setuplayout vs Indesign!

setuplayout vs Indesign!

[jbf]

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Severe Covid-19 restrictions locally have left me out on a limb unable 
to be side-byside with people who can set me on track for a few things! 
Hence the bombardment of questions, for which I apologise. But almost there!

The InDesign QC individual (who accepts my ConTeXt-produced pdfs) wants 
some tweaking to my layout, saying, in simple terms:/Odd/right pgs left 
margin should be 20mm and right margin 15mm; even/left pgs right margin 
20mm and left margin 15mm/.

I think the difficulty is that what InDesign calls margins might be 
termed a little differently in ConTeXt and I have no experience with 
InDesign.

My initial setup was as follows for a paper size defined as 
[width=140mm,height=216mm] double-sided setup (in other words a standard 
8.5"x5.5" book):

\setuplayout

[backspace=16mm,
     topspace=12mm,
     header=6mm,
     headerdistance=10mm,
     footerdistance=9mm,
     footer=8mm,
     width=fit,
     horoffset=12.7mm,
     location=middle,
     height=198mm,
     marking=on]

There was no mention of 'margins' as such in that layout, and the result 
is close to what is wanted but not quite. Do I solve the problem by 
adding in: leftmargin=20mm,
rightmargin=15mm,

or is it some other item I need to adjust to ensure the 20mm/15mm 
dimensions requested?

Julian




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Re: setuplayout vs Indesign!

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 26.08.2020 um 08:44 schrieb jbf <roma83537@gmail.com>:
> 
> Severe Covid-19 restrictions locally have left me out on a limb unable to be side-byside with people who can set me on track for a few things! Hence the bombardment of questions, for which I apologise. But almost there!
> 
> The InDesign QC individual (who accepts my ConTeXt-produced pdfs) wants some tweaking to my layout, saying, in simple terms: Odd/right pgs left margin should be 20mm and right margin 15mm; even/left pgs right margin 20mm and left margin 15mm.
> 
> I think the difficulty is that what InDesign calls margins might be termed a little differently in ConTeXt and I have no experience with InDesign.
> 
> My initial setup was as follows for a paper size defined as [width=140mm,height=216mm] double-sided setup (in other words a standard 8.5"x5.5" book):
> 
> \setuplayout
> 
> [backspace=16mm,
>     topspace=12mm, 
>     header=6mm,
>     headerdistance=10mm,
>     footerdistance=9mm,
>     footer=8mm,
>     width=fit,
>     horoffset=12.7mm,
>     location=middle, 
>     height=198mm, 
>     marking=on]
> 
> There was no mention of 'margins' as such in that layout, and the result is close to what is wanted but not quite. Do I solve the problem by adding in: leftmargin=20mm,
> rightmargin=15mm,
> 
> or is it some other item I need to adjust to ensure the 20mm/15mm dimensions requested?

If you don’t need marginals, your left margin is backspace, right margin is: paper width - width - backspace, i.e. for A4:

\setuplayout[
  backspace=20mm,
  width=175mm
]
\setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided] % mirror right and left pages


See also https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout

Hraban
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Re: setuplayout vs Indesign!

[jbf]

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Thank you. Let's see if the Quality Control person is convinced by what 
she gets with the suggested measurements.

I usually set things up 'as if' they would be on A4, in this case, 
\setuppapersize[ACN][A4] (ACN being the name I give to the 140x216mm 
book in question).

And yes, I have looked carefully at the 'Layout' section of 
Contextgarden, but the difficulty always is marrying its terminology 
with what someone wants who deals only with InDesign. And that causes 
confusion (for me, at least). But it certainly helps me to know that 
'/your left margin is backspace/', since I had been presuming that 
'leftmargin' meant left margin!

Maybe, one of these days, someone with experience in both ConTeXt and 
InDesign (since InDesign is used by very many commercial publishers, but 
I am trying to convince one of them of the value of ConTeXt) could offer 
a comparison of the layout terminology/measurements/requirements for 
both. I for one would find that very helpful.

