From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/37869 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Willi Egger Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: TeX ligatures in XeTeX/LuaTeX: ``who needs them''? Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:49:38 +0100 Message-ID: References: <6faad9f00712081404h160264b4h1802480d1140f32a@mail.gmail.com> <8C808585-FD3F-4E36-BB4B-5B46CED0075A@boede.nl> <6faad9f00712091048y578ddf47g7cd36cc2f6bdc8a8@mail.gmail.com> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1197290375 30154 80.91.229.12 (10 Dec 2007 12:39:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:39:35 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Mon Dec 10 13:39:45 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J1hv6-0005LV-1s for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:39:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D621FB4B; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:39:18 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 28969-10; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:38:36 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E82F1FB21; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:02:56 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1FC1FB71 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:54:08 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 16394-01-5 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:52:46 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mail.7values.nl (pluto.digitpaint.nl [83.98.197.3]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513D51FB4B for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:50:03 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.7values.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148A318D29 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:49:40 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mail.7values.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (pluto [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 08734-01-76 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:49:39 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.17] (a80-126-172-1.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.126.172.1]) by mail.7values.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDB2518D28 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:49:39 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <6faad9f00712091048y578ddf47g7cd36cc2f6bdc8a8@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:37869 Archived-At: Hi Mojca, On Dec 9, 2007, at 7:48 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote: > On Dec 9, 2007 5:07 PM, Willi Egger wrote: >>> or even more weird ones: >>> !` -> inverted exclam >>> ?` -> inverted question >> >> For Spanish this is definitevely necessary. Again if coded in UTF >> there is no problem. > > Do Spansh users still key them in like that (apart from old TeX-ies > who have never heard abot anything beyond \v, \", \')? I mean: would > anyone miss those two ligatures? (I assume that people need to use > inverted quotation marks in Word as well ...) > I was not to the point on this and I misinterpreted your question. = Sorry. Indeed the well known coding of umlauts and alike with \"... should = be there for sake of compatibility. - If those would vanish, this = would mean for me to re-encode a couple of thousand pages ... Coming back to the quotation-marks. IMHO one should stick to the = \quote and \quotation constructs. This and only this allows you to = change the appearance of the marks depending on a given language or = adjust them to the style of a print-house/publisher. I would suggest = not to make provisions in order to automatically convert ,, into =84 . = There will be consistency problems and the behaviour of Word i.e. = that things happen while you have difficulty to control them. > Ono problem is that that's a "well known" TeX behaviour though > (documented in beginner's manual as well). > >>> Some ligatures are handy indeed: >>> -- -> endash >>> --- -> emdash >>> ' -> right single quote (I'm, isn't etc.) >> >> Sure this is important, I suggest to add the horizontal ellipsis > > \dots? But what if one decides to use, say, 10 dots in a row? That > might lead to weird effects (non-evenly spaced dots). -- and --- have > been well established, so one would be careful enough before writing > "----------". And there's \dots, so that one could have been mapped to > ellipsis if needed. > The ellipsis is typographically an important 'character'. So todays = solution with \dots or \unknown is fine to me. When necessary one can = adjust the kerning of the dots for style-purposes. Otherwise one = could discuss to convert three consecutive dots (and only those) to = the horizontal ellipsis in Unicode, which would look always better = than three dots from the keyboard. Also here it is questionable = whether to have automatic conversion. Again this is resembling Word = and how to keep grip on what is happening. IMHO the user who places an x-number of dots or dashes must know what = he does. There might not be a generic solution for such cases. Willi > Thanks, > Mojca > ______________________________________________________________________ = > _____________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an = > entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ = > ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ______________________________________________________________________ = > _____________ ___________________________________________________________________________= ________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-cont= ext webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________= ________