Insufficient symbol fonts error

Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Alan Bowen]

I am getting some puzzling errors when I try to use the Greek fonts  
in math formulae (to represent Greek numerals as written in mss.)

In a short file, both
\overbar{\grk{kj}} and
$\overline{\hbox{\grk{kj}}}$
work as expected, even when they occur in Greek text.

But in a long, complicated file with lots of Greek etc. and  the same  
environment file, I get

! Math formula deleted: Insufficient symbol fonts.
\stopmathmode ->$

\dodounderbar ...nderbar {-\dimen 0}{\dimen 2}{#1}
                                                   \egroup
\processisolatedwords ...dwordsfalse #2{\unhbox 0}
                                                   \else  
\isolatedwordstrue \...

\redounderbar ...sisolatedwords {#2}\dodounderbar
                                                   \egroup
l.1 ...-n'o\-menoc <hmer\-~wn \overbar {\grk {kj}}
                                                    ka`i pr'wtwn  
<exhkost~wn ...

\rescanwithsetup ...\scantokens {#2\ignorespaces }
                                                   \egroup
l.81 ...wn >embol'imwn <hmer~wn d/ >ep'ages\-jai.}
                                                    [8.44] \grk 
{<'ojen o>u de...

I am note really sure what this error message means or how to deal  
with it. Any suggestions will be gratefully received.

I am running the latest ConTeXT on the latest teTeX distribution.

Best, Alan

Re: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Sunday, October 30, 2005 Alan Bowen wrote:

> I am getting some puzzling errors when I try to use the Greek fonts
> in math formulae (to represent Greek numerals as written in mss.)

> In a short file, both
> \overbar{\grk{kj}} and
> $\overline{\hbox{\grk{kj}}}$
> work as expected, even when they occur in Greek text.

> But in a long, complicated file with lots of Greek etc. and  the same
> environment file, I get

> ! Math formula deleted: Insufficient symbol fonts.

Are you using the amsl or nath modules?

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Alan Bowen]

Giuseppe—

I am not using either the amsl or the nath modules. Never had to  
before. (The file has compiled successfully in its current form, but  
that was about a week ago.)

If I should be using one of these modules, which do you recommend?

Alan

On Oct 30, 2005, at 9:43 AM, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

> Sunday, October 30, 2005 Alan Bowen wrote:
>
>
>> I am getting some puzzling errors when I try to use the Greek fonts
>> in math formulae (to represent Greek numerals as written in mss.)
>>
>
>
>> In a short file, both
>> \overbar{\grk{kj}} and
>> $\overline{\hbox{\grk{kj}}}$
>> work as expected, even when they occur in Greek text.
>>
>
>
>> But in a long, complicated file with lots of Greek etc. and  the same
>> environment file, I get
>>
>
>
>> ! Math formula deleted: Insufficient symbol fonts.
>>
>
> Are you using the amsl or nath modules?
>
> -- 
> Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>

Re[2]: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Sunday, October 30, 2005 Alan Bowen wrote:

> Giuseppe—

> I am not using either the amsl or the nath modules. Never had to
> before. (The file has compiled successfully in its current form, but
> that was about a week ago.)

> If I should be using one of these modules, which do you recommend?

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting you should use these modules :)
On the contrary, I just recently found a bug in them that gave an
error similar to the one you found, when using point sizes
over 12. Since I knew the fix for that I was hoping it was
your problem, but sadly it isn't.

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Alan Bowen]

Giuseppe—

I inserted
\usemodule[t-amsl]
into the preamble and got the same error message:
     ! Math formula deleted: Insufficient symbol fonts.

But, when I inserted
\usemodule[t-nath]
the error message was
     !TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [input stack size=5000]
which seems much more promising.

Assuming that increasing the input stack is possible and desirable,  
how do I do it?

