Too much spacing in math mode between 'f' and 'l' (MkIV only)

Too much spacing in math mode between 'f' and 'l' (MkIV only)

[Vedran Miletić]

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Hi,

please consider this:

\starttext
\math{flow_1}
\stoptext

When compiled with MkIV, space between "f" and "l" is quite big and doesn't
look very good. Is it a bug?

Regards,

Vedran Miletić

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Re: Too much spacing in math mode between 'f' and 'l' (MkIV only)

[Aditya Mahajan]

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On Tue, 3 May 2011, Vedran Miletić wrote:

> Hi,
>
> please consider this:
>
> \starttext
> \math{flow_1}
> \stoptext
>
> When compiled with MkIV, space between "f" and "l" is quite big and doesn't
> look very good. Is it a bug?

Definitely looks like a bug in italic correction. In principle, the 
spacing with virtual fonts (mkiv) should be the same as type 1 fonts 
(mkii).

But I agree with Severin that you should not be using \math{flow_1} to 
represent the first flow. I hope that this example was for illustrating 
the spacing bug.

Aditya

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Re: Too much spacing in math mode between 'f' and 'l' (MkIV only)

[Vedran Miletić]

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2011/5/4 Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu>

> On Tue, 3 May 2011, Vedran Miletić wrote:
>
>  Hi,
>>
>> please consider this:
>>
>> \starttext
>> \math{flow_1}
>> \stoptext
>>
>> When compiled with MkIV, space between "f" and "l" is quite big and
>> doesn't
>> look very good. Is it a bug?
>>
>
> Definitely looks like a bug in italic correction. In principle, the spacing
> with virtual fonts (mkiv) should be the same as type 1 fonts (mkii).
>

Thanks for clarification.


>
> But I agree with Severin that you should not be using \math{flow_1} to
> represent the first flow. I hope that this example was for illustrating the
> spacing bug.
>

Do you suggest I follow Severin's solution?

Regards,

Vedran Miletić

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Re: Too much spacing in math mode between 'f' and 'l' (MkIV only)

[Vedran Miletić]

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Dana 4. svibnja 2011. 16:30 Vedran Miletić <rivanvx@gmail.com> je
napisao/la:

> 2011/5/4 Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu>
>
>>  On Tue, 3 May 2011, Vedran Miletić wrote:
>>
>>  Hi,
>>>
>>> please consider this:
>>>
>>> \starttext
>>> \math{flow_1}
>>> \stoptext
>>>
>>> When compiled with MkIV, space between "f" and "l" is quite big and
>>> doesn't
>>> look very good. Is it a bug?
>>>
>>
>> Definitely looks like a bug in italic correction. In principle, the
>> spacing with virtual fonts (mkiv) should be the same as type 1 fonts (mkii).
>>
>
> Thanks for clarification.
>

Just curious: is this ConTeXt or LuaTeX bug?

Vedran Miletić

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Re: Too much spacing in math mode between 'f' and 'l' (MkIV only)

[Aditya Mahajan]

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On Fri, 6 May 2011, Vedran Miletić wrote:

> Dana 4. svibnja 2011. 16:30 Vedran Miletić <rivanvx@gmail.com> je
> napisao/la:
>
>> 2011/5/4 Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu>
>>
>>>  On Tue, 3 May 2011, Vedran Miletić wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi,
>>>>
>>>> please consider this:
>>>>
>>>> \starttext
>>>> \math{flow_1}
>>>> \stoptext
>>>>
>>>> When compiled with MkIV, space between "f" and "l" is quite big and
>>>> doesn't
>>>> look very good. Is it a bug?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Definitely looks like a bug in italic correction. In principle, the
>>> spacing with virtual fonts (mkiv) should be the same as type 1 fonts (mkii).
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for clarification.
>>
>
> Just curious: is this ConTeXt or LuaTeX bug?

I am guessing that this is a context bug in creating a virtual font or 
loading a virtual font. But I don't know how to debug this.

Hans and Taco, do you have any idea? Why is the inter-letter spacing 
different in MkII and MkIV.

Aditya

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Re: Too much spacing in math mode between 'f' and 'l' (MkIV only)

[Hans Hagen]

On 6-5-2011 10:57, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
> On Fri, 6 May 2011, Vedran Miletić wrote:
>
>> Dana 4. svibnja 2011. 16:30 Vedran Miletić <rivanvx@gmail.com> je
>> napisao/la:
>>
>>> 2011/5/4 Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 3 May 2011, Vedran Miletić wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> please consider this:
>>>>>
>>>>> \starttext
>>>>> \math{flow_1}
>>>>> \stoptext
>>>>>
>>>>> When compiled with MkIV, space between "f" and "l" is quite big and
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>> look very good. Is it a bug?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Definitely looks like a bug in italic correction. In principle, the
>>>> spacing with virtual fonts (mkiv) should be the same as type 1 fonts
>>>> (mkii).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for clarification.
>>>
>>
>> Just curious: is this ConTeXt or LuaTeX bug?
>
> I am guessing that this is a context bug in creating a virtual font or
> loading a virtual font. But I don't know how to debug this.
>
> Hans and Taco, do you have any idea? Why is the inter-letter spacing
> different in MkII and MkIV.

In math-vfu we have:

                             if italic then
                                 width = width + italic
                             end

And that is for a reason. I might be a left over from when the math 
engine was redone. So I need input from Taco.

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Too much spacing in math mode between 'f' and 'l' (MkIV only)

[Taco Hoekwater]

On 05/07/2011 01:26 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>
>> Hans and Taco, do you have any idea? Why is the inter-letter spacing
>> different in MkII and MkIV.
>
> In math-vfu we have:
>
> if italic then
> width = width + italic
> end
>
> And that is for a reason. I might be a left over from when the math
> engine was redone. So I need input from Taco.

I suspect that was from an earlier, bad interpretation of the opentype
math specification and that it can go away. But: much safer is to have
a big test file first using various (variable|opname) + other char
combinations.

Best wishes,

Taco
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Re: Too much spacing in math mode between 'f' and 'l' (MkIV only)

[Hans Hagen]

On 8-5-2011 1:22, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> On 05/07/2011 01:26 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>>
>>> Hans and Taco, do you have any idea? Why is the inter-letter spacing
>>> different in MkII and MkIV.
>>
>> In math-vfu we have:
>>
>> if italic then
>> width = width + italic
>> end
>>
>> And that is for a reason. I might be a left over from when the math
>> engine was redone. So I need input from Taco.
>
> I suspect that was from an earlier, bad interpretation of the opentype
> math specification and that it can go away. But: much safer is to have
> a big test file first using various (variable|opname) + other char
> combinations.

ok, for now i'll just comment that code

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Too much spacing in math mode between 'f' and 'l' (MkIV only)

[S Barmeier]

> 
> Hi,
> 
> please consider this:
> 
> \starttext
> \math{flow_1}
> \stoptext
> 
> When compiled with MkIV, space between "f" and "l" is quite big and doesn't
> look very good. Is it a bug?
> 
Spacing between letters when treated as individual variables is always a
bit fishy. In this case the math mode suppresses the fl ligature, which
seems to be present in the font, whence the spacing is off. Something like

\starttext
\math{{\it flow}_1}
\stoptext

will help ConTeXt treat it as text and improve the spacing (and in this
case make use of the fl ligature).

Define \def\flow{\text{\it flow}} if you just want to say

\starttext
\math{\flow_1}
\stoptext

Severin
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