Arabic transliteration

Arabic transliteration

[Alan Bowen]

Greetings!

I am trying to typeset some transliterated Arabic and one of the  
diacritical marks is giving me a problem. How does one put what looks  
like a breve accent (a cup or concave arc) under an letter in ConTeXT?

Cheers, Alan
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Re: Arabic transliteration

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

Hi,

On Tue, 13 May 2008 15:53:17 -0600, Alan Bowen <acbowen@princeton.edu>  
wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> I am trying to typeset some transliterated Arabic and one of the
> diacritical marks is giving me a problem. How does one put what looks
> like a breve accent (a cup or concave arc) under an letter in ConTeXT?

I used to use macros for that purpose, with the latest Latin Modern fonts  
you should have every Arabic transliteration character you need, including  
the arc under the <h>, ie, ḫ. In luatex you just type ḫ. Try it!

Best wishes
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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Re: Arabic transliteration

[Mojca Miklavec]

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On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Alan Bowen wrote:
> Greetings!
>
>  I am trying to typeset some transliterated Arabic and one of the
>  diacritical marks is giving me a problem. How does one put what looks
>  like a breve accent (a cup or concave arc) under an letter in ConTeXT?

Hello,

First of all, it's nice if the font provides that character. Which
fonts are you using for your document?

I wanted to send you an example of how it can be done in different
ways, but there seems to be in interesting problem with XeTeX at the
moment, so I wasn't able to play with it.

But in general:

a) simply use character U+032E (combining breve below)
It kind-of-works with LM, but not perfect (there has been some
discussion about how to improve the behaviour of combining accents in
LM)

b) use character brevebelow from LM and use TeX to place the accent,
see enco-ini.tex for examples

Of course you can assign your own macro to either of the two options
to access the accent more easily.

Mojca

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Re: Arabic transliteration

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Tue, 13 May 2008 16:24:02 -0600, Mojca Miklavec  
<mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wanted to send you an example of how it can be done in different
> ways, but there seems to be in interesting problem with XeTeX at the
> moment, so I wasn't able to play with it.
>
> But in general:
>
> a) simply use character U+032E (combining breve below)
> It kind-of-works with LM, but not perfect (there has been some
> discussion about how to improve the behaviour of combining accents in
> LM)

The big problem with macros for this sort of thing is getting the italics  
right -- Arabic transliteration typically uses italics in running text.  
The macro will have to be adjusted (or an italic parameter changed) for  
every font. See \def\sh@ft on page 356 of the TeXBook.

Anyway, the Unicode 1E00--FF block has most of these problematic chars,  
and LM has incorporated the relevant ones.

For other fonts, perhaps Hans could implement a combining command that  
gives an italics parameter option, though that will differ for regular,  
bold, etc...

Best wishes
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Arabic transliteration

[Hans Hagen]

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 16:24:02 -0600, Mojca Miklavec  
> <mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I wanted to send you an example of how it can be done in different
>> ways, but there seems to be in interesting problem with XeTeX at the
>> moment, so I wasn't able to play with it.
>>
>> But in general:
>>
>> a) simply use character U+032E (combining breve below)
>> It kind-of-works with LM, but not perfect (there has been some
>> discussion about how to improve the behaviour of combining accents in
>> LM)
> 
> The big problem with macros for this sort of thing is getting the italics  
> right -- Arabic transliteration typically uses italics in running text.  
> The macro will have to be adjusted (or an italic parameter changed) for  
> every font. See \def\sh@ft on page 356 of the TeXBook.
> 
> Anyway, the Unicode 1E00--FF block has most of these problematic chars,  
> and LM has incorporated the relevant ones.
> 
> For other fonts, perhaps Hans could implement a combining command that  
> gives an italics parameter option, though that will differ for regular,  
> bold, etc...

ah, you mean that the automatic combiner should adapt to italic/slant 
... i need to look into it

bold is no problem

Hans

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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Arabic transliteration

[Alan Bowen]

Many thanks, Idris and Mojca.

If all goes well, I will move to luatex this summer---that really does  
seem to be the way to go---and then investigate XeTeX, which I gather  
is now functioning well with luatex. For now, however, I will have to  
cobble a macro using hints that Mojca provided.

By the way I am using Latin Modern (ec encoding).