Best, Alan


On Oct 30, 2005, at 9:43 AM, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

> Sunday, October 30, 2005 Alan Bowen wrote:
>
>
>> I am getting some puzzling errors when I try to use the Greek fonts
>> in math formulae (to represent Greek numerals as written in mss.)
>>
>
>
>> In a short file, both
>> \overbar{\grk{kj}} and
>> $\overline{\hbox{\grk{kj}}}$
>> work as expected, even when they occur in Greek text.
>>
>
>
>> But in a long, complicated file with lots of Greek etc. and  the same
>> environment file, I get
>>
>
>
>> ! Math formula deleted: Insufficient symbol fonts.
>>
>
> Are you using the amsl or nath modules?
>
> -- 
> Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>

Re[2]: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Sunday, October 30, 2005 Alan Bowen wrote:

> Giuseppe—

> I inserted
> \usemodule[t-amsl]
> into the preamble and got the same error message:
>      ! Math formula deleted: Insufficient symbol fonts.

> But, when I inserted
> \usemodule[t-nath]
> the error message was
>      !TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [input stack size=5000]
> which seems much more promising.

> Assuming that increasing the input stack is possible and desirable,
> how do I do it?

Please disregardi this, and remove the two modules. Since it
seems the 'Missing symbol fonts' problem only happens with a
big document, try the usual 'divide and conquer method':
terminate your document right after the formula that gives
the error, and progressively comment out halves of the
preceding text until you manage to isolate the chunk of text
preceding the formula that generates the error.

Example: say that that from \starttext to \stoptext there
are 300 lines, and that the formula is at the last line.
Then you comment the first 150 lines and see if the error
occurs. If it doesn't happen, you uncomment the first 150
and comment the subsequent 150 (Except for the formula, of
course). This way you can tell which half causes the error.
In the uncommented half that causes the error you repeat the
process (75 lines at a time), then again and again until you
manage to focus around the shortest document that causes the
error.

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: Re[2]: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Alan Bowen]

Giuseppe—

Actually, it can happen with a very short document too:

\starttext
\grk{\overbar{\grk{kj}} Kull'hnhc d$^{\hbox{\tfx\grk{ou}}}$ med'eonta  
ka`i >Arkad'ihc polum'hlou}

\stoptext

will produce the
     ! Math formula deleted: Insufficient symbol fonts error.

To generalize: all my attempts to enter mathmode when the bodyfont is  
Greek (using one of the fonts in Thomas Schmitz’ Greek module) fail  
because of insufficient symbol fonts.

I wonder if this bears of the fact that in this module the fonts have  
to be defined at every size used in the document. The relevant line  
in type-tasgreek is
\definebodyfont
[30pt,25pt,20pt,18pt,17.3pt,14.4pt,14pt,12pt,11pt,10.5pt,10.1pt,10pt, 
9pt,8pt,7pt,6pt,5pt,4pt]
[rm]

My environment file sets the body font size to 10.1 pt.

Alan

On Oct 30, 2005, at 10:26 AM, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

> Sunday, October 30, 2005 Alan Bowen wrote:
>
>
>> Giuseppe—
>>
>
>
>> I inserted
>> \usemodule[t-amsl]
>> into the preamble and got the same error message:
>>      ! Math formula deleted: Insufficient symbol fonts.
>>
>
>
>> But, when I inserted
>> \usemodule[t-nath]
>> the error message was
>>      !TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [input stack size=5000]
>> which seems much more promising.
>>
>
>
>> Assuming that increasing the input stack is possible and desirable,
>> how do I do it?
>>
>
> Please disregardi this, and remove the two modules. Since it
> seems the 'Missing symbol fonts' problem only happens with a
> big document, try the usual 'divide and conquer method':
> terminate your document right after the formula that gives
> the error, and progressively comment out halves of the
> preceding text until you manage to isolate the chunk of text
> preceding the formula that generates the error.
>
> Example: say that that from \starttext to \stoptext there
> are 300 lines, and that the formula is at the last line.
> Then you comment the first 150 lines and see if the error
> occurs. If it doesn't happen, you uncomment the first 150
> and comment the subsequent 150 (Except for the formula, of
> course). This way you can tell which half causes the error.
> In the uncommented half that causes the error you repeat the
> process (75 lines at a time), then again and again until you
> manage to focus around the shortest document that causes the
> error.
>
> -- 
> Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>

Re[4]: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Sunday, October 30, 2005 Alan Bowen wrote:

> Giuseppe—

> Actually, it can happen with a very short document too:

> \starttext
> \grk{\overbar{\grk{kj}} Kull'hnhc
> d$^{\hbox{\tfx\grk{ou}}}$ med'eonta  
> ka`i >Arkad'ihc polum'hlou}

> \stoptext

> will produce the
>      ! Math formula deleted: Insufficient symbol fonts error.

