From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/60224 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: luigi scarso Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Tables for newbies [WAS Re: imbalanced columns] Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:21:19 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4C3E1D62.9080404@gmx.net> <4C3EC7BF.2020804@gmx.net> <4C3F4170.5080600@gmx.net> <20100716130519.GA22690@gaston.couberia.bzh> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1382688292==" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279304496 32389 80.91.229.12 (16 Jul 2010 18:21:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:21:36 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Fri Jul 16 20:21:32 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([195.12.62.10]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZpXN-0003fv-1M for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:21:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E5DAC9BB9; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:21:28 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id S6FKIhtXV+P4; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:21:24 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 624A6C9B8C; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:21:24 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDFD4C9B8C for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:21:22 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 6VzDRQXa7n92 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:21:19 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-wy0-f169.google.com (mail-wy0-f169.google.com [74.125.82.169]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F7EFC9B49 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:21:19 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by wyj26 with SMTP id 26so2360486wyj.14 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:21:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=u4jEZ9mzsXdzPxt1/Xr4S1yj1WyRWavrsRRIb7TFF0g=; b=Iw8atzVwkr3aDnpgjjPes8WnAJugcalR+bgJklvfW5g4roLrcX02UvsT0mUKfUbWW/ D6mZ078f1Vpf1/iP1uXGc+r6I8iBY9Y3vXVDs2VmeDvXC2cq+yb3EDD27O+A1vYdSHE8 CYtgdlRQZX52E695yVITIfspAVZAjpRZROkTc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=vJ7lAoT/ytqlFvyXdyESJtLUY4msArb5aeXeHnk7hZC6C4zk9JpXTwXdCaSK50Yjic TE3loh36BJzYCHU/1fFcuZm2J8ZMwAtOOIeKkXTDMMlPWUAhlzBPcNeXKpfWOTnruceX MwcrdtjB7/Q+BXNdSCxETgPFcs6Rrvuv/nI0Y= Original-Received: by 10.227.136.2 with SMTP id p2mr1206470wbt.215.1279304479070; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.216.131.226 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:21:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:60224 Archived-At: --===============1382688292== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e648d3d608e3d7048b854902 --0016e648d3d608e3d7048b854902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/7/16 Idris Samawi Hamid =D8=A7=D8=AF=D8=B1=D9=8A=D8=B3 =D8=B3=D9=85=D8= =A7=D9=88=D9=8A =D8=AD=D8=A7=D9=85=D8=AF > Hi Peter, > > > On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:05:19 -0600, Peter M=C3=BCnster = wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 15 2010, Idris Samawi Hamid =D8=A7=D8=AF=D8=B1=D9=8A=D8=B3 = =D8=B3=D9=85=D8=A7=D9=88=D9=8A =D8=AD=D8=A7=D9=85=D8=AF wrote: >> >> Question for all: for MkIV, should we recommend ONLY natural tables to >>> newcomers, e.g., in a ConTeXt Book? >>> >> >> Hello Idris, >> >> For me, it's yes! But newcomers need to pay attention in some cases: >> - alignment (see issue http://tracker.luatex.org/view.php?id=3D427 ) >> - TABLEhead is repeated, TABLEfoot is not >> (see issue http://tracker.luatex.org/view.php?id=3D116 ) >> > > Sure, hopefully by the time we get to that point the bugs will be fixed. > > I also see that Wolfgang has wrapped some of the old Tables syntax into a > module (as Aditya hinted)... I missed all of these developments :-) > > The Tables syntax is certainly less verbose, and may be useful for > beginners. But for pedagogical purposes it makes sense to consider > Table/Tables deprecated, if not obsolete... So the pedagogical challenge = is > to make TABLE as easy as possible, perhaps teaching \start/stopTABLE as > intro and \b/eTABLE as advanced. > > > A top-down approach 1) \bTABLE 2) \starttabulate 3) chapter 22 of TeXbook 1) is much easy than 2) which is much easy than 3 1) is slower than 2) which is slower than 3) --=20 luigi --0016e648d3d608e3d7048b854902 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2010/7/16 Idris Samawi Hamid =D8=A7=D8= =AF=D8=B1=D9=8A=D8=B3 =D8=B3=D9=85=D8=A7=D9=88=D9=8A =D8=AD=D8=A7=D9=85= =D8=AF <isham= id@colostate.edu>
Hi Peter,


On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 07:05:19 -0600, Peter M=C3=BCnster <pmlists@free.fr> wrote:

On Thu, Jul 15 2010, Idris Samawi Hamid =D8=A7=D8=AF=D8=B1=D9=8A=D8=B3 =C2= =A0 =D8=B3=D9=85=D8=A7=D9=88=D9=8A =D8=AD=D8=A7=D9=85=D8=AF wrote:

Question for all: for MkIV, should we recommend ONLY natural tables to
newcomers, e.g., in a ConTeXt Book?

Hello Idris,

For me, it's yes! =C2=A0But newcomers need to pay attention in some cas= es:
- alignment (see issue http://tracker.luatex.org/view.php?id=3D427 )
- TABLEhead is repeated, TABLEfoot is not
=C2=A0(see issue http://tracker.luatex.org/view.php?id=3D116 )

Sure, hopefully by the time we get to that point the bugs will be fixed.
I also see that Wolfgang has wrapped some of the old Tables syntax into a m= odule (as Aditya hinted)... I missed all of these developments :-)

The Tables syntax is certainly less verbose, and may be useful for beginner= s. But for pedagogical purposes it makes sense to consider Table/Tables dep= recated, if not obsolete... So the pedagogical challenge is to make TABLE a= s easy as possible, perhaps teaching \start/stopTABLE as intro and \b/eTABL= E as advanced.


A top-down =C2=A0approach=C2=A0
1) \b= TABLE
2) \starttabulate
3) chapter 22 of TeXbook
<= div>
1) is much easy than 2) which is much easy than 3
<= div>
1) is slower than 2) which is slower than 3)

--=C2=A0
luigi

--0016e648d3d608e3d7048b854902-- --===============1382688292== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============1382688292==--