From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/65355 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "R. Ermers" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Translating PDF-files Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:03:17 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20110119143026.GB12551@phare.normalesup.org> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1295449420 17876 80.91.229.12 (19 Jan 2011 15:03:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:03:40 +0000 (UTC) To: Mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Wed Jan 19 16:03:34 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([195.12.62.10]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PfZZN-0003Os-Ur for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:03:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43FE1CAA12; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:03:33 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id KxJCox6BcwYu; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:03:31 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2E0CCAA0B; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:03:30 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3487ECAA0B for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:03:30 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 7b6H94ISkGWg for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:03:19 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from filter3-til.mf.surf.net (filter3-til.mf.surf.net [194.171.167.219]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5DD6CAA09 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:03:18 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from cpsmtpb-ews06.kpnxchange.com (cpsmtpb-ews06.kpnxchange.com [213.75.39.9]) by filter3-til.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id p0JF3Ifu031372 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:03:18 +0100 Original-Received: from cpbrm-ews31.kpnxchange.com ([10.94.84.162]) by cpsmtpb-ews06.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:03:18 +0100 Original-Received: from CPSMTPM-CMT108.kpnxchange.com ([195.121.3.24]) by cpbrm-ews31.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:03:17 +0100 Original-Received: from imac-van-robert.lan ([77.168.85.243]) by CPSMTPM-CMT108.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.0.6001.18000); Wed, 19 Jan 2011 16:03:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20110119143026.GB12551@phare.normalesup.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jan 2011 15:03:17.0602 (UTC) FILETIME=[00EE0420:01CBB7EA] X-RcptDomain: ntg.nl X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=213.75.39.9; country=NL; latitude=52.5000; longitude=5.7500; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.5000,5.7500&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0eDVr3i4j - 77b56d68c582 - 20110119 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 194.171.167.219 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:65355 Archived-At: Off topic: Well, I speak Russian and some other languages. Yes you are right, the 5th case is the locative (after o), the 6th case is the instrumental. One does not count the cases everyday :-) It is not a language in general that is difficult, but the pair a language is in: the pair English-Russian is, in some aspects, more difficult than the other way around because of the choice for the perfective aspect or imperfective aspect of the tenses. An English text does not offer any clues as to which aspect to choose, but anyone who wants to speaks Russian has to decide instantly. A program is unlikely do that. These problems might not exist for the pair Ukrainian-Russian, or perhaps (?) Polish-Russian, or - who knows - Basque-Russian. The options for determine the appropriate aspect, if programmers succeed in building them at all, are, for example, not needed in the pair English-Dutch. The reversed pair Russian-English poses different problems, such as when and where to put an article. The program has to derive from the context whether a given Russian noun in the text should be interpreted as determined or undetermined, and then whether it is appropriate to put the article, etcetera. Robert >> Even though the result will no doubt show cyrillic words, which looks interesting, the factual result will be rubbish, and most likely unintelligible to any Russian. > > That's an interesting statement; do you have any experience with that > at all, or are you simply speculating? I have never heard any claim > that machine translation would be more difficult for some particular > languages. It's generally a hard problem, and each language has its > specific issues, not only Russian (that has 6 cases, by the way, not 7, > and really only one fully conjugated tense). > > Arthur > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________