> To generalize: all my attempts to enter mathmode when the bodyfont is
> Greek (using one of the fonts in Thomas Schmitz’ Greek module) fail
> because of insufficient symbol fonts.

> I wonder if this bears of the fact that in this module the fonts have
> to be defined at every size used in the document. The relevant line
> in type-tasgreek is
> \definebodyfont
> [30pt,25pt,20pt,18pt,17.3pt,14.4pt,14pt,12pt,11pt,10.5pt,10.1pt,10pt,
> 9pt,8pt,7pt,6pt,5pt,4pt]
> [rm]

> My environment file sets the body font size to 10.1 pt.

I'm not the font expert, but the problem seems to be that
math small text isn't being set (if I see it correctly,
you're using math mode to enter a superscript). I would
suggest you try \text instead of \hbox in the math part, and
even better try \hi{superscript text} or \super{superscript
text} for the superscript.

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: Re[4]: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Alan Bowen]

Giuseppe—

Thanks for the tip about \high. That works (and looks cleaner in the  
source file too). But

\grk{\overbar{\grk{kj}} Kull'hnhc  d\high{\tfx\grk{ou}} med'eonta  
ka`i >Arkad'ihc polum'hlou}

still chokes on \overbar and returns the “insufficient symbol fonts”  
error.

Alan

On Oct 30, 2005, at 12:31 PM, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

> Sunday, October 30, 2005 Alan Bowen wrote:
>
>
>> Giuseppe—
>>
>
>
>> Actually, it can happen with a very short document too:
>>
>
>
>> \starttext
>> \grk{\overbar{\grk{kj}} Kull'hnhc
>> d$^{\hbox{\tfx\grk{ou}}}$ med'eonta
>> ka`i >Arkad'ihc polum'hlou}
>>
>
>
>> \stoptext
>>
>
>
>> will produce the
>>      ! Math formula deleted: Insufficient symbol fonts error.
>>
>
>
>> To generalize: all my attempts to enter mathmode when the bodyfont is
>> Greek (using one of the fonts in Thomas Schmitz’ Greek module) fail
>> because of insufficient symbol fonts.
>>
>
>
>> I wonder if this bears of the fact that in this module the fonts have
>> to be defined at every size used in the document. The relevant line
>> in type-tasgreek is
>> \definebodyfont
>> [30pt,25pt,20pt,18pt,17.3pt,14.4pt,14pt,12pt,11pt,10.5pt,10.1pt,10pt,
>> 9pt,8pt,7pt,6pt,5pt,4pt]
>> [rm]
>>
>
>
>> My environment file sets the body font size to 10.1 pt.
>>
>
> I'm not the font expert, but the problem seems to be that
> math small text isn't being set (if I see it correctly,
> you're using math mode to enter a superscript). I would
> suggest you try \text instead of \hbox in the math part, and
> even better try \hi{superscript text} or \super{superscript
> text} for the superscript.
>
> -- 
> Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>

Re[6]: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Monday, October 31, 2005 Alan Bowen wrote:

> Giuseppe—

> Thanks for the tip about \high. That works (and looks cleaner in the
> source file too). But

> \grk{\overbar{\grk{kj}} Kull'hnhc  d\high{\tfx\grk{ou}} med'eonta
> ka`i >Arkad'ihc polum'hlou}

> still chokes on \overbar and returns the “insufficient symbol fonts”
> error.

First of all, I notice you are having quite a few \grk in
there, unless that's a typo for $...$. Have you tried
\overline instead of \overbar?

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: Re[6]: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Alan Bowen]

I removed some of the \grk. ( I had inserted them because I was  
uncertain of the effect entering math mode would have on my body font  
choice. In Plain TeX, I think it was necessary to specify the font.)

\grk{\overline{kj}} still fails because of insufficient symbol fonts  
(just as \grk{\overbar{kj}}).

