* hyphenate nothyphenated
@ 2021-06-29 10:06 Steffen Wolfrum
2021-06-29 11:52 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Steffen Wolfrum @ 2021-06-29 10:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
When running this mwe with luatex, the command \- could be used to manually break the line, even though it is set up nothyphenated.
When running luametatex the word does not break:
\setuppapersize[A10]
\showframe
\setuphead[chapter][align={nothyphenated}]
\starttext
\chapter{abc\-def}
\stoptext
Is this intended?
Steffen
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread* Re: hyphenate nothyphenated
2021-06-29 10:06 hyphenate nothyphenated Steffen Wolfrum
@ 2021-06-29 11:52 ` Hans Hagen
2021-06-30 17:35 ` Alan Braslau
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2021-06-29 11:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Steffen Wolfrum
On 6/29/2021 12:06 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> When running this mwe with luatex, the command \- could be used to manually break the line, even though it is set up nothyphenated.
>
> When running luametatex the word does not break:
>
>
> \setuppapersize[A10]
>
> \showframe
>
> \setuphead[chapter][align={nothyphenated}]
>
> \starttext
>
> \chapter{abc\-def}
>
> \stoptext
>
> Is this intended?
well, you ask for nothyphenated; we could define
\permanent\protected\def\-%
{\begingroup
\hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary
\endgroup}
i will ponder this
Hans
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tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread* Re: hyphenate nothyphenated
2021-06-29 11:52 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2021-06-30 17:35 ` Alan Braslau
2021-06-30 18:25 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau @ 2021-06-30 17:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hans Hagen, Steffen Wolfrum; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 29/06/21 05:52, Hans Hagen wrote:
> well, you ask for nothyphenated; we could define
>
> \permanent\protected\def\-%
> {\begingroup
> \hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary
> \endgroup}
>
> i will ponder this
I believe that \- defines an *optional* hyphenation point.
Specifying nothyphenated should not hyphenate, even at optional points.
The author can otherwise use hyphenated and arrange to help the words
get hyphenated at certain points.
Perhaps a new "optional" hyphenation point macro can be added that would
have super-powers to override the align parameter. There would be no
surprises using such a feature.
--
Alan
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread* Re: hyphenate nothyphenated
2021-06-30 17:35 ` Alan Braslau
@ 2021-06-30 18:25 ` Hans Hagen
2021-06-30 18:40 ` Alan Braslau
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2021-06-30 18:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Braslau, Steffen Wolfrum; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 6/30/2021 7:35 PM, Alan Braslau wrote:
> On 29/06/21 05:52, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> well, you ask for nothyphenated; we could define
>>
>> \permanent\protected\def\-%
>> {\begingroup
>> \hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary
>> \endgroup}
>>
>> i will ponder this
>
> I believe that \- defines an *optional* hyphenation point.
> Specifying nothyphenated should not hyphenate, even at optional points.
> The author can otherwise use hyphenated and arrange to help the words
> get hyphenated at certain points.
>
> Perhaps a new "optional" hyphenation point macro can be added that would
> have super-powers to override the align parameter. There would be no
> surprises using such a feature.
We can't use \= unless we drop the \= being macros (anyone using that?)
We can also use \+ which currently is just "+" because it needs some
value (sometimes it gets a local meaning).
So here is something to ponder:
\pushoverloadmode \unprotect
\permanent\protected\def\superexplicitdiscretionary
{\begingroup
\hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary
\endgroup}
\aliased\let\lang_explicit_discretionary_nop\explicitdiscretionary
\permanent\protected\def\lang_explicit_discretionary_yes-%
{\superexplicitdiscretionary}
\permanent\protected\def\-%
{\doifelsenextcharcs-\lang_explicit_discretionary_yes\lang_explicit_discretionary_nop}
\protect \popoverloadmode
\nohyphens \hsize 1mm
test\-test \par test\--test
\stoptext
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread* Re: hyphenate nothyphenated
2021-06-30 18:25 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2021-06-30 18:40 ` Alan Braslau
2021-06-30 18:50 ` Wolfgang Schuster
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau @ 2021-06-30 18:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hans Hagen, Steffen Wolfrum; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On 30/06/21 12:25, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 6/30/2021 7:35 PM, Alan Braslau wrote:
>> On 29/06/21 05:52, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> well, you ask for nothyphenated; we could define
>>>
>>> \permanent\protected\def\-%
>>> {\begingroup
>>> \hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary
>>> \endgroup}
>>>
>>> i will ponder this
>>
>> I believe that \- defines an *optional* hyphenation point.
>> Specifying nothyphenated should not hyphenate, even at optional points.
>> The author can otherwise use hyphenated and arrange to help the words
>> get hyphenated at certain points.
>>
>> Perhaps a new "optional" hyphenation point macro can be added that
>> would have super-powers to override the align parameter. There would
>> be no surprises using such a feature.
> We can't use \= unless we drop the \= being macros (anyone using that?)
>
> We can also use \+ which currently is just "+" because it needs some
> value (sometimes it gets a local meaning).
