From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/85303 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Keith J. Schultz" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: EPUB woes Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:12:08 +0100 Message-ID: <971C0359-183E-490F-B693-EA2801FE9126@uni-trier.de> References: <52878C67.90007@meahan.net> <5287A29B.6010302@meahan.net> <528A063A.10203@wxs.nl> <63EC0C6C-1DBA-4CE4-84E5-66347AF42417@uni-trier.de> <528A3350.7040306@wxs.nl> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0109426695==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1384798335 12272 80.91.229.3 (18 Nov 2013 18:12:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:12:15 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon Nov 18 19:12:20 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ViTJ4-0006Zh-Fc for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:12:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A222101F9; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:12:17 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 3tVawThWmxbk; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:12:14 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A2B210202; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:12:14 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89F4D10202 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:12:12 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id OVFuD0t--sQ3 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:12:10 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from filter5-til.mf.surf.net (filter5-til.mf.surf.net [194.171.167.221]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BABAD101F9 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:12:10 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mx2.uni-trier.de (mx2.uni-trier.de [136.199.224.18]) by filter5-til.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id rAIIC9La027453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:12:09 +0100 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,725,1378850400"; d="scan'208,217";a="8265082" Original-Received: from rzmail.uni-trier.de ([136.199.8.220]) by mx2i.uni-trier.de with ESMTP; 18 Nov 2013 19:12:09 +0100 Original-Received: from [10.0.62.5] (dslb-084-058-252-244.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.252.244]) by rzmail.uni-trier.de (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C423F40207 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:12:08 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <528A3350.7040306@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0109 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=136.199.224.18; country=DE; region=08; city=Trier; latitude=49.7500; longitude=6.6333; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=49.7500,6.6333&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0WKP6c918 - e5d0dfa789d8 - 20131118 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 194.171.167.221 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:85303 Archived-At: --===============0109426695== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F510A737-6376-4058-8835-2448327A4B99" --Apple-Mail=_F510A737-6376-4058-8835-2448327A4B99 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Am 18.11.2013 um 16:33 schrieb Hans Hagen : > On 11/18/2013 4:11 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote: >> Hi Hans, >>=20 >>=20 >> Am 18.11.2013 um 13:21 schrieb Hans Hagen : >>=20 >>> On 11/18/2013 10:00 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote: >>>=20 >>>> 2) Now, what a EPub-READER must implement to handle is very >>>> little. There are HARDLY ANY provisions that a certified = EPuB-READER has >>>> to implement any particular engine or features therein = to display/render >>>> the information contain in the EPub-file/wrapper. >>>=20 >>> right, and I'm not going to waste time on it till i have a decent = ebook reader that behaves well >> The point you are missing is that the ereaders are behaving = well. They are following the epub >> standard, and that to the letter of the standard. The = problem is that the standard does not >> enforce any particular implementation. If you look at the slow = progress of the standard that >> actually requires a full implementation of the HTML5 standard. = That wait will very long. >=20 > sure, and every time i see an epub novel i realize that for something = like that one really can stick to rather dumb html ... the point is that = one cannot expect context to output simple everywhere accepted html from = complex rendered input ... I agree fully. But, Since there are those that wish to produce = epubs aka ebooks, they should not be doing complex layout. One can always go from simple to complicated in needed, = if there were commands dedicated to epub/ebooks/html. As I had pointed out in my last post below. >=20 >> Furthermore, ereaders are made by companies more interested in = profits than spending a few Euros >> more to put decent HTML engines into their readers. Why they do = not do that is beyond me! >>>=20 >>>>> 3. Modify the way in which ConTeXt generates the XML files. = Ideally, I should be able to write something like >>>> Would be nice if there where commands in ConTeXt or a module for = defining what should go into the CSS and a >>>> mode "epub" where the ConTeXt commands are converted to suitible = HTML5 structures that are suitiable for >>>> most ereaders. >>>> Features: >>>> 1) margins in percentages >>>> 2) font sizes based on em >>>> 3) a new file for every chapter optional for = sections user defined >>>> Just a few. Lots more can be found in any decent documentation = on writing ebooks. >>>=20 >>> context outputs xml and as a bonus provides a css too ... one can = always convert that xml to his/her ebooks liking .. maybe at some point = the mtx-epub script will do that >>=20 >> I always to like to look at programming as modular and would = think that a epub/ebook module would be nice that maps >> there are commands for layingout ebooks. these commands can then = be mapped back to standard context commands. >=20 > in that case code in xml and either processit by context or transform = it into something ebooks can render >=20 >> For some interested in producing a epub then can use the = conventions for producing ebooks and ConTeXt can provide the >> math conversions to regular page dimensions used in PDFs for = proofing or creating a printed version. It would also make the >> creation of EPubs from ConTeXt a simple parsing exercise. >=20 > so far i had no projects where epub was needes so it has a low = priority and i still read paper books (or when i would have ebooks i = wouldn't need to render them) ... pdfs views quite well on e.g. nexus 7 = devices and i assume the upcoming sony high res ebook will also do pdf = well Well I did start the discussion. Just offer my 2 Euro cents = worth. Especially, since it comes up every now and then. Furthermore, I there was a simple way to create epubs/books with = ConTeXt more would use this feature.=20 =09 I have used up enough of or time. regards Keith. --Apple-Mail=_F510A737-6376-4058-8835-2448327A4B99 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Am 18.11.2013 um 16:33 schrieb Hans = Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:
On = 11/18/2013 4:11 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
Hi Hans,