Alan

On Oct 31, 2005, at 6:05 AM, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

> Monday, October 31, 2005 Alan Bowen wrote:
>
>
>> Giuseppe—
>>
>
>
>> Thanks for the tip about \high. That works (and looks cleaner in the
>> source file too). But
>>
>
>
>> \grk{\overbar{\grk{kj}} Kull'hnhc  d\high{\tfx\grk{ou}} med'eonta
>> ka`i >Arkad'ihc polum'hlou}
>>
>
>
>> still chokes on \overbar and returns the “insufficient symbol fonts”
>> error.
>>
>
> First of all, I notice you are having quite a few \grk in
> there, unless that's a typo for $...$. Have you tried
> \overline instead of \overbar?
>
> -- 
> Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>

Re[8]: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Giuseppe Bilotta]

Monday, October 31, 2005 Alan Bowen wrote:

> I removed some of the \grk. ( I had inserted them because I was
> uncertain of the effect entering math mode would have on my body font
> choice. In Plain TeX, I think it was necessary to specify the font.)

> \grk{\overline{kj}} still fails because of insufficient symbol fonts
> (just as \grk{\overbar{kj}}).

Shouldn't these be \overline{\grk{kj}}?

Anyway, I'm afraid I can't help you any further :(

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

Re: Re[8]: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Alan Bowen]

Giuseppe,

Many thanks for your help: it is very much appreciated.

\overbar{{\grk{kj}}} \grk{Kull'hnhc d\high{\tfx{ou}} med'eonta ka`i  
 >Arkad'ihc polum'hlou}

works, but it really is more a work-around than a good solution.

Ideally, one would like to be able to do math when the body font is  
Greek. But we both need some font wizards to help with this.

All best, Alan





On Oct 31, 2005, at 8:06 AM, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

> Monday, October 31, 2005 Alan Bowen wrote:
>
>
>> I removed some of the \grk. ( I had inserted them because I was
>> uncertain of the effect entering math mode would have on my body font
>> choice. In Plain TeX, I think it was necessary to specify the font.)
>>
>
>
>> \grk{\overline{kj}} still fails because of insufficient symbol fonts
>> (just as \grk{\overbar{kj}}).
>>
>
> Shouldn't these be \overline{\grk{kj}}?
>
> Anyway, I'm afraid I can't help you any further :(
>
> -- 
> Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>

Re: Re[8]: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

Alan,

I know next to nothing about math, but I know that the Greek  
typescripts do not define a math font. So you will get errors doing  
math when the body font is Greek. I wish I could help, but defining a  
math font is beyond my abilities. If anyone is interested in doing  
it, however, I will be happy to provide the specs for the Greek fonts.

Best

Thomas

On Oct 31, 2005, at 2:36 PM, Alan Bowen wrote:

> Giuseppe,
>
> Many thanks for your help: it is very much appreciated.
>
> \overbar{{\grk{kj}}} \grk{Kull'hnhc d\high{\tfx{ou}} med'eonta ka`i  
> >Arkad'ihc polum'hlou}
>
> works, but it really is more a work-around than a good solution.
>
> Ideally, one would like to be able to do math when the body font is  
> Greek. But we both need some font wizards to help with this.
>
> All best, Alan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2005, at 8:06 AM, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:
>
>
>> Monday, October 31, 2005 Alan Bowen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I removed some of the \grk. ( I had inserted them because I was
>>> uncertain of the effect entering math mode would have on my body  
>>> font
>>> choice. In Plain TeX, I think it was necessary to specify the font.)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> \grk{\overline{kj}} still fails because of insufficient symbol fonts
>>> (just as \grk{\overbar{kj}}).
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Shouldn't these be \overline{\grk{kj}}?
>>
>> Anyway, I'm afraid I can't help you any further :(
>>
>> -- 
>> Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ntg-context mailing list
>> ntg-context@ntg.nl
>> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>>
>>
>
>

Re: Insufficient symbol fonts error

[Hans Hagen]

Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:

> Alan,
>
> I know next to nothing about math, but I know that the Greek  
> typescripts do not define a math font. So you will get errors doing  
> math when the body font is Greek. I wish I could help, but defining a  
> math font is beyond my abilities. If anyone is interested in doing  
> it, however, I will be happy to provide the specs for the Greek fonts.

because math is also used for text (some symbols) you need a math font 
(when using typefaces); the best is to define greek as part of a 
typeface and define a proper math with it); it depends a bit on what 
trickery you use;

(normally such problems should not happen so i'm a bit puzzled)

Hans