From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/11390 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Patrick Gundlach Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Fonts again in ConTeXt Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:54:58 +0100 Organization: privat Sender: ntg-context-admin@ntg.nl Message-ID: <87vfynve71.fsf@gundla.ch> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20030312160932.024c08e8@server-1> <03031214263404.11186@mondriaan> <03031214263404.11186@mondriaan> <5.1.0.14.1.20030312160932.024c08e8@server-1> <87fzps615f.fsf@gundla.ch> <5.1.0.14.1.20030312212058.024b3a00@server-1> Reply-To: ntg-context@ntg.nl NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1047545832 20916 80.91.224.249 (13 Mar 2003 08:57:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 08:57:12 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: ntg-context-admin@ntg.nl Thu Mar 13 09:57:08 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from ref.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.13] helo=ref.ntg.nl) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18tOWS-0005Qj-00 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:57:08 +0100 Original-Received: from ref.ntg.nl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ref.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1621210B1B; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:57:51 +0100 (MET) Original-Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by ref.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAE6610AE7 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:55:43 +0100 (MET) Original-Received: from [212.227.126.160] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18tOV5-0007Aq-00 for ntg-context@ntg.nl; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:55:43 +0100 Original-Received: from [129.217.137.125] (helo=levana) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18tOV4-0005Ph-00 for ntg-context@ntg.nl; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:55:43 +0100 Original-Received: from pg by levana with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18tOUM-0000DF-00 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:54:58 +0100 Original-To: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Lieblings-Musik: a.c. In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030312212058.024b3a00@server-1> (Hans Hagen's message of "Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:26:44 +0100") Original-Lines: 81 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090008 (Oort Gnus v0.08) Emacs/21.3.50 (i586-pc-linux-gnu) Errors-To: ntg-context-admin@ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:11390 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tex.context:11390 Hans Hagen writes: Hello Hans and others, >>1) TeX macro package (aka LaTeX ;-) asks for "Adobe Helvetica", it >> gets the font metrics from "phv....tfm". Then, in the map files >> the users decides whether to use the original adobe fonts or the >> substitues. > > Right, and that is why so many docs look bad! Those metrics > differ. But they would not look better if you use NimbusSans! (Germandbls) > The same for times: adobe times metrics even differ/change over time > (nelson beebe has done some excellent research on this; see pdftex > mail archives); Does anybody have a pointer to this? I haven't found it. > this is the main reason why i stick to urw times and palatino > etc. Also, they go well with math times (tx) and math palatino (px). > >>2) TeX macro package (aka ConTeXt ;-) asks for "URW Nimbus Sans" >> a) on TeXlive (and perhaps any other I don't kown of) it gets the >> metrics from "uhv....tfm". Then, in the map files the user has >> no choice; the dvi/pdf driver should take Nimbus Sans. > > well, context users should have gs on their system anyway since it's a > great tool for previewing (in th eprocess of stylewriting). It is not a matter of having gs installed or not. Since TeX is just looking for the tfm files, you need them. But is there any TeX System with the tfm file for the urw variants besides TeXlive? TeTeX doesn't have 'em and teTeX is widely distributed. The pfb files from urw are shipped with TeXlive and TeTeX. >> b) on teTeX (+...?) with some special mappings it gets the >> "phv....tfm" metrics. Then see above at 1). >> >>I think it is wrong behaviour to explicitly ask for the substitution >>and leave the user no choice about which variant (adobe, urw) to use. > > hm, but you can of course make a typescript: berry-adobe Then the mapping (internally) would be Helvetica -> uhv... -> phv I think that this is a useable workaround. >> > concerning the broken german ss: the polish font gurus (you'll meet >> > them at the dante meeting) have made extended versions of those urw >> > fonts, so maybe that will help. [the normal urw also don't have >> > ogoneked glyphs] >> >>Well, concerning the ss: Just install the Adobe Helvetica (free) and >>that's it (except for patching ConTeXt ;-) > > well, as far as i know adobe stopped adding the famou s15 to > distributions; Right. There are old acroread versions on the adobe site that still have them. > also, beware: acrobat will replace helvetica etc by the system > specific preference, which of course has different metrics (arial on > windows), and again, is one reason why files start looking real > ugly. But this might still be better then the Nimbus Sans? > so, i play safe, but as said, if you provide additional typescripts ... OK. I'll do so. I guess I name it adobekb. Patrick