Am 18.11.2013 um 13:21 schrieb Hans = Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:

On 11/18/2013 10:00 AM, Keith J. Schultz = wrote:

2) Now, what a EPub-READER must = implement to handle is very
     littl= e. There are HARDLY ANY provisions that a certified EPuB-READER = has
           &= nbsp; to implement any particular engine or features therein to = display/render
     the = information contain in the EPub-file/wrapper.

right, = and I'm not going to waste time on it till i have a decent ebook reader = that behaves well
The point you are missing is that = the ereaders are behaving well. They are following the = epub
         standard, = and that to the letter of the standard. The problem is that the standard = does not
= enforce any particular implementation. If you look at the slow = progress of the standard that
actually requires a full = implementation of the HTML5 standard. That  wait will very = long.

sure, and every time i see an epub novel i = realize that for something like that one really can stick to rather dumb = html ... the point is that one cannot expect context to output simple = everywhere accepted html from complex rendered input = ...
I agree fully. But, Since there = are those that wish to produce epubs aka ebooks, they should not be = doing complex
layout. One can always go from = simple to complicated in needed, if there were commands dedicated to = epub/ebooks/html.
As I had pointed out in my last = post below.

Furthermore, ereaders are made by = companies more interested in profits than spending a few Euros
more to = put decent HTML engines into their readers. Why they do not do that is = beyond me!

3. Modify the way in which = ConTeXt generates the XML files. Ideally, I should be able to write = something like
Would be nice if there where = commands in ConTeXt or a module for defining what should go into the CSS = and a
= mode "epub" where the ConTeXt commands are converted to suitible = HTML5 structures that are suitiable for
most ereaders.
= Features:
         =             &n= bsp; 1) margins in = percentages
          = ;            &= nbsp;2) font sizes based on em
      = ;         3) a new file for = every chapter optional for sections user defined
Just a = few. Lots more can be found in any decent documentation on writing = ebooks.

context outputs xml and as a bonus provides = a css too ... one can always convert that xml to his/her ebooks liking = .. maybe at some point the mtx-epub script will do = that

I always to like to look at = programming as modular and would think that a epub/ebook module would be = nice that maps
there are commands for layingout ebooks. these commands = can then be mapped back to standard context = commands.

in that case code in xml and either = processit by context or transform it into something ebooks can = render

For some interested in producing = a epub then can use the conventions for producing ebooks and ConTeXt can = provide the
math conversions to regular page dimensions used in PDFs = for proofing or creating a printed version. It would also make = the
= creation of EPubs from ConTeXt a simple parsing = exercise.

so far i had no projects where epub was = needes so it has a low priority and i still read paper books (or when i = would have ebooks i wouldn't need to render them) ... pdfs views quite = well on e.g. nexus 7 devices and i assume the upcoming sony high res = ebook will also do pdf well
Well I = did start the discussion. Just offer my 2 Euro cents worth. Especially, = since it comes up every now and then.
= Furthermore, I there was a simple way to create epubs/books with = ConTeXt more would use this feature. 
=
I have used up enough of or = time.

regards
= Keith.


= --Apple-Mail=_F510A737-6376-4058-8835-2448327A4B99-- --===============0109426695== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============0109426695==--