From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/68910 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "R. Ermers" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: DocBook in ConTeXt - any new ideas? Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 11:57:55 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4DE77C02.50002@wxs.nl> <4DE7F098.2040408@wxs.nl> <4DE90BB7.4080401@wxs.nl> <90557B77-F070-48E0-90B7-6E180ED8A09A@hccnet.nl> <4DE9F5AB.2090500@wxs.nl> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1299378990==" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1307181492 24298 80.91.229.12 (4 Jun 2011 09:58:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 09:58:12 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sat Jun 04 11:58:06 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([195.12.62.10]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QSncL-00029q-PJ for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Jun 2011 11:58:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6E57CAD8A; Sat, 4 Jun 2011 11:58:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id bz28UVeIPzi8; Sat, 4 Jun 2011 11:58:01 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED16FCAD7F; Sat, 4 Jun 2011 11:58:00 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E8F9CAD7F for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2011 11:58:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id A0mpv03cQYpd for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2011 11:57:57 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from filter2-til.mf.surf.net (filter2-til.mf.surf.net [194.171.167.218]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6350CAD2E for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2011 11:57:57 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from cpsmtpb-ews09.kpnxchange.com (cpsmtpb-ews09.kpnxchange.com [213.75.39.14]) by filter2-til.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id p549vvio016551 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2011 11:57:57 +0200 Original-Received: from cpbrm-ews34.kpnxchange.com ([10.94.84.165]) by cpsmtpb-ews09.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 4 Jun 2011 11:57:57 +0200 Original-Received: from CPSMTPM-CMT101.kpnxchange.com ([195.121.3.17]) by cpbrm-ews34.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 4 Jun 2011 11:57:57 +0200 Original-Received: from imac-van-robert.lan ([77.168.85.243]) by CPSMTPM-CMT101.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.0.6002.18264); Sat, 4 Jun 2011 11:57:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4DE9F5AB.2090500@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jun 2011 09:57:56.0037 (UTC) FILETIME=[E09B0F50:01CC229D] X-RcptDomain: ntg.nl X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=213.75.39.14; country=NL; latitude=52.5000; longitude=5.7500; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.5000,5.7500&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0bEPJVVLO - 4d6f99e4a649 - 20110604 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 194.171.167.218 X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:68910 Archived-At: --===============1299378990== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6-309277612 --Apple-Mail-6-309277612 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Op 4 jun 2011, om 11:06 heeft Hans Hagen het volgende geschreven: > On 4-6-2011 10:21, R. Ermers wrote: >=20 >> Adding the prefix cals: to the tag names (thus making the file = invalid, which is contrary to the docbook philosophy), using the cals = table module and the directives is not enough, at least the cals tables = in my valid xml docbook document were never typeset. >=20 > can be any prefix (namespace) ... the code that implements it uses a = namespace in order to avoid a mixup >=20 >> With help from Aditya I managed to typeset a document which contains = merely a cals table. I then thought this was going to be the first step = to processing my xml file which contains a number of tables. But alas = .... >>=20 >> The tables in my document were skipped like any other unknown xml = tag. I must have done something wrong. But what? There were no replies = to my postings. In the end I felt silly for daring to posing a problem = other people apparently had no problems with whatsoever. >=20 > well, providing solutions for specific user cases depends on available = time etc ... even making a simple example ... >=20 >> So, if you should embark on this track, be aware that typesetting xml = is more complicated than a ConTeXt document, that the knowledge about it = is not widespread yet, that you rely on the happy few who do know, and = it may take a lot of time to find out things yourself. >=20 > sure, and eventually it will be covered by manuals (or test files in = the test suite -- actually there are some xml ones in there) ... there's = only so much you can expect for a free system so some patience is needed >=20 > ps. although a lot of help can be gotten from this list, the wiki etc, = users who want to do complex things (or workflows) cannot expect all = their problems to be solved here as we all have jobs to fulfill ... it = might help to make wiki pages and let others fill in the gaps >=20 Of course, I agree that typesetting a xml docbook in itself is a complex = matter. And yes, I read every single letter of the complex xml manuals. I also agree that people no doubt have many other things to do, = including myself. Anybody working with Context and TeX must bear in mind = that his problems will not be solved immediately, that knowledgeable = people will voluntarily look into questions and problems, depending on = their time and their interest in specific problems. However, on the other hand since docbook is a very well known and = therefore attractive standard, and most problems in xml can be described = quite straightforward. As a result the problem of typesetting cals = tables cannot be depicted as a 'specific user case'. After all, there is = a module cals tables, and it is expected to work. The problem was: how can I typeset a cals table with a minimal = installation? Comparable to: how do I typeset a header? What settings = are needed apart from the module? This should not be a 'complex' = problem. My conclusion remains that the knowledge on xml is not widespread, that = those who possess the knowledge do not always have time to help, and as = a result my problem was not solved. For the record: note that my problem was not of the type: how to discard = the nth line of a cals table? How to color the header of a cals table? = Or how to only typeset cals tables with id=3D"abc". Robert >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE > Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands > tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com > | www.pragma-pod.nl > ----------------------------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-6-309277612 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
On 4-6-2011 10:21, R. Ermers = wrote:

