From: Thomas Savary <compo85@correctionpro.fr>
To: Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>
Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users <ntg-context@ntg.nl>
Subject: Re: characterspacing not always working in LMTX
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:59:37 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <9129788.3TmcztfxEV@debian> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <c13e4862-3e5f-4fd2-3e4c-d48e98bc4317@xs4all.nl>
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Hans :
> never seen them [thin spaces] in dutch ...
Example from a book published in Haarlem, 1838, “Gedichten van Nicolaas Beets”
— you will even see thin spaces before commas, like in France in the 17th-18th
century.
https://books.google.fr/books?
id=s1BUAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=fr&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
> i think not so much lazyness but side
> effect of going digital ... i bet that these spaces were also (ab)used
> to justify lines (cheat a bit) i.e. manual injection of some lead blobs :
The first books where I saw all thin spaces disappear were printed in the USA in
the 20th century, after 1910 but certainly before 1960, so before digital
publishing, but I am no specialist of type history.
> keep in mind that we use values that were specified by french users ...
> however, as usual with language specific features, these can differ per
> user
I guess that they unfortunately were no typographers. It is true that there
are at least two different schools on this subject. I will explain all that
when I have a bit more time.
Greetings
Thomas Savary
1 le Grand-Plessis
F-85340 L’Île-d’Olonne
Tél. 06 22 82 61 34
https://compo85.fr/
mercredi 15 janvier 2020, à 10:15:45 CET, Hans Hagen a écrit :
> On 1/14/2020 11:25 PM, Thomas Savary wrote:
> > Hello, dear list !
> >
> > Joseph :
> > > With LMTX (MkIV is fine) characterspacing (I use frenchpunctuation)
> >
> > is not
> >
> > > applied sometimes (ie no spacing before colon for example) in some
> >
> > parts of
> >
> > Character-spacing for French punctuation marks is incorrect in MkIV
> > anyway : the “thin” spaces are much too wide. I will write more about it
> > when I have more time. I have just begun to lean ConTeXt. For the time
> > being, I don’t use its automatic spacing for French punctuation, but
> > real Unicode spaces such as U+202F (non breakable thin space, about
> > 0.125 em, depending on the font).
>
> keep in mind that we use values that were specified by french users ...
> however, as usual with language specific features, these can differ per
> user
>
> anyway, it's configureable
>
> > By the way, thin spaces are not specific to French typography,
> > historically speaking, since they seem to have been used everywhere in
> > Europe for centuries — at least in England, Belgium, Germany and Italy
> > (probably in the Netherlands too, I will check). In France and sometimes
> > in England, thin spaces were often used before commas as well. I wonder
> > why most countries stopped using them. Out of laziness ? :-)
>
> never seen them in dutch ... i think not so much lazyness but side
> effect of going digital ... i bet that these spaces were also (ab)used
> to justify lines (cheat a bit) i.e. manual injection of some lead blob
>
> Hans
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-01-15 14:59 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 12+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-01-14 21:58 Joseph
2020-01-14 22:24 ` Wolfgang Schuster
2020-01-14 22:25 ` Thomas Savary
2020-01-15 9:15 ` Hans Hagen
2020-01-15 10:29 ` Taco Hoekwater
2020-01-15 12:02 ` Arthur Reutenauer
2020-01-15 15:10 ` Thomas Savary
2020-01-15 15:16 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
2020-01-17 8:41 ` Thomas Savary
2020-01-17 9:01 ` Henning Hraban Ramm
2020-01-15 14:59 ` Thomas Savary [this message]
2020-01-15 9:16 ` Hans Hagen
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