* sometxt in mkiv
@ 2008-09-07 15:52 Thomas A. Schmitz
2008-09-07 23:32 ` Aditya Mahajan
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Thomas A. Schmitz @ 2008-09-07 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing ConTeXt users list for
I think this message mysteriously disappeared yesterday (at least I
didn;t see it); if you've seen it before, please excuse the double post!
Hi all,
I was just wondering if this is a bug or if it's something that still
needs to be implemented: the example on p. 10 of Mojca's sometxt MyWay
works in mkii, yet in mkiv, it doesn't:
\starttext
\startTeXtexts
\dorecurse{12}{\TeXtext{\recurselevel}{\recurselevel}}
\stopTeXtexts
\startMPcode
numeric r; r = 1.5cm;
draw fullcircle scaled 2r;
for i=1 upto 12:
draw (origin--down) scaled 4pt shifted (0,r) rotated -30i;
label(sometxt(i), up scaled .75r rotated -30i);
endfor;
\stopMPcode
\stoptext
in mkiv, I get no labels and the somewhat cryptic sentence "[do we
need TeXtexts in MkIV]" on my pdf. Anybody able to answer this or my
question?
All best
Thomas
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* sometxt in mkiv
@ 2008-09-06 11:15 Thomas A. Schmitz
2008-09-07 13:43 ` Aditya Mahajan
2008-09-07 19:42 ` Mojca Miklavec
0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Thomas A. Schmitz @ 2008-09-06 11:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing ConTeXt users list for
Hi all,
I was just wondering if this is a bug or if it's something that still
needs to be implemented: the example on p. 10 of Mojca's sometxt MyWay
works in mkii, yet in mkiv, it doesn't:
\starttext
\startTeXtexts
\dorecurse{12}{\TeXtext{\recurselevel}{\recurselevel}}
\stopTeXtexts
\startMPcode
numeric r; r = 1.5cm;
draw fullcircle scaled 2r;
for i=1 upto 12:
draw (origin--down) scaled 4pt shifted (0,r) rotated -30i;
label(sometxt(i), up scaled .75r rotated -30i);
endfor;
\stopMPcode
\stoptext
in mkiv, I get no labels and the somewhat cryptic sentence "[do we
need TeXtexts in MkIV]" on my pdf. Anybody able to answer this or my
question?
All best
Thomas
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: sometxt in mkiv
2008-09-06 11:15 Thomas A. Schmitz
@ 2008-09-07 13:43 ` Aditya Mahajan
2008-09-07 19:42 ` Mojca Miklavec
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Aditya Mahajan @ 2008-09-07 13:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Hi Thomas,
On Sat, 6 Sep 2008, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I was just wondering if this is a bug or if it's something that still
> needs to be implemented: the example on p. 10 of Mojca's sometxt MyWay
> works in mkii, yet in mkiv, it doesn't:
>
> \starttext
> \startTeXtexts
> \dorecurse{12}{\TeXtext{\recurselevel}{\recurselevel}}
> \stopTeXtexts
>
> \startMPcode
> numeric r; r = 1.5cm;
> draw fullcircle scaled 2r;
> for i=1 upto 12:
> draw (origin--down) scaled 4pt shifted (0,r) rotated -30i;
> label(sometxt(i), up scaled .75r rotated -30i);
> endfor;
> \stopMPcode
> \stoptext
>
> in mkiv, I get no labels and the somewhat cryptic sentence "[do we
> need TeXtexts in MkIV]" on my pdf. Anybody able to answer this or my
> question?
