention that
there is for eample MkIV, luatex etc.

How do they fit together? Is there some sort of architecure chart
somewhere so newbies can get a hold within a few seconds?

Secondly, now that it seems MkIV is the new star will all my ConTeXt
knowledge be obsolete once luatex is going to be used? (Maybe I am just
making a fool out of myself even asking this but then I am totally new
to this whole subject so ...)

What I want is to write documents (papers, manual, theses, etc.) with
ConTeXt. So, is the time I am going to invest into learning and toying
around with ConTeXt a secure investment of my time or not i.e. ConTeXt
will be phased out or something (again, asking this might actually make
me look goofy :-)

tia for enlightening me!

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Re: Architecture Sketch

[luigi scarso]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 3:24 PM, Suno Ano <suno.ano@googlemail.com> wrote:
> hi folks,
>  How do they fit together? Is there some sort of architecure chart
>  somewhere so newbies can get a hold within a few seconds?
luatex <==> tex
context <==> latex
ok ?
>
>  Secondly, now that it seems MkIV is the new star will all my ConTeXt
>  knowledge be obsolete once luatex is going to be used? (Maybe I am just
>  making a fool out of myself even asking this but then I am totally new
>  to this whole subject so ...)
a bit here and there, but not all
>
>  What I want is to write documents (papers, manual, theses, etc.) with
>  ConTeXt.
ok, this is the right mailling list
>So, is the time I am going to invest into learning and toying
>  around with ConTeXt a secure investment of my time or not i.e. ConTeXt
>  will be phased out or something (again, asking this might actually make
>  me look goofy :-)
see wiki ,
mailling list,
pragma site,
source code.
Always make short examples of your problem .
And use linux.

-- 
luigi
it's new .
it's powerful .
it's luatex .
http://www.luatex.org
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Re: Architecture Sketch

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:38:20 -0600, luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com>  
wrote:

> And use linux.

Well Hans, the lead developer uses windows ;-) and from the messages I see  
on this list the linux people tend to run into more installation/format  
problems :-D

Best wishes
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

--
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Re: Architecture Sketch

[John Devereux]

"Idris Samawi Hamid" <ishamid@colostate.edu> writes:

> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:38:20 -0600, luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> And use linux.
>
> Well Hans, the lead developer uses windows ;-) and from the messages I see  
> on this list the linux people tend to run into more installation/format  
> problems :-D

And I suspect these two facts are related.. :)

Nevertheless, I have used both and find the linux environment better
in general. Everything is "there" and my distribution (debian) takes
care of things. Sometimes I am impatient and want to "experiment" with
the latest and greatest, bypassing the distributions packaging
system. Then I get into trouble.

-- 

John Devereux
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Re: Architecture Sketch

[luigi scarso]

>  And I suspect these two facts are related.. :)
no, taco is on linux (well, i hope..)
>
>  Nevertheless, I have used both and find the linux environment better
>  in general. Everything is "there" and my distribution (debian) takes
>  care of things. Sometimes I am impatient and want to "experiment" with
>  the latest and greatest, bypassing the distributions packaging
>  system. Then I get into trouble.
indeed , not me.
Always follow carefully  instructions.


-- 
luigi
it's new .
it's powerful .
it's luatex .
http://www.luatex.org
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Re: Architecture Sketch

[Hans Hagen]

John Devereux wrote:
> "Idris Samawi Hamid" <ishamid@colostate.edu> writes:
> 
>> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:38:20 -0600, luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> And use linux.
>> Well Hans, the lead developer uses windows ;-) and from the messages I see  
>> on this list the linux people tend to run into more installation/format  
>> problems :-D
> 
> And I suspect these two facts are related.. :)

well, luatex/mkiv runs happily on our linux servers; my development 
machine runs vista, and taco's runs linux and we happily generatet 
multiple new formats per day ... the main ingredients for a working set 
up are: TEXMF, TEXMFCNF and sometimes TEXMFCACHE (keep in mind that 
traditional tex distribiutions can have hard coded paths and assumptions)

Hans

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Re: Architecture Sketch

[Jean Magnan de Bornier]

Le 15 avril à 15:24:19 Suno Ano <suno.ano@googlemail.com> écrit notamment:

| hi folks,
| I am new to ConTeXt. I had been a TeXinfo, Muse ...

