From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/90251 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Keith J. Schultz" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Epub format Was: Re: Context to epub: itemize Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:24:16 +0100 Message-ID: <8BA925AF-1101-4DA2-84FC-D4747E47C5AB@web.de> References: <26301630-C723-4870-A56D-345219EB4E99@axelkielhorn.de> <54E23D2D.7050306@wxs.nl> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2070.6\)) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1489125752==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1424157912 30451 80.91.229.3 (17 Feb 2015 07:25:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 07:25:12 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Tue Feb 17 08:24:57 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YNcWe-0007ZJ-Pf for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:24:56 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0563B10234 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:24:56 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id p376SiHLpMgT for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:24:55 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4486310236 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:24:28 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C6D0101FD for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:24:24 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id dww2UcTiWLVf for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:24:23 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from filter3-utr.mf.surf.net (filter3-utr.mf.surf.net [195.169.124.154]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9946E101FC for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:24:18 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mout.web.de (mout.web.de [212.227.17.12]) by filter3-utr.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id t1H7OHXi023674 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:24:17 +0100 Original-Received: from [10.0.0.106] ([84.170.115.68]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb101) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lc8Ph-1Xgp2T352j-00jaoe for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:24:16 +0100 In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2070.6) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:mPPdrb1AgDxZ4OCfWvcnaH5ItR+US56zgAcxy1I2V+h0YjoNzK3 hhd17b0voh+t3JaL6ZABJ6aY62UXoCMOCTQJEOoM4GbP7hP8VWOdOKgpGpAe9KkaBaW6YKa 2OE1K29SXzlzcmXnGFqt6sWckxuuxL7Tc7FM3I6n6akXd1p+3EcRjAjU+ajTz+jz1rP3AMp m/FqvIK6xG7/PVp3/5sFw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: ntg-context@ntg.nl, base:default, @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=212.227.17.12; country=DE; latitude=51.0000; longitude=9.0000; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=51.0000,9.0000&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 08NRjohPx - 52f8715f982d - 20150217 (trained as not-spam) Received-SPF: pass (filter3-utr.mf.surf.net: domain of keithjschultz@web.de designates 212.227.17.12 as permitted sender) receiver=filter3-utr.mf.surf.net; client-ip=212.227.17.12; envelope-from=; helo=mout.web.de; identity=mailfrom X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 195.169.124.154 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: "ntg-context" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:90251 Archived-At: --===============1489125752== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E48E337A-C9DB-4F8D-8E5B-3BA166C6644D" --Apple-Mail=_E48E337A-C9DB-4F8D-8E5B-3BA166C6644D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Axel, All, You have mentioned that most current ebook readers can not display = MathML. Well, the problem lies in the epub guidelines for the readers. The problem is even worse. many readers do not even implement the full = HTML5 standard. though that is the standard used in the latest epub stadnard. The fact is to be considered epub readers the do not have to, it is a = problem of the epub reader definition. The problem is what should ConTeXt output? Should it output code that implements according to the full epub = standard=20 OR JUST=20 what is handled by most epub readers! IMHO : ConTeXt should not output XHMTL for epub, but HMTL5. Yes, yes, I know XHMTL is part of HMTL5. Another question for me is if ConTeXt should also output code for the iBooks epub format, (Basicaly epub, but some extras). There are thing you can do in/with ConTeXt that would work with iBooks that do not in =E2=80=9Eordinary=E2=80=9C epub books. Then, there is the Kindle format one might want to consider! Another, question which needs investigation is if the ConTeXt output for = epub, also, implementing the fallbacks for missing features which is required? Just some added thoughts. Basically, you can only expect ConTeXts epub output to be a starting = point that then has to be tweak. regards Keith. > Am 17.02.2015 um 07:11 schrieb Axel Kielhorn : >=20 > [...] > Yes I know. > Let me rephrase the question: >=20 > Should the symbols used in epub be identical to those used in the pdf = or should the css determine the look of the symbols? > Especially when one considers that most current ebook readers can't = display MathML. >=20 > Even if I substitute the Symbols: >=20 > \definesymbol[uni1][=E2=80=A2] > \definesymbol[uni2][=E2=80=93] > \definesymbol[uni3][*] > \definesymbol[uni4][=C2=B7] >=20 > \setupitemgroup [itemize] [1] [symbol=3Duni1] > \setupitemgroup [itemize] [2] [symbol=3Duni2] > \setupitemgroup [itemize] [3] [symbol=3Duni3] > \setupitemgroup [itemize] [4] [symbol=3Duni4] >=20 > I get a result that neither ADE nor Calibre interprets as a list. > (Wrapping it in
doesn't help.)=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_E48E337A-C9DB-4F8D-8E5B-3BA166C6644D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Axel, All,

You have mentioned that most current ebook readers can not = display MathML.

Well, the problem lies in the epub guidelines for the = readers.

The = problem is even worse. many readers do not even implement the full = HTML5
standard. though that is the standard used in = the latest epub stadnard.
The fact is to be = considered epub readers the do not have to, it is a problem
of the epub reader definition.

The problem is what should ConTeXt = output?
Should it output code that implements = according to the full epub standard 
OR = JUST 
what is handled by most epub = readers!

IMHO = : ConTeXt should not output XHMTL for epub, but HMTL5.
Yes, yes, I know XHMTL is part of HMTL5.

Another question for me = is if ConTeXt should also output code for
the = iBooks epub format, (Basicaly epub, but some extras).
There are thing you can do in/with ConTeXt that would work = with iBooks
that do not in =E2=80=9Eordinary=E2=80=9C= epub books.

Then, there is the Kindle format one might want to = consider!

Another, question which needs investigation is if the ConTeXt = output for epub,
also, implementing the fallbacks = for missing features which is required?

Just some added thoughts.

Basically, you can only = expect ConTeXts epub output to be a starting point that
then has to be tweak.

regards
= Keith.

Am = 17.02.2015 um 07:11 schrieb Axel Kielhorn <tex@axelkielhorn.de>:

[...]
Yes I know.
Let me rephrase the question:

Should the symbols used in epub be identical to = those used in the pdf or should the css determine the look of the = symbols?
Especially when one = considers that most current ebook readers can't display = MathML.

Even if I substitute the = Symbols:

\definesymbol[uni1][=E2=80=A2]
\definesymbol[uni2][=E2=80=93]
\definesymbol[uni3][*]
\definesymbol[uni4][=C2=B7]

\setupitemgroup [itemize] [1] = [symbol=3Duni1]
\setupitemgroup [itemize] = [2] [symbol=3Duni2]
\setupitemgroup [itemize] = [3] [symbol=3Duni3]
\setupitemgroup [itemize] = [4] [symbol=3Duni4]

I get a result that = neither ADE nor Calibre interprets as a list.
(Wrapping it in <ul> </ul> doesn't = help.) 


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