* long quotation problem
@ 2005-10-21 15:03 Alan Bowen
2005-10-21 16:56 ` Peter Rolf
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Alan Bowen @ 2005-10-21 15:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
I have been adapting some of my old Plain TeX macros to ConTeXt,
using hints and suggestions from the ConTeXt wiki. What I have thus
far works exactly as desired in the body text, but fails in the
footnotes. I have appended some encoded text that shows the problem.
Note the poor line-spacing and (unwanted) indentation in the first
line of the quotation in the footnote: this quotation should look the
same as the one in the body text.
I realize that I could fix this simply by inserting a \noindent in
the footnote, for instance. But I am trying to reduce the amount of
thinking an coder has to do, and so would really like to define the
startextract..\stopextract environment more effectively.
Any pointers or suggestions for fixing this will be gratefully received.
Cheers, Alan
****************************
% Paragraph setup
\indenting[big,yes]
\setupwhitespace[medium]
\setupparagraphs[tolerance=verystrict]
%Footnote setup
\setupfootnotes[conversion=numbers,
way=bytext,location=page,rule=on,bodyfont=10.1pt,style=normal]
\setupfootnotes[indenting=yes]
\setupfootnotes[interaction=yes]
\setupnotedefinition[footnote][indenting={big,yes}]
% Extract setup
\definestartstop[extract][
before={\godown[0.10pc]
\indenting[next]
\setupnarrower[left=1.5pc,right=1.5pc]
\startnarrower[left,right]},
after={\stopnarrower
\godown[0.25pc]
\indenting[yes]}]
\starttext
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Morbi
commodo, ipsum sed pharetra gravida, orci magna rhoncus neque, id
pulvinar odio lorem non turpis. Nullam sit amet enim. Suspendisse id
velit vitae ligula volutpat condimentum. Aliquam erat volutpat. Sed
quis velit.
\startextract
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Morbi
commodo, ipsum sed pharetra gravida, orci magna rhoncus neque, id
pulvinar odio lorem non turpis.
Nullam sit amet enim. Suspendisse id velit vitae ligula volutpat
condimentum. Aliquam erat volutpat. Sed quis velit. Nulla facilisi.
Nulla libero. Vivamus pharetra posuere sapien.
\stopextract
\noindent Nam consectetuer. Sed aliquam, nunc eget euismod
ullamcorper, lectus nunc ullamcorper orci, fermentum bibendum enim
nibh eget ipsum. Donec porttitor ligula eu dolor. Maecenas vitae
nulla consequat libero cursus venenatis. Nam magna enim, accumsan eu,
blandit sed, blandit a, eros.%
\footnote{Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit.
Morbi commodo, ipsum sed pharetra gravida, orci magna rhoncus neque,
id pulvinar odio lorem non turpis. Nullam sit amet enim.%
\startextract
Suspendisse id velit vitae ligula volutpat condimentum. Aliquam erat
volutpat. Sed quis velit. Nulla facilisi. Nulla libero. Vivamus
pharetra posuere sapien.
Nam consectetuer. Sed aliquam, nunc eget euismod ullamcorper, lectus
nunc ullamcorper orci, fermentum bibendum enim nibh eget ipsum. Donec
porttitor ligula eu dolor.
\stopextract
\noindent Maecenas vitae nulla consequat libero cursus venenatis. Nam
magna enim, accumsan eu, blandit sed, blandit a, eros.}\ %
Aliquam erat volutpat. Sed quis velit. Nulla facilisi. Nulla libero.
Vivamus pharetra posuere sapien. Nam consectetuer. Sed aliquam, nunc
eget euismod ullamcorper, lectus nunc ullamcorper orci, fermentum
bibendum enim nibh eget ipsum. Donec porttitor ligula eu dolor.
Maecenas vitae nulla consequat libero cursus venenatis. Nam magna
enim, accumsan eu, blandit sed, blandit a, eros.