Hi,

You can still be a Muse boy with context:
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_and_emacs-muse

(I have to edit a bit this page but it is quite enough for a muse user to
see what can be done)

-- 
Jean
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Re: Architecture Sketch

[John Devereux]

Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes:

> John Devereux wrote:
>> "Idris Samawi Hamid" <ishamid@colostate.edu> writes:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:38:20 -0600, luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com>  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And use linux.
>>> Well Hans, the lead developer uses windows ;-) and from the messages I see  
>>> on this list the linux people tend to run into more installation/format  
>>> problems :-D
>> 
>> And I suspect these two facts are related.. :)
>
> well, luatex/mkiv runs happily on our linux servers; my development 
> machine runs vista, and taco's runs linux and we happily generatet 
> multiple new formats per day ...

I am only teasing.

I love context, and have been using it for years now on linux. But I
only get to use it intermittently, and only rarely get involved with
the installation itself...

> the main ingredients for a working set 
> up are: TEXMF, TEXMFCNF and sometimes TEXMFCACHE (keep in mind that 
> traditional tex distribiutions can have hard coded paths and assumptions)

...so I forget the mechanics of how tex is configured and how it finds
everything.

Thanks,

-- 

John Devereux
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Re: Architecture Sketch

[Suno Ano]

 >| On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:38:20 +0200,
 >| luigi scarso
 >| who can be reached at: luigi.scarso@gmail.com
 >| (whose comments are cited below with " luigi> "),
 >| had this to say in article <fe8d59da0804150738j2384dcc6u608c66ca001a3fa3@mail.gmail.com>
 >| in newsgroups gmane.comp.tex.context
 >| concerning the subject of Re: Architecture Sketch
 >| (see <87abjvxncs.fsf@googlemail.com> for more details)

 >> hi folks, How do they fit together? Is there some sort of
 >> architecure chart somewhere so newbies can get a hold within a few
 >> seconds? Luatex <==> tex context <==> latex
 luigi> ok ?
nope, I do not get it especially for the latex part. What about this:


	      +--------------------------+
	      | ConTeXt, used for        |
	      | creating the source      |
	      | files to luatex          |
	      +--------------------------+
			   ^
			   |
			   |
		       	   |
			   |
			   |
	      +--------------------------+
	      | luatex, a bunch of       |
	      |	libraries and whatnot    |
	      |	which is going to replace|
	      | pdfTeX       	         |
	      |               	         |
	      +--------------------------+

So where do LaTeX and MkIV fit into this? 


 >> Secondly, now that it seems MkIV is the new star will all my ConTeXt
 >> knowledge be obsolete once luatex is going to be used? (Maybe I am
 >> just making a fool out of myself even asking this but then I am
 >> totally new to this whole subject so ...)
 luigi> A bit here and there, but not all

Which tells me exactly nothing :-) Actually to rephrase what I meant and
to what it boils down:

,----[ Question ]
| What will happen to folks like me who just need/want to write great
| documents using ConTeXt?
`----

If someone could shed some light onto this, I would be very thankful ...

For the rest
 - I took a look at the wiki, ml etc. but those could not answer my
   question -- usually I try another approach after 2 hours searching
   around 
 - yes, I am with Linux (DebianGNU/Linux)
 - GNU Emacs
 - my adorable cat :-)
 - a whole pile of ConTeXt manuals to read

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Re: Architecture Sketch

[Suno Ano]

 >| On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:09:09 +0200,
 >| Jean Magnan de Bornier
 >| who can be reached at: jm.bornier@free.fr
 >| (whose comments are cited below with " Jean> "),
 >| had this to say in article <874pa3aymy.fsf@bornier.net>
 >| in newsgroups gmane.comp.tex.context
 >| concerning the subject of Re: Architecture Sketch
 >| (see <87abjvxncs.fsf@googlemail.com> for more details)

 Jean> You can still be a Muse boy with context:
 Jean> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_and_emacs-muse

Of course I will remain a Muse fanboy as well. Muse for my website,
texinfo for all FLOSS (Free/Libre Open Source Software) manuals etc. and
ConTeXt for a book and tech papers I am going to write ...