In MKIV, you can simply use textext for such purposes:
\starttext
\startMPcode
numeric r; r = 1.5cm;
draw fullcircle scaled 2r;
for i=1 upto 12:
draw (origin--down) scaled 4pt shifted (0,r) rotated -30i;
label(textext(decimal i), up scaled .75r rotated -30i);
endfor;
\stopMPcode
\stoptext
Aditya
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: sometxt in mkiv
2008-09-06 11:15 Thomas A. Schmitz
2008-09-07 13:43 ` Aditya Mahajan
@ 2008-09-07 19:42 ` Mojca Miklavec
2008-09-08 7:22 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2008-09-08 8:16 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Mojca Miklavec @ 2008-09-07 19:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I was just wondering if this is a bug or if it's something that still
> needs to be implemented: the example on p. 10 of Mojca's sometxt MyWay
> works in mkii, yet in mkiv, it doesn't:
>
> \starttext
> \startTeXtexts
> \dorecurse{12}{\TeXtext{\recurselevel}{\recurselevel}}
> \stopTeXtexts
>
> \startMPcode
> numeric r; r = 1.5cm;
> draw fullcircle scaled 2r;
> for i=1 upto 12:
> draw (origin--down) scaled 4pt shifted (0,r) rotated -30i;
> label(sometxt(i), up scaled .75r rotated -30i);
> endfor;
> \stopMPcode
> \stoptext
>
> in mkiv, I get no labels and the somewhat cryptic sentence "[do we
> need TeXtexts in MkIV]" on my pdf. Anybody able to answer this or my
> question?
Honestly, I don't think that we need this exact functionality. In mkiv
textext works perfectly well to achieve the same goal, you don't
really need \sometxt or \TeXtext. The only question is: do we care
about backward compatibility? I can also remove the example from MyWay
or write that it's a bit obscure. It really is an obscure application.
OK, I just neglected the fact that I do use that in the gnuplot module
(which is not mkiv ready for two tiny and obscure reasons that could
be fixed long ago). In case that I won't be drawing the graphs for
thesis in excell, I'll try to fix the module. I don't think that any
other sane person uses \TeXtext. (I don't, and module should be fixed
anyway.)
Mojca
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: sometxt in mkiv
2008-09-07 19:42 ` Mojca Miklavec
@ 2008-09-08 7:22 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2008-09-08 9:26 ` Hans Hagen
2008-09-09 15:13 ` Mojca Miklavec
2008-09-08 8:16 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Thomas A. Schmitz @ 2008-09-08 7:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Sep 7, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> Honestly, I don't think that we need this exact functionality. In mkiv
> textext works perfectly well to achieve the same goal, you don't
> really need \sometxt or \TeXtext. The only question is: do we care
> about backward compatibility? I can also remove the example from MyWay
> or write that it's a bit obscure. It really is an obscure application.
>
> OK, I just neglected the fact that I do use that in the gnuplot module
> (which is not mkiv ready for two tiny and obscure reasons that could
> be fixed long ago). In case that I won't be drawing the graphs for
> thesis in excell, I'll try to fix the module. I don't think that any
> other sane person uses \TeXtext. (I don't, and module should be fixed
> anyway.)
>
> Mojca
Mojca, Aditya,
thanks for your responses. I was aware that you can use textext
(that's what I do right now), but was under the impression that
sometxt was the way to go (faster and more flexible). Now I'm
confused :-) I was asking because I was working on my presentation
module. One of the metapost graphics for picture inclusion seems to
give problems when run under XeTeX, so I was wondering if I could
replace it with the clever sometxt mechanism Mojca mentions in her
MyWay. But then I saw that this doesn't work in mkiv... I find XeTeX
very hard to support in my module. I don't use it myself, I find fonts
deeply baffling (I still got the darned "mktextfm lmtypewriter-
blablabla" message a zillion times, and there is no way to stop a
XeTeX run; I still had to explicitly disable MKTEXTFM in texmf.cnf in
TeXLive 2008), so I'm considering just giving it up and tell people to
use mkiv instead.