\stoptext
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: long quotation problem
2005-10-21 15:03 long quotation problem Alan Bowen
@ 2005-10-21 16:56 ` Peter Rolf
2005-10-21 17:40 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2005-10-21 17:01 ` Willi Egger
2005-10-21 17:35 ` Hans Hagen Test
2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Peter Rolf @ 2005-10-21 16:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hi Alan,
please, *no* more latin examples. Since school I have an allergy against
it ;)
Alan Bowen wrote:
> I have been adapting some of my old Plain TeX macros to ConTeXt, using
> hints and suggestions from the ConTeXt wiki. What I have thus far works
> exactly as desired in the body text, but fails in the footnotes. I have
> appended some encoded text that shows the problem. Note the poor
> line-spacing and (unwanted) indentation in the first line of the
> quotation in the footnote: this quotation should look the same as the
> one in the body text.
>
> I realize that I could fix this simply by inserting a \noindent in the
> footnote, for instance. But I am trying to reduce the amount of
> thinking an coder has to do, and so would really like to define the
> startextract..\stopextract environment more effectively.
>
> Any pointers or suggestions for fixing this will be gratefully received.
>
> Cheers, Alan
>
> ****************************
>
> % Paragraph setup
> \indenting[big,yes]
> \setupwhitespace[medium]
> \setupparagraphs[tolerance=verystrict]
>
> %Footnote setup
> \setupfootnotes[conversion=numbers,
> way=bytext,location=page,rule=on,bodyfont=10.1pt,style=normal]
> \setupfootnotes[indenting=yes]
> \setupfootnotes[interaction=yes]
> \setupnotedefinition[footnote][indenting={big,yes}]
>
> % Extract setup
> \definestartstop[extract][
> before={\godown[0.10pc]
^^^^
\blank[0.25pc,force] % 0.10pc is not enough
> \indenting[next]
^^^^
% delete this and insert a \noindent at the end
> \setupnarrower[left=1.5pc,right=1.5pc]
> \startnarrower[left,right]
\noindent},
> after={\stopnarrower
> \godown[0.25pc]
^^^^
\blank[0.25pc,force]
> \indenting[yes]}]
^^^^
\noindent (and a global \indenting[yes])
You can remove the \noindent from your main text now.
>
Don't know, if this is exactly what you want, but it look nice.
Greetings,
Peter
> \starttext
>
> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Morbi
> commodo, ipsum sed pharetra gravida, orci magna rhoncus neque, id
> pulvinar odio lorem non turpis. Nullam sit amet enim. Suspendisse id
> velit vitae ligula volutpat condimentum. Aliquam erat volutpat. Sed
> quis velit.
> \startextract
> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Morbi
> commodo, ipsum sed pharetra gravida, orci magna rhoncus neque, id
> pulvinar odio lorem non turpis.
>
> Nullam sit amet enim. Suspendisse id velit vitae ligula volutpat
> condimentum. Aliquam erat volutpat. Sed quis velit. Nulla facilisi.
> Nulla libero. Vivamus pharetra posuere sapien.
> \stopextract
> \noindent Nam consectetuer. Sed aliquam, nunc eget euismod ullamcorper,
> lectus nunc ullamcorper orci, fermentum bibendum enim nibh eget ipsum.
> Donec porttitor ligula eu dolor. Maecenas vitae nulla consequat libero
> cursus venenatis. Nam magna enim, accumsan eu, blandit sed, blandit a,
> eros.%
> \footnote{Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit.
> Morbi commodo, ipsum sed pharetra gravida, orci magna rhoncus neque, id
> pulvinar odio lorem non turpis. Nullam sit amet enim.%
> \startextract
> Suspendisse id velit vitae ligula volutpat condimentum. Aliquam erat
> volutpat. Sed quis velit. Nulla facilisi. Nulla libero. Vivamus
> pharetra posuere sapien.
>
> Nam consectetuer. Sed aliquam, nunc eget euismod ullamcorper, lectus
> nunc ullamcorper orci, fermentum bibendum enim nibh eget ipsum. Donec
> porttitor ligula eu dolor.
> \stopextract
> \noindent Maecenas vitae nulla consequat libero cursus venenatis. Nam
> magna enim, accumsan eu, blandit sed, blandit a, eros.}\ %
> Aliquam erat volutpat. Sed quis velit. Nulla facilisi. Nulla libero.
> Vivamus pharetra posuere sapien. Nam consectetuer. Sed aliquam, nunc
> eget euismod ullamcorper, lectus nunc ullamcorper orci, fermentum
> bibendum enim nibh eget ipsum. Donec porttitor ligula eu dolor.