>
> So here is something to ponder:
>
> \pushoverloadmode \unprotect
>
> \permanent\protected\def\superexplicitdiscretionary
> {\begingroup
> \hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary
> \endgroup}
>
> \aliased\let\lang_explicit_discretionary_nop\explicitdiscretionary
>
> \permanent\protected\def\lang_explicit_discretionary_yes-%
> {\superexplicitdiscretionary}
>
> \permanent\protected\def\-%
>
> {\doifelsenextcharcs-\lang_explicit_discretionary_yes\lang_explicit_discretionary_nop}
>
>
> \protect \popoverloadmode
>
> \nohyphens \hsize 1mm
>
> test\-test \par test\--test
>
> \stoptext
\= macron accent (bar) should not be changed.
\-- is a good suggestion, like insisting, and should not get confused
with -- (en dash).
--
Alan
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread* Re: hyphenate nothyphenated
2021-06-30 18:40 ` Alan Braslau
@ 2021-06-30 18:50 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2021-06-30 22:12 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Schuster @ 2021-06-30 18:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Alan Braslau; +Cc: Steffen Wolfrum
Alan Braslau schrieb am 30.06.2021 um 20:40:
> On 30/06/21 12:25, Hans Hagen wrote:
>> On 6/30/2021 7:35 PM, Alan Braslau wrote:
>>> On 29/06/21 05:52, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>>> well, you ask for nothyphenated; we could define
>>>>
>>>> \permanent\protected\def\-%
>>>> {\begingroup
>>>> \hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary
>>>> \endgroup}
>>>>
>>>> i will ponder this
>>>
>>> I believe that \- defines an *optional* hyphenation point.
>>> Specifying nothyphenated should not hyphenate, even at optional points.
>>> The author can otherwise use hyphenated and arrange to help the
>>> words get hyphenated at certain points.
>>>
>>> Perhaps a new "optional" hyphenation point macro can be added that
>>> would have super-powers to override the align parameter. There would
>>> be no surprises using such a feature.
>> We can't use \= unless we drop the \= being macros (anyone using that?)
>>
>> We can also use \+ which currently is just "+" because it needs some
>> value (sometimes it gets a local meaning).
>>
>> So here is something to ponder:
>>
>> \pushoverloadmode \unprotect
>>
>> \permanent\protected\def\superexplicitdiscretionary
>> {\begingroup
>> \hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary
>> \endgroup}
>>
>> \aliased\let\lang_explicit_discretionary_nop\explicitdiscretionary
>>
>> \permanent\protected\def\lang_explicit_discretionary_yes-%
>> {\superexplicitdiscretionary}
>>
>> \permanent\protected\def\-%
>>
>> {\doifelsenextcharcs-\lang_explicit_discretionary_yes\lang_explicit_discretionary_nop}
>>
>>
>> \protect \popoverloadmode
>>
>> \nohyphens \hsize 1mm
>>
>> test\-test \par test\--test
>>
>> \stoptext
>
> \= macron accent (bar) should not be changed.
>
> \-- is a good suggestion, like insisting, and should not get confused
> with -- (en dash).
Is there some problem to make it just another option.
\enabledirectives[hyphenators.discretionary=hyphenated|nothyphenated]
Wolfgang
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread* Re: hyphenate nothyphenated
2021-06-30 18:50 ` Wolfgang Schuster
@ 2021-06-30 22:12 ` Hans Hagen
2021-07-01 15:54 ` Alan Braslau
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2021-06-30 22:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Wolfgang Schuster, mailing list for ConTeXt users, Alan Braslau
Cc: Steffen Wolfrum
On 6/30/2021 8:50 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Alan Braslau schrieb am 30.06.2021 um 20:40:
>> On 30/06/21 12:25, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> On 6/30/2021 7:35 PM, Alan Braslau wrote:
>>>> On 29/06/21 05:52, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>>>> well, you ask for nothyphenated; we could define
>>>>>
>>>>> \permanent\protected\def\-%
>>>>> {\begingroup
>>>>> \hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary
>>>>> \endgroup}
>>>>>
>>>>> i will ponder this
>>>>
>>>> I believe that \- defines an *optional* hyphenation point.
>>>> Specifying nothyphenated should not hyphenate, even at optional points.
>>>> The author can otherwise use hyphenated and arrange to help the
>>>> words get hyphenated at certain points.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps a new "optional" hyphenation point macro can be added that
>>>> would have super-powers to override the align parameter. There would
>>>> be no surprises using such a feature.
>>> We can't use \= unless we drop the \= being macros (anyone using that?)
>>>
>>> We can also use \+ which currently is just "+" because it needs some
>>> value (sometimes it gets a local meaning).
>>>
>>> So here is something to ponder:
>>>
>>> \pushoverloadmode \unprotect
>>>
>>> \permanent\protected\def\superexplicitdiscretionary
>>> {\begingroup
>>> \hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary
>>> \endgroup}
>>>
>>> \aliased\let\lang_explicit_discretionary_nop\explicitdiscretionary
>>>
>>> \permanent\protected\def\lang_explicit_discretionary_yes-%
>>> {\superexplicitdiscretionary}
>>>
>>> \permanent\protected\def\-%
>>>
>>> {\doifelsenextcharcs-\lang_explicit_discretionary_yes\lang_explicit_discretionary_nop}
>>>
>>>
>>> \protect \popoverloadmode
>>>
>>> \nohyphens \hsize 1mm
>>>
>>> test\-test \par test\--test
>>>
>>> \stoptext
>>
>> \= macron accent (bar) should not be changed.