Mojca: I appreciate you write "any other sane person" and not "any
sane person" :-)
All best
Thomas
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: sometxt in mkiv
2008-09-08 7:22 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
@ 2008-09-08 9:26 ` Hans Hagen
2008-09-08 18:43 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2008-09-09 15:07 ` Mojca Miklavec
2008-09-09 15:13 ` Mojca Miklavec
1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2008-09-08 9:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> thanks for your responses. I was aware that you can use textext
> (that's what I do right now), but was under the impression that
> sometxt was the way to go (faster and more flexible). Now I'm
> confused :-) I was asking because I was working on my presentation
both mkiv and sometxt use some box trickery which keeps the tex
processing completely inside the tex engine (only refs and dimensions
are passed); in order to deal with loopt, we introduced the TeXtext
trick but it' sno longer needed
there is still \sometxt but it's just a shortcut to a predefined
commando (e.g. framed) which can be handy sometimes
> module. One of the metapost graphics for picture inclusion seems to
> give problems when run under XeTeX, so I was wondering if I could
> replace it with the clever sometxt mechanism Mojca mentions in her
> MyWay. But then I saw that this doesn't work in mkiv... I find XeTeX
> very hard to support in my module. I don't use it myself, I find fonts
then just don't support it and assume mkiv usage
> deeply baffling (I still got the darned "mktextfm lmtypewriter-
> blablabla" message a zillion times, and there is no way to stop a
> XeTeX run; I still had to explicitly disable MKTEXTFM in texmf.cnf in
> TeXLive 2008), so I'm considering just giving it up and tell people to
> use mkiv instead.
indeed; this is a side effect of xetex being opentype and mp only able
to deal with 8 bit fonts; in mkiv mp never sees any text (not een the
btex .. etex which is replaced by by textext before the mp code is
passed to mp); that's why in mkiv your text is a matter of the current
run (inlcuding fotn settings and such, i.e. no need to pass anything to
MPenvironment either)
concerning your module ... you can have a mymodule.mkiv alongside
mymodule.tex if needed
Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: sometxt in mkiv
2008-09-08 9:26 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2008-09-08 18:43 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2008-09-09 15:07 ` Mojca Miklavec
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Thomas A. Schmitz @ 2008-09-08 18:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Sep 8, 2008, at 11:26 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> indeed; this is a side effect of xetex being opentype and mp only able
> to deal with 8 bit fonts; in mkiv mp never sees any text (not een the
> btex .. etex which is replaced by by textext before the mp code is
> passed to mp); that's why in mkiv your text is a matter of the current
> run (inlcuding fotn settings and such, i.e. no need to pass anything
> to
> MPenvironment either)
>
Ah OK, thanks for the explanation. This will make it quite hard to
support XeTeX. I'll have to look for a sane way to default to lm, then.
> concerning your module ... you can have a mymodule.mkiv alongside
> mymodule.tex if needed
At least for the font setup, I have long runs of \beginXETEX,
\beginLUATEX and \beginOLDTEX, that was enough for now.
Best
Thomas
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: sometxt in mkiv
2008-09-08 9:26 ` Hans Hagen
2008-09-08 18:43 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
@ 2008-09-09 15:07 ` Mojca Miklavec
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Mojca Miklavec @ 2008-09-09 15:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>
>> module. One of the metapost graphics for picture inclusion seems to
>> give problems when run under XeTeX, so I was wondering if I could
>> replace it with the clever sometxt mechanism Mojca mentions in her
>> MyWay. But then I saw that this doesn't work in mkiv... I find XeTeX
>> very hard to support in my module. I don't use it myself, I find fonts
>
> then just don't support it and assume mkiv usage
Don't listen to Hans :P
Gnuplot works (or at least used to work) with XeTeX just fine :) :) :)
If you want to support both mkii (via \sometxt) and mkiv, XeTeX
support comes with it (almost) for free.
Mojca
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: sometxt in mkiv
2008-09-08 7:22 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2008-09-08 9:26 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2008-09-09 15:13 ` Mojca Miklavec
2008-09-09 17:23 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Mojca Miklavec @ 2008-09-09 15:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
>
> Mojca, Aditya,
>
> thanks for your responses. I was aware that you can use textext
> (that's what I do right now), but was under the impression that
> sometxt was the way to go (faster and more flexible). Now I'm
> confused :-)
In mkii (XeTeX included) \sometxt is still the way to go.
textext("...") is way too slow and painful to use if you want to use
anything but simple LM texts.
In mkiv, textext("...") is efficient enough, so in theory it doesn't
matter what you use (\sometxt becomes just a synonym for
textext("...")), but I didn't test it extensively.