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Re: Architecture Sketch

[Hans Hagen]

Suno Ano wrote:
>  >| On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:38:20 +0200,
>  >| luigi scarso
>  >| who can be reached at: luigi.scarso@gmail.com
>  >| (whose comments are cited below with " luigi> "),
>  >| had this to say in article <fe8d59da0804150738j2384dcc6u608c66ca001a3fa3@mail.gmail.com>
>  >| in newsgroups gmane.comp.tex.context
>  >| concerning the subject of Re: Architecture Sketch
>  >| (see <87abjvxncs.fsf@googlemail.com> for more details)
> 
>  >> hi folks, How do they fit together? Is there some sort of
>  >> architecure chart somewhere so newbies can get a hold within a few
>  >> seconds? Luatex <==> tex context <==> latex
>  luigi> ok ?
> nope, I do not get it especially for the latex part. What about this:
> 
> 
> 	      +--------------------------+
> 	      | ConTeXt, used for        |
> 	      | creating the source      |
> 	      | files to luatex          |
> 	      +--------------------------+
> 			   ^
> 			   |
> 			   |
> 		       	   |
> 			   |
> 			   |
> 	      +--------------------------+
> 	      | luatex, a bunch of       |
> 	      |	libraries and whatnot    |
> 	      |	which is going to replace|
> 	      | pdfTeX       	         |
> 	      |               	         |
> 	      +--------------------------+
> 
> So where do LaTeX and MkIV fit into this? 

pdftex, xetex, luatex: engines

context mkii: pdftex/xetex
context mkiv: luatex

> Which tells me exactly nothing :-) Actually to rephrase what I meant and
> to what it boils down:

no need to discard old knowledge ... there will be new mkiv-only 
features, some hacks will go away

> ,----[ Question ]
> | What will happen to folks like me who just need/want to write great
> | documents using ConTeXt?
> `----
> 
> If someone could shed some light onto this, I would be very thankful ...

just see mkiv as a next version; the reason for calling it mkiv is that 
context never had fundamental versions, like latex (original, 2e, 3)

in order to prevent users asking "hey, there will be latex 3, when will 
there be acontext 3" i skipped the 3 and went for the 4 ...

... the mark part was inspired by deep purple using mk as tag for each 
new combination (which got my attention when i found out that steve 
morse was part of mk7 onwards, and the first code i wrote was with steve 
morse cd's in loop mode ...

... so now everyone knows why context mkiv is called mkiv; and yes, i 
only have DP mkvii/mkviii cd's/dvd's; and i'm not that no sure if there 
will be a context mkvii -)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Architecture Sketch

[luigi scarso]

>  in order to prevent users asking "hey, there will be latex 3, when will
>  there be acontext 3" i skipped the 3 and went for the 4 ...
>
>  ... the mark part was inspired by deep purple using mk as tag for each
>  new combination (which got my attention when i found out that steve
>  morse was part of mk7 onwards, and the first code i wrote was with steve
>  morse cd's in loop mode ...
>
>  ... so now everyone knows why context mkiv is called mkiv; and yes, i
>  only have DP mkvii/mkviii cd's/dvd's; and i'm not that no sure if there
>  will be a context mkvii -)
>
to wikify .



-- 
luigi
it's new .
it's powerful .
it's luatex .
http://www.luatex.org
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Re: Architecture Sketch

[Olivier Guéry]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:28 PM, luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com> wrote:
> >  in order to prevent users asking "hey, there will be latex 3, when will
>  >  there be acontext 3" i skipped the 3 and went for the 4 ...
>  >
>  >  ... the mark part was inspired by deep purple using mk as tag for each
>  >  new combination (which got my attention when i found out that steve
>  >  morse was part of mk7 onwards, and the first code i wrote was with steve
>  >  morse cd's in loop mode ...
>  >
>  >  ... so now everyone knows why context mkiv is called mkiv; and yes, i
>  >  only have DP mkvii/mkviii cd's/dvd's; and i'm not that no sure if there
>  >  will be a context mkvii -)
>  >
>  to wikify .

Deep Purple… this Deep Purple : http://youtube.com/watch?v=8sEYIouqEdU ;o) ?
To wikify of course. Thank's to DP for being with you all this hours
of great code.

Olivier.

-- 
[Message tapé sur un clavier Bépo : http://www.clavier-dvorak.org ]
Olivier nemolivier@gmail.com http://nemolivier.blogspot.com
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Re: Architecture Sketch

[luigi scarso]

>
>  ,----[ Question ]
>  | What will happen to folks like me who just need/want to write great
>  | documents using ConTeXt?
>  `----
it depends:
i get fat, for example.