Very best, Alan
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 15:53:17 -0600, Alan Bowen <acbowen@princeton.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Greetings!
>>
>> I am trying to typeset some transliterated Arabic and one of the
>> diacritical marks is giving me a problem. How does one put what looks
>> like a breve accent (a cup or concave arc) under an letter in  
>> ConTeXT?
>
> I used to use macros for that purpose, with the latest Latin Modern  
> fonts
> you should have every Arabic transliteration character you need,  
> including
> the arc under the <h>, ie, ḫ. In luatex you just type ḫ. Try it!
>
> Best wishes, Idris

On May 13, 2008, at 18;24,02 , Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> Hello,
>
> First of all, it's nice if the font provides that character. Which
> fonts are you using for your document?
>
> I wanted to send you an example of how it can be done in different
> ways, but there seems to be in interesting problem with XeTeX at the
> moment, so I wasn't able to play with it.
>
> But in general:
>
> a) simply use character U+032E (combining breve below)
> It kind-of-works with LM, but not perfect (there has been some
> discussion about how to improve the behaviour of combining accents in
> LM)
>
> b) use character brevebelow from LM and use TeX to place the accent,
> see enco-ini.tex for examples
>
> Of course you can assign your own macro to either of the two options
> to access the accent more easily.
>
> Mojca
> < 
> brevebelow 
> .tex 
> > 
> < 
> brevebelow 
> .pdf 
> > 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Arabic transliteration

[Idris Samawi Hamid]

On Wed, 14 May 2008 08:41:08 -0600, Alan Bowen <acbowen@princeton.edu>  
wrote:

> For now, however, I will have to
> cobble a macro using hints that Mojca provided.
>
> By the way I am using Latin Modern (ec encoding).

Have you checked the very latest Latin Modern? You should not need macros,  
since all Arabic transliteration chars are there now.

If you really do need macros, I can send you my old Arabic transliteration  
macros and you can use/modify those for the effect you need.

Best wishes
Idris

-- 
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief
International Journal of Shi`i Studies
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Arabic transliteration

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Alan Bowen wrote:
> Many thanks, Idris and Mojca.
>
>  If all goes well, I will move to luatex this summer---that really does
>  seem to be the way to go---and then investigate XeTeX, which I gather
>  is now functioning well with luatex. For now, however, I will have to
>  cobble a macro using hints that Mojca provided.

My hint(s) only work in XeTeX and LuaTeX.

>  By the way I am using Latin Modern (ec encoding).

With ec encoding you really need to do ugly things. You need to
compose a character by more or less manually lowering the breve accent
and take care for italic correction yourself. Not even accent
primitive can be used for it. And you cannot use the combining accent
after the character or the proper Unicode glyph (though the latter
might be possible by patching some definition in ConTeXt core), you
always need to use a macro.

With XeTeX and LuaTeX all that comes (almost) for free.

Mojca
___________________________________________________________________________________
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Arabic transliteration

[Alan Bowen]

Ugly things indeed, Mojca. And even more so given my limited skills.  
Here is what I have for  “H” with a breve accent below.
\def\Hbrevebelow{H\smash{\lower1.9ex\hbox{\kern-3pt\llap{\char'010}}} 
\kern3pt}
This only “works” in an italic environment by the way.

With apologies to the wizards on this list,

Alan

On May 14, 2008, at 13;17,49 , Mojca Miklavec wrote:

> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Alan Bowen wrote:
>> Many thanks, Idris and Mojca.
>>
>> If all goes well, I will move to luatex this summer---that really  
>> does
>> seem to be the way to go---and then investigate XeTeX, which I gather
>> is now functioning well with luatex. For now, however, I will have to
>> cobble a macro using hints that Mojca provided.
>
> My hint(s) only work in XeTeX and LuaTeX.
>
>> By the way I am using Latin Modern (ec encoding).
>
> With ec encoding you really need to do ugly things. You need to
> compose a character by more or less manually lowering the breve accent
> and take care for italic correction yourself. Not even accent
> primitive can be used for it. And you cannot use the combining accent
> after the character or the proper Unicode glyph (though the latter
> might be possible by patching some definition in ConTeXt core), you
> always need to use a macro.
>
> With XeTeX and LuaTeX all that comes (almost) for free.
>
> Mojca
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive  : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
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