> I was asking because I was working on my presentation
> module. One of the metapost graphics for picture inclusion seems to
> give problems when run under XeTeX, so I was wondering if I could
> replace it with the clever sometxt mechanism Mojca mentions in her
> MyWay. But then I saw that this doesn't work in mkiv... I find XeTeX
> very hard to support in my module. I don't use it myself, I find fonts
> deeply baffling (I still got the darned "mktextfm lmtypewriter-
> blablabla" message a zillion times, and there is no way to stop a
> XeTeX run;
Apart from noisy messages: did it also fail or was it just annoying?
Mojca
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: sometxt in mkiv
2008-09-09 15:13 ` Mojca Miklavec
@ 2008-09-09 17:23 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Thomas A. Schmitz @ 2008-09-09 17:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
On Sep 9, 2008, at 5:13 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>> I was asking because I was working on my presentation
>> module. One of the metapost graphics for picture inclusion seems to
>> give problems when run under XeTeX, so I was wondering if I could
>> replace it with the clever sometxt mechanism Mojca mentions in her
>> MyWay. But then I saw that this doesn't work in mkiv... I find XeTeX
>> very hard to support in my module. I don't use it myself, I find
>> fonts
>> deeply baffling (I still got the darned "mktextfm lmtypewriter-
>> blablabla" message a zillion times, and there is no way to stop a
>> XeTeX run;
>
> Apart from noisy messages: did it also fail or was it just annoying?
>
> Mojca
It did work in the end, but it took several minutes at each run...
Best
Thomas
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: sometxt in mkiv
2008-09-07 19:42 ` Mojca Miklavec
2008-09-08 7:22 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
@ 2008-09-08 8:16 ` Hans Hagen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2008-09-08 8:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I was just wondering if this is a bug or if it's something that still
>> needs to be implemented: the example on p. 10 of Mojca's sometxt MyWay
>> works in mkii, yet in mkiv, it doesn't:
>>
>> \starttext
>> \startTeXtexts
>> \dorecurse{12}{\TeXtext{\recurselevel}{\recurselevel}}
>> \stopTeXtexts
>>
>> \startMPcode
>> numeric r; r = 1.5cm;
>> draw fullcircle scaled 2r;
>> for i=1 upto 12:
>> draw (origin--down) scaled 4pt shifted (0,r) rotated -30i;
>> label(sometxt(i), up scaled .75r rotated -30i);
>> endfor;
>> \stopMPcode
>> \stoptext
>>
>> in mkiv, I get no labels and the somewhat cryptic sentence "[do we
>> need TeXtexts in MkIV]" on my pdf. Anybody able to answer this or my
>> question?
>
> Honestly, I don't think that we need this exact functionality. In mkiv
> textext works perfectly well to achieve the same goal, you don't
> really need \sometxt or \TeXtext. The only question is: do we care
> about backward compatibility? I can also remove the example from MyWay
> or write that it's a bit obscure. It really is an obscure application.
>
> OK, I just neglected the fact that I do use that in the gnuplot module
> (which is not mkiv ready for two tiny and obscure reasons that could
> be fixed long ago). In case that I won't be drawing the graphs for
> thesis in excell, I'll try to fix the module. I don't think that any
> other sane person uses \TeXtext. (I don't, and module should be fixed
> anyway.)
i didn't implement TeXtext in mkiv because it was an kind of hack needed
to deal with many labels (either or not in loops) in a fast and
efficient way (as needed by gnuplot); as mojca mentioned, this is no
longer an issue, so i'd rather avoid introducing this hack again
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-09-09 17:23 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2008-09-07 15:52 sometxt in mkiv Thomas A. Schmitz
2008-09-07 23:32 ` Aditya Mahajan
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2008-09-06 11:15 Thomas A. Schmitz
2008-09-07 13:43 ` Aditya Mahajan
2008-09-07 19:42 ` Mojca Miklavec
2008-09-08 7:22 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2008-09-08 9:26 ` Hans Hagen
2008-09-08 18:43 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2008-09-09 15:07 ` Mojca Miklavec
2008-09-09 15:13 ` Mojca Miklavec
2008-09-09 17:23 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2008-09-08 8:16 ` Hans Hagen
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