Julian

On 26/8/20 6:33 pm, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>
>> Am 26.08.2020 um 08:44 schrieb jbf <roma83537@gmail.com>:
>>
>> Severe Covid-19 restrictions locally have left me out on a limb unable to be side-byside with people who can set me on track for a few things! Hence the bombardment of questions, for which I apologise. But almost there!
>>
>> The InDesign QC individual (who accepts my ConTeXt-produced pdfs) wants some tweaking to my layout, saying, in simple terms: Odd/right pgs left margin should be 20mm and right margin 15mm; even/left pgs right margin 20mm and left margin 15mm.
>>
>> I think the difficulty is that what InDesign calls margins might be termed a little differently in ConTeXt and I have no experience with InDesign.
>>
>> My initial setup was as follows for a paper size defined as [width=140mm,height=216mm] double-sided setup (in other words a standard 8.5"x5.5" book):
>>
>> \setuplayout
>>
>> [backspace=16mm,
>>      topspace=12mm,
>>      header=6mm,
>>      headerdistance=10mm,
>>      footerdistance=9mm,
>>      footer=8mm,
>>      width=fit,
>>      horoffset=12.7mm,
>>      location=middle,
>>      height=198mm,
>>      marking=on]
>>
>> There was no mention of 'margins' as such in that layout, and the result is close to what is wanted but not quite. Do I solve the problem by adding in: leftmargin=20mm,
>> rightmargin=15mm,
>>
>> or is it some other item I need to adjust to ensure the 20mm/15mm dimensions requested?
> If you don’t need marginals, your left margin is backspace, right margin is: paper width - width - backspace, i.e. for A4:
>
> \setuplayout[
>    backspace=20mm,
>    width=175mm
> ]
> \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided] % mirror right and left pages
>
>
> See also https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout
>
> Hraban
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: setuplayout vs Indesign!

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 8/26/20 12:13 PM, jbf wrote:
> [...]
> Maybe, one of these days, someone with experience in both ConTeXt and
> InDesign (since InDesign is used by very many commercial publishers, but
> I am trying to convince one of them of the value of ConTeXt) could offer
> a comparison of the layout terminology/measurements/requirements for
> both. I for one would find that very helpful.

Hi Julian,

https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout#Typesetting_areas contains a
graphical description of the areas and
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout#Table_of_Parameters contains a
simple explanation.

I wonder whether this might help you.

Sorry, but I’m afraid I never used InDesign.

Just in case it helps,

Pablo
--
http://www.ousia.tk
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: setuplayout vs Indesign!

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 26.08.2020 um 12:13 schrieb jbf <roma83537@gmail.com>:
> 
> Thank you. Let's see if the Quality Control person is convinced by what she gets with the suggested measurements. 
> 
> I usually set things up 'as if' they would be on A4, in this case, \setuppapersize[ACN][A4] (ACN being the name I give to the 140x216mm book in question).
> 
> And yes, I have looked carefully at the 'Layout' section of Contextgarden, but the difficulty always is marrying its terminology with what someone wants who deals only with InDesign. And that causes confusion (for me, at least). But it certainly helps me to know that 'your left margin is backspace', since I had been presuming that 'leftmargin' meant left margin!
> 
> Maybe, one of these days, someone with experience in both ConTeXt and InDesign (since InDesign is used by very many commercial publishers, but I am trying to convince one of them of the value of ConTeXt) could offer a comparison of the layout terminology/measurements/requirements for both. I for one would find that very helpful.

While I was a long time user of InDesign (2.0 to CS 5.5), and QuarkXPress before, I don’t use it any more, my old copy doesn’t run any more on my current MacOS. Nowadays I use Serif’s Affinity Publisher/Designer for graphical layout jobs (also not free and not a full replacement, but good enough if you know how to work around the quirks, and much cheaper).

The terms and measures of graphical layout programs aren’t directly translatable to TeX since the concepts are just too different. Even the pt is different.

Hraban


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Re: setuplayout vs Indesign!

[Wolfgang Schuster]

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Pablo Rodriguez schrieb am 26.08.2020 um 19:39:
> On 8/26/20 12:13 PM, jbf wrote:
>> [...]
>> Maybe, one of these days, someone with experience in both ConTeXt and
>> InDesign (since InDesign is used by very many commercial publishers, but
>> I am trying to convince one of them of the value of ConTeXt) could offer
>> a comparison of the layout terminology/measurements/requirements for
>> both. I for one would find that very helpful.
> Hi Julian,
>
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout#Typesetting_areas contains a
> graphical description of the areas and

I don't think the graphic is very useful to recreate a layout because 
there are
too many areas which are unimportant for the margins on each side.

A simpler step by step introduction where you can see leftmargin
doesn't matter for the layout is the better way (see attachment).

Wolfgang


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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: setuplayout vs Indesign!

[jbf]

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That is very helpful, and just what I needed. Thank you

Julian

On 27/8/20 9:16 pm, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Pablo Rodriguez schrieb am 26.08.2020 um 19:39:
>> On 8/26/20 12:13 PM, jbf wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> Maybe, one of these days, someone with experience in both ConTeXt and
>>> InDesign (since InDesign is used by very many commercial publishers, 
>>> but
>>> I am trying to convince one of them of the value of ConTeXt) could 
>>> offer
>>> a comparison of the layout terminology/measurements/requirements for
>>> both. I for one would find that very helpful.
>> Hi Julian,
>>
>> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout#Typesetting_areas contains a
>> graphical description of the areas and
>
> I don't think the graphic is very useful to recreate a layout because 
> there are
> too many areas which are unimportant for the margins on each side.
>
> A simpler step by step introduction where you can see leftmargin
> doesn't matter for the layout is the better way (see attachment).
>
> Wolfgang
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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___________________________________________________________________________________