> Maecenas vitae nulla consequat libero cursus venenatis. Nam magna enim,
> accumsan eu, blandit sed, blandit a, eros.
> \stoptext
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: long quotation problem
2005-10-21 15:03 long quotation problem Alan Bowen
2005-10-21 16:56 ` Peter Rolf
@ 2005-10-21 17:01 ` Willi Egger
2005-10-21 17:33 ` Hans Hagen Test
2005-10-21 17:35 ` Hans Hagen Test
2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Willi Egger @ 2005-10-21 17:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hi Alan,
I tried your code. I made the extract to be typeset in red.- Indeed a
poor spacing.
I withdrew the \godown[0.10pc]. The result looked fine to me. Then I
replaced the \godown by \blank[halfline], the result was again o.k.
Finally the \godown[0.10pc] was replaced with \godown[12pt] and the
result looks o.k. to me. - So may be that there is a problem with your
unit pc.
Willi
Alan Bowen wrote:
> I have been adapting some of my old Plain TeX macros to ConTeXt,
> using hints and suggestions from the ConTeXt wiki. What I have thus
> far works exactly as desired in the body text, but fails in the
> footnotes. I have appended some encoded text that shows the problem.
> Note the poor line-spacing and (unwanted) indentation in the first
> line of the quotation in the footnote: this quotation should look the
> same as the one in the body text.
>
> I realize that I could fix this simply by inserting a \noindent in
> the footnote, for instance. But I am trying to reduce the amount of
> thinking an coder has to do, and so would really like to define the
> startextract..\stopextract environment more effectively.
>
> Any pointers or suggestions for fixing this will be gratefully received.
>
> Cheers, Alan
>
> ****************************
>
> % Paragraph setup
> \indenting[big,yes]
> \setupwhitespace[medium]
> \setupparagraphs[tolerance=verystrict]
>
> %Footnote setup
> \setupfootnotes[conversion=numbers,
> way=bytext,location=page,rule=on,bodyfont=10.1pt,style=normal]
> \setupfootnotes[indenting=yes]
> \setupfootnotes[interaction=yes]
> \setupnotedefinition[footnote][indenting={big,yes}]
>
> % Extract setup
> \definestartstop[extract][
> before={\godown[0.10pc]
> \indenting[next]
> \setupnarrower[left=1.5pc,right=1.5pc]
> \startnarrower[left,right]},
> after={\stopnarrower
> \godown[0.25pc]
> \indenting[yes]}]
>
> \starttext
>
> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Morbi
> commodo, ipsum sed pharetra gravida, orci magna rhoncus neque, id
> pulvinar odio lorem non turpis. Nullam sit amet enim. Suspendisse id
> velit vitae ligula volutpat condimentum. Aliquam erat volutpat. Sed
> quis velit.
> \startextract
> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Morbi
> commodo, ipsum sed pharetra gravida, orci magna rhoncus neque, id
> pulvinar odio lorem non turpis.
>
> Nullam sit amet enim. Suspendisse id velit vitae ligula volutpat
> condimentum. Aliquam erat volutpat. Sed quis velit. Nulla facilisi.
> Nulla libero. Vivamus pharetra posuere sapien.
> \stopextract
> \noindent Nam consectetuer. Sed aliquam, nunc eget euismod
> ullamcorper, lectus nunc ullamcorper orci, fermentum bibendum enim
> nibh eget ipsum. Donec porttitor ligula eu dolor. Maecenas vitae
> nulla consequat libero cursus venenatis. Nam magna enim, accumsan eu,
> blandit sed, blandit a, eros.%
> \footnote{Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit.
> Morbi commodo, ipsum sed pharetra gravida, orci magna rhoncus neque,
> id pulvinar odio lorem non turpis. Nullam sit amet enim.%
> \startextract
> Suspendisse id velit vitae ligula volutpat condimentum. Aliquam erat
> volutpat. Sed quis velit. Nulla facilisi. Nulla libero. Vivamus
> pharetra posuere sapien.
>
> Nam consectetuer. Sed aliquam, nunc eget euismod ullamcorper, lectus
> nunc ullamcorper orci, fermentum bibendum enim nibh eget ipsum. Donec
> porttitor ligula eu dolor.