>>
>> \-- is a good suggestion, like insisting, and should not get confused
>> with -- (en dash).
>
> Is there some problem to make it just another option.
>
> \enabledirectives[hyphenators.discretionary=hyphenated|nothyphenated]
or maybe some key is \setuplanguages (what key)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread* Re: hyphenate nothyphenated
2021-06-30 22:12 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2021-07-01 15:54 ` Alan Braslau
2021-07-01 15:57 ` Steffen Wolfrum
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau @ 2021-07-01 15:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hans Hagen; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users, Steffen Wolfrum
On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 00:12:40 +0200
Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >> \= macron accent (bar) should not be changed.
> >>
> >> \-- is a good suggestion, like insisting, and should not get
> >> confused with -- (en dash).
> >
> > Is there some problem to make it just another option.
> >
> > \enabledirectives[hyphenators.discretionary=hyphenated|nothyphenated]
> >
> or maybe some key is \setuplanguages (what key)
Why not, but this would be somewhat obscure for the average user who
would have to identify and then set this option in all documents...
The \-- extension is kind-of nice, obscure in its own way but good
functionally. The risk is of users confusing this with the en ligature,
something that unicode users avoid...
Maybe implement both solutions (setup affecting \- as well as \--) in
Context?
Alan
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: hyphenate nothyphenated
2021-07-01 15:54 ` Alan Braslau
@ 2021-07-01 15:57 ` Steffen Wolfrum
2021-07-01 16:05 ` Alan Braslau
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Steffen Wolfrum @ 2021-07-01 15:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Braslau; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
> Am 01.07.2021 um 17:54 schrieb Alan Braslau <braslau.list@comcast.net>:
>
> On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 00:12:40 +0200
> Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>>>> \= macron accent (bar) should not be changed.
>>>>
>>>> \-- is a good suggestion, like insisting, and should not get
>>>> confused with -- (en dash).
>>>
>>> Is there some problem to make it just another option.
>>>
>>> \enabledirectives[hyphenators.discretionary=hyphenated|nothyphenated]
>>>
>> or maybe some key is \setuplanguages (what key)
>
> Why not, but this would be somewhat obscure for the average user who
> would have to identify and then set this option in all documents...
>
> The \-- extension is kind-of nice, obscure in its own way but good
> functionally. The risk is of users confusing this with the en ligature,
> something that unicode users avoid...
>
> Maybe implement both solutions (setup affecting \- as well as \--) in
> Context?
And what about \– (U+2013)?
Steffen
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: hyphenate nothyphenated
2021-07-01 15:57 ` Steffen Wolfrum
@ 2021-07-01 16:05 ` Alan Braslau
2021-07-01 16:58 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Alan Braslau @ 2021-07-01 16:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Steffen Wolfrum; +Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 17:57:28 +0200
Steffen Wolfrum <context@st.estfiles.de> wrote:
> > Am 01.07.2021 um 17:54 schrieb Alan Braslau
> > <braslau.list@comcast.net>:
> >
> > On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 00:12:40 +0200
> > Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >
> >>>> \= macron accent (bar) should not be changed.
> >>>>
> >>>> \-- is a good suggestion, like insisting, and should not get
> >>>> confused with -- (en dash).
> >>>
> >>> Is there some problem to make it just another option.
> >>>
> >>> \enabledirectives[hyphenators.discretionary=hyphenated|nothyphenated]
> >>>
> >> or maybe some key is \setuplanguages (what key)
> >
> > Why not, but this would be somewhat obscure for the average user who
> > would have to identify and then set this option in all documents...
> >
> > The \-- extension is kind-of nice, obscure in its own way but good
> > functionally. The risk is of users confusing this with the en
> > ligature, something that unicode users avoid...
> >
> > Maybe implement both solutions (setup affecting \- as well as \--)
> > in Context?
>
>
> And what about \– (U+2013)?
Now THAT gets confusing!
Why not U+2010 (HYPHEN), the anti-U+2011 (NON BREAKING HYPHEN)
vs. U+002D (HYPHEN-MINUS). What a can of worms...
(which is why I like the \-- syntax)
Alan
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2021-07-01 16:58 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-06-29 10:06 hyphenate nothyphenated Steffen Wolfrum
2021-06-29 11:52 ` Hans Hagen
2021-06-30 17:35 ` Alan Braslau
2021-06-30 18:25 ` Hans Hagen
2021-06-30 18:40 ` Alan Braslau
2021-06-30 18:50 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2021-06-30 22:12 ` Hans Hagen
2021-07-01 15:54 ` Alan Braslau
2021-07-01 15:57 ` Steffen Wolfrum
2021-07-01 16:05 ` Alan Braslau
2021-07-01 16:58 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
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