>   - yes, I am with Linux (DebianGNU/Linux)
hey , like me!
>   - GNU Emacs
also me
>   - my adorable cat :-)
two little daughter (and wife, of course)
>   - a whole pile of ConTeXt manuals to read
me again !

75% !



-- 
luigi
it's new .
it's powerful .
it's luatex .
http://www.luatex.org
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Re: Architecture Sketch

[Hans Hagen]

Olivier Guéry wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:28 PM, luigi scarso <luigi.scarso@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  in order to prevent users asking "hey, there will be latex 3, when will
>>  >  there be acontext 3" i skipped the 3 and went for the 4 ...
>>  >
>>  >  ... the mark part was inspired by deep purple using mk as tag for each
>>  >  new combination (which got my attention when i found out that steve
>>  >  morse was part of mk7 onwards, and the first code i wrote was with steve
>>  >  morse cd's in loop mode ...
>>  >
>>  >  ... so now everyone knows why context mkiv is called mkiv; and yes, i
>>  >  only have DP mkvii/mkviii cd's/dvd's; and i'm not that no sure if there
>>  >  will be a context mkvii -)
>>  >
>>  to wikify .
> 
> Deep Purple… this Deep Purple : http://youtube.com/watch?v=8sEYIouqEdU ;o) ?
> To wikify of course. Thank's to DP for being with you all this hours
> of great code.

haha, i didn't know that one -)


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
      tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Architecture Sketch

[Suno Ano]

 >| On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:18:43 +0200,
 >| Hans Hagen
 >| who can be reached at: pragma@wxs.nl
 >| (whose comments are cited below with " Hans> "),
 >| had this to say in article <4804E373.4070603@wxs.nl>
 >| in newsgroups gmane.comp.tex.context
 >| concerning the subject of Re: Architecture Sketch
 >| (see <87abjvxncs.fsf@googlemail.com> <fe8d59da0804150738j2384dcc6u608c66ca001a3fa3@mail.gmail.com> <87tzi3rrns.fsf@googlemail.com> for more details)

 Hans> Just see mkiv as a next version
Thanks, that answers my question.

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Re: Architecture Sketch

[Martin Schröder]

2008/4/15, Suno Ano <suno.ano@googlemail.com>:
>  So where do LaTeX and MkIV fit into this?

For LaTeX ask the LaTeX team. Maybe they have realized that luatex
exists, although I doubt it. :-)

Best
   Martin (SCNR)
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Re: Architecture Sketch

[Andrea Valle]

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>> and yes, i
>>  only have DP mkvii/mkviii cd's/dvd's;

Oh, Hans, this is a big issue...
I thought that while writing ConTeXt you (the Speed King of TeX,  
indeed) had thought about the motto following -exactly- "Speed King":
"just a few roots, replanted".

:)

Best

-a-



--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> andrea.valle@unito.it
--------------------------------------------------


"
Think of it as seasoning
. noise [salt] is boring
. F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring
. F(noise, blah) can be really tasty
"
(Ken Perlin on noise)






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Re: Architecture Sketch

[Hans Hagen]

Andrea Valle wrote:
>>> and yes, i
>>>  only have DP mkvii/mkviii cd's/dvd's;
> 
> Oh, Hans, this is a big issue...
> I thought that while writing ConTeXt you (the Speed King of TeX, indeed) 
> had thought about the motto following -exactly- "Speed King":
> "just a few roots, replanted".

well, often when writing tex code i feel more Like a Blind Man -)

anyhow, at some point i did realize that mkiv would have some Major 
Impact - two nice cd's -

(i wonder if users can deduce from the code what i was listening too, 
which is quite a broad spectrum ... for instance Canto Ostinato may lead 
to nice metapost graphics and i'm sure that my best code boils up while 
listening to Laughing Stock)

Hans



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Re: Architecture Sketch

[Arthur Reutenauer]

> well, luatex/mkiv runs happily on our linux servers; my development 
> machine runs vista, and taco's runs linux and we happily generatet 
> multiple new formats per day ...

  ... and Mark IV has been successfully run on Sparc Solaris and Sparc
Linux as well ;-)

	Arthur
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