[NTG-context] Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[NTG-context] Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hamid,Idris]

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Dear gang,

It seems that ConTeXt does not currently implement optical scaling for Latin Modern -- at least not by default. For example:

=======
\startTEXpage[offset=1em]
Test {\tfa Test} {\tfb Test} {\tfc Test} {\tfd Test} {\tfx Test} {\tfxx Test}
\stopTEXpage
=======

In the log we have

=======
mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 2 files: latinmodern-math.otf, lmroman10-regular.otf
=======

Is this behavior intentional? The needed sizes are certainly available (/texmf/fonts/data/gust/lm).

This issue came up while trying to test/implement something else. Although Computer Modern / Latin Modern is perhaps hardly popular for contemporary publication work, a full implementation of the full palette of optical sizes is still useful as a benchmark, etc.

Best wishes
Idris

--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

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[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/15/2023 3:56 PM, Hamid,Idris wrote:
> Dear gang,
> 
> It seems that ConTeXt does not currently implement optical scaling for Latin Modern -- at least not by default. For example:
> 
> =======
> \startTEXpage[offset=1em]
> Test {\tfa Test} {\tfb Test} {\tfc Test} {\tfd Test} {\tfx Test} {\tfxx Test}
> \stopTEXpage
> =======
> 
> In the log we have
> 
> =======
> mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 2 files: latinmodern-math.otf, lmroman10-regular.otf
> =======
> 
> Is this behavior intentional? The needed sizes are certainly available (/texmf/fonts/data/gust/lm).

yes, but there are also typescript that define the sizes (made more 
sense on low res printers) .. the current defaults have been so for many 
years (so the fact that you didn't notice ...)

these sizes are mostly for math and we have a 10pt lm math with built in 
scritp and scriptscript

> This issue came up while trying to test/implement something else. Although Computer Modern / Latin Modern is perhaps hardly popular for contemporary publication work, a full implementation of the full palette of optical sizes is still useful as a benchmark, etc.
well you can load the design size typescript

(likely we will go for \enableexperiments[fonts.compact] anyway which is 
also more efficient)

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hamid,Idris]

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On Aug 15, 2023, 8:09 AM -0600, Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>, wrote:

> yes, but there are also typescript that define the sizes (made more
> sense on low res printers) .. the current defaults have been so for many
> years (so the fact that you didn't notice ...)

Maybe I forgot about it.. I seem to remember a very long time ago some experiments with typescripts for computer-modern opticals, before latin modern became default (it's all foggy now..)

But for sure ConTeXt used to load lmroman12-regular (or the computer-modern 12 pt) by default. So things have changed..

> well you can load the design size typescript

Ok, where is that design size typescript? A search for, e.g., lmroman8-regular etc. in

texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv

yields no results, so it must be defined at some higher level of abstraction..


> (likely we will go for \enableexperiments[fonts.compact] anyway which is
> also more efficient)

Ok, that would be very helpful; many thanks.

Best wishes
Idris
--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

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[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/15/2023 4:35 PM, Hamid,Idris wrote:

> But for sure ConTeXt used to load lmroman12-regular (or the computer-modern 12 pt) by default. So things have changed..

afaik mkiv always had modern as default an dnot the designsize 
typescript (after all, we only have math 10pt)

>> well you can load the design size typescript
> 
> Ok, where is that design size typescript? A search for, e.g., lmroman8-regular etc. in
> 
> texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv
> 
> yields no results, so it must be defined at some higher level of abstraction..

well, in type-imp-latinmodern.mkiv i can find 'designsize' ... you're 
not relying on some gpt driven search machine are you?

>> (likely we will go for \enableexperiments[fonts.compact] anyway which is
>> also more efficient)
> 
> Ok, that would be very helpful; many thanks.
it might process your arabic a bit faster

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hamid,Idris]

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On Aug 15, 2023, 8:56 AM -0600, Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>, wrote:

> afaik mkiv always had modern as default an dnot the designsize
> typescript (after all, we only have math 10pt)

From font-pre.mkiv:

%D By default we load the Computer Modern Roman fonts (but
%D not yet at this moment) and activate the 12pt roman
%D bodyfont.

-)

> well, in type-imp-latinmodern.mkiv i can find 'designsize' ... you're
> not relying on some gpt driven search machine are you?

No just the search files feature in Notepad++ -)

Ok, looking at type-imp-latinmodern.mkiv, under latin-modern-designsize, I see references to design weights and styles but not to optical sizes. So no lmroman5-regular, lmroman6-regular... lmroman17-regular. There is only reference to lmroman10, which is why my initial search came up with no results.

Ah, the abstraction happens here I think:

\definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!rm] [\s!serif] [latin-modern-designsize] [\s!default] [\s!designsize=\s!auto]

so [\s!designsize=\s!auto] means there is no explicit call to lmroman8-regular etc.? Interesting..

Ok, let's try it:

=======
\setupbodyfont[modern-designsize]

\startTEXpage[offset=1em]
Test {\tfa Test} {\tfb Test} {\tfc Test} {\tfd Test} {\tfx Test} {\tfxx Test}
\stopTEXpage
=======

Now we get

=======
mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 4 files: latinmodern-math.otf, lmroman10-regular.otf, lmroman12-regular.otf, lmroman8-regular.otf
=======

So three optical sizes are implemented. But there should be more, e.g., \tfd should use lmroman17-regular etc.

>>> (likely we will go for \enableexperiments[fonts.compact] anyway which is
>>> also more efficient)

>>Ok, that would be very helpful; many thanks.

> it might process your arabic a bit faster

Ah, great. Am looking forward to learning how to \enableexperiments[fonts.compact] etc. once it's implemented.

Best wishes
Idris
--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

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[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/15/2023 5:33 PM, Hamid,Idris wrote:

> so [\s!designsize=\s!auto] means there is no explicit call to lmroman8-regular etc.? Interesting..

check the lfg file ...

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hamid,Idris]

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Ah, the goodies files.. Got it and thanks for the clarifications.

Best wishes
Idris

--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
On Aug 15, 2023, 10:22 AM -0600, Hans Hagen <j.hagen@xs4all.nl>, wrote:
** Caution: EXTERNAL Sender **

On 8/15/2023 5:33 PM, Hamid,Idris wrote:

so [\s!designsize=\s!auto] means there is no explicit call to lmroman8-regular etc.? Interesting..

check the lfg file ...

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[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Vincent Hennebert]

On Tue, 2023-08-15 at 18:22 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:

> On 8/15/2023 5:33 PM, Hamid,Idris wrote:
> 
> 
> > so [\s!designsize=\s!auto] means there is no explicit call to
lmroman8-regular etc.? Interesting..
> 
> 
> check the lfg file ...

On that note, there seems to be an inconsistency in the design size
selection:

    \setupbodyfont[modern-designsize,12pt]
    \starttext
    This text is typeset in LMRoman12.\par
    {\tfa This text should be typeset in LMRoman12 but LMRoman10
    is being used instead.}
    \stoptext

If I understand the font selection algorithm well, the font that will
be picked is the first font whose associated size is greater than or
equal to the requested size. If there is no such font the default is
used instead.

So, since in lm.lfg LMRoman12 is associated to 12pt, any text in a
higher size will be typeset using the default LMRoman10.

I understand that the default font should remain what it is since it
used when design sizes are disabled (using the typescript ‘modern’ and
not ‘modern-designsize’).

So, LMRoman12 should probably be associated to the biggest possible
value rather than 12pt (16383pt?).

Does that make sense?

Thanks,
Vincent


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