Adding the prefix cals: to the = tag names (thus making the file invalid, which is contrary to the = docbook philosophy), using the cals table module and the directives is = not enough, at least the cals tables in my valid xml docbook document = were never typeset.

can be any prefix (namespace) = ... the code that implements it uses a namespace in order to avoid a = mixup

With help from Aditya I managed = to typeset a document which contains merely a cals table. I then thought = this was going to be the first step to processing my xml file which = contains a number of tables. But alas ....

The tables in = my document were skipped like any other unknown xml tag. I must have = done something wrong. But what? There were no replies to my postings. In = the end I felt silly for daring to posing a problem other people = apparently had no problems with whatsoever.

well, = providing solutions for specific user cases depends on available time = etc ... even making a simple example ...

So, if you should embark on this track, be aware that = typesetting xml is more complicated than a ConTeXt document, that the = knowledge about it is not widespread yet, that you rely on the happy few = who do know, and it may take a lot of time to find out things = yourself.

sure, and eventually it will be covered by = manuals (or test files in the test suite -- actually there are some xml = ones in there) ... there's only so much you can expect for a free system = so some patience is needed

ps. although a lot of help can be = gotten from this list, the wiki etc, users who want to do complex things = (or workflows) cannot expect all their problems to be solved here as we = all have jobs to fulfill ... it might help to make wiki pages and let = others fill in the gaps


Of course, I agree that typesetting a xml docbook in itself is a = complex matter. And yes, I read every single letter of the complex xml = manuals.

I also agree that people no doubt have = many other things to do, including myself. Anybody working with = Context and TeX must bear in mind that his problems will not be solved = immediately, that knowledgeable people will voluntarily look into = questions and problems, depending on their time and their interest in = specific problems.

However, on the other = hand since docbook is a very well known and therefore attractive = standard, and most problems in xml can be described quite = straightforward. As a result the problem of typesetting cals tables = cannot be depicted as a 'specific user case'. After all, there is a = module cals tables, and it is expected to = work.

The problem was: how can I = typeset a cals table with a minimal installation? Comparable to: how do = I typeset a header? What settings are needed apart from the = module? This should not be a 'complex' = problem.

My conclusion remains that the = knowledge on xml is not widespread, that those who possess the knowledge = do not always have time to help, and as a result my problem was not = solved.

For the record: note that my problem = was not of the type: how to discard the nth line of a cals table? = How to color the header of a cals table? Or how = to only typeset cals tables with = id=3D"abc".

Robert



---------------------------------------------------= --------------
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =     Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
=             &n= bsp;Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
=    tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =        | www.pragma-pod.nl
---------------= --------------------------------------------------
<= /div>
= --Apple-Mail-6-309277612-- --===============1299378990== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============1299378990==--