> \stopextract
> \noindent Maecenas vitae nulla consequat libero cursus venenatis. Nam
> magna enim, accumsan eu, blandit sed, blandit a, eros.}\ %
> Aliquam erat volutpat. Sed quis velit. Nulla facilisi. Nulla libero.
> Vivamus pharetra posuere sapien. Nam consectetuer. Sed aliquam, nunc
> eget euismod ullamcorper, lectus nunc ullamcorper orci, fermentum
> bibendum enim nibh eget ipsum. Donec porttitor ligula eu dolor.
> Maecenas vitae nulla consequat libero cursus venenatis. Nam magna
> enim, accumsan eu, blandit sed, blandit a, eros.
> \stoptext
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: long quotation problem
2005-10-21 17:01 ` Willi Egger
@ 2005-10-21 17:33 ` Hans Hagen Test
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen Test @ 2005-10-21 17:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
Willi Egger wrote:
> Hi Alan,
>
> I tried your code. I made the extract to be typeset in red.- Indeed a
> poor spacing.
> I withdrew the \godown[0.10pc]. The result looked fine to me. Then I
> replaced the \godown by \blank[halfline], the result was again o.k.
> Finally the \godown[0.10pc] was replaced with \godown[12pt] and the
> result looks o.k. to me. - So may be that there is a problem with your
> unit pc.
indeed such small units start interfering with depth and interlinespacing
Hans
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: long quotation problem
2005-10-21 15:03 long quotation problem Alan Bowen
2005-10-21 16:56 ` Peter Rolf
2005-10-21 17:01 ` Willi Egger
@ 2005-10-21 17:35 ` Hans Hagen Test
2005-10-21 19:49 ` Alan Bowen
2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen Test @ 2005-10-21 17:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
Alan Bowen wrote:
> I have been adapting some of my old Plain TeX macros to ConTeXt,
> using hints and suggestions from the ConTeXt wiki. What I have thus
> far works exactly as desired in the body text, but fails in the
> footnotes. I have appended some encoded text that shows the problem.
> Note the poor line-spacing and (unwanted) indentation in the first
> line of the quotation in the footnote: this quotation should look the
> same as the one in the body text.
>
> I realize that I could fix this simply by inserting a \noindent in
> the footnote, for instance. But I am trying to reduce the amount of
> thinking an coder has to do, and so would really like to define the
> startextract..\stopextract environment more effectively.
don't use \godown, use \blank since it is more clever in accumulating
cq. handling vertical spaces; also,
\defineblank[footnotedistance][.1pc]
and then using
\blank[footnotedistance]
makes the thing configurable (one can redefine the spacing outside the
macro)
Hans
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: long quotation problem
2005-10-21 16:56 ` Peter Rolf
@ 2005-10-21 17:40 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2005-10-21 18:04 ` Peter Rolf
2005-10-21 18:39 ` Alan Bowen
0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Thomas A. Schmitz @ 2005-10-21 17:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hey, please don't take the famous "lorem ipsum" for Latin, or those
knowing Latin will be offended... This is just random gibberish
looking slightly Latin :-)
Thomas
On Oct 21, 2005, at 6:56 PM, Peter Rolf wrote:
> please, *no* more latin examples.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: long quotation problem
2005-10-21 17:40 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
@ 2005-10-21 18:04 ` Peter Rolf
2005-10-21 18:39 ` Alan Bowen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Peter Rolf @ 2005-10-21 18:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> Hey, please don't take the famous "lorem ipsum" for Latin, or those
> knowing Latin will be offended... This is just random gibberish looking
> slightly Latin :-)
>
Oeps. Now I know why I didn't get the "Latinum" :)
Peter
> Thomas
>
> On Oct 21, 2005, at 6:56 PM, Peter Rolf wrote:
>
>> please, *no* more latin examples.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: long quotation problem
2005-10-21 17:40 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2005-10-21 18:04 ` Peter Rolf
@ 2005-10-21 18:39 ` Alan Bowen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Alan Bowen @ 2005-10-21 18:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
Among printers this Latinate gibberish (which was “taken” from
Cicero) was known as “greeked text” or as “printers’ Greek”—which is
really nonsense and yet another reason not to pay attention to it!
Alan
On Oct 21, 2005, at 1:40 PM, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> Hey, please don't take the famous "lorem ipsum" for Latin, or those
> knowing Latin will be offended... This is just random gibberish
> looking slightly Latin :-)
>
> Thomas
>
> On Oct 21, 2005, at 6:56 PM, Peter Rolf wrote:
>
>
>> please, *no* more latin examples.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: long quotation problem
2005-10-21 17:35 ` Hans Hagen Test
@ 2005-10-21 19:49 ` Alan Bowen
2005-11-09 12:30 ` Hans Hagen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Alan Bowen @ 2005-10-21 19:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
Peter, Willi, and Hans—
I have incorporated your suggestions for getting better looking long
quotations, and all is now working very well indeed. Many thanks to
you all.
Alan
PS For the record, here is what I have now—just in case someone down
the line runs into the same problem. A.
%//////////////// Extracts or Long
Quotations //////////////////////////
%%%% In body text
\defineblank[extractdistance][3pt]
\definestartstop[extract][
before={ \blank[extractdistance,force]
\setupnarrower[left=1.5pc,right=1.5pc]
\startnarrower[left,right]
\noindent},
after={\stopnarrower
\blank[extractdistance,force]
\indenting[yes]}]
%%%%% In footnotes
\defineblank[footenoteextractdistance][2.7pt]
\definestartstop[fnextract][
before={ \blank[footenoteextractdistance,force]
\setupnarrower[left=1.5pc,right=1.5pc]
\startnarrower[left,right]
\noindent},
after={\stopnarrower
\blank[footenoteextractdistance,force]
\indenting[yes]}]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: long quotation problem
2005-10-21 19:49 ` Alan Bowen
@ 2005-11-09 12:30 ` Hans Hagen
2005-11-09 15:27 ` Alan Bowen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Hans Hagen @ 2005-11-09 12:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
Alan Bowen wrote:
> Peter, Willi, and Hans�
>
> I have incorporated your suggestions for getting better looking long
> quotations, and all is now working very well indeed. Many thanks to
> you all.
>
> Alan
>
> PS For the record, here is what I have now�just in case someone down
> the line runs into the same problem. A.
>
> %//////////////// Extracts or Long Quotations
> //////////////////////////
>
> %%%% In body text
>
> \defineblank[extractdistance][3pt]
>
> \definestartstop[extract][
> before={ \blank[extractdistance,force]
> \setupnarrower[left=1.5pc,right=1.5pc]
> \startnarrower[left,right]
> \noindent},
> after={\stopnarrower
> \blank[extractdistance,force]
> \indenting[yes]}]
>
> %%%%% In footnotes
>
> \defineblank[footenoteextractdistance][2.7pt]
>
> \definestartstop[fnextract][
> before={ \blank[footenoteextractdistance,force]
> \setupnarrower[left=1.5pc,right=1.5pc]
> \startnarrower[left,right]
> \noindent},
> after={\stopnarrower
> \blank[footenoteextractdistance,force]
> \indenting[yes]}]
was this wiki'd?
Hans
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: long quotation problem
2005-11-09 12:30 ` Hans Hagen
@ 2005-11-09 15:27 ` Alan Bowen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Alan Bowen @ 2005-11-09 15:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hans—
I have not wiki-ed anything before, so this was a first try and I
think it worked. At least it shows up on my user page.
Best, Alan
On Nov 9, 2005, at 7:30 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> Alan Bowen wrote:
>
>> Peter, Willi, and Hans�
>>
>> I have incorporated your suggestions for getting better looking
>> long quotations, and all is now working very well indeed. Many
>> thanks to you all.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> PS For the record, here is what I have now�just in case someone
>> down the line runs into the same problem. A.
>>
>> %//////////////// Extracts or Long
>> Quotations //////////////////////////
>>
>> %%%% In body text
>>
>> \defineblank[extractdistance][3pt]
>>
>> \definestartstop[extract][
>> before={ \blank[extractdistance,force]
>> \setupnarrower[left=1.5pc,right=1.5pc]
>> \startnarrower[left,right]
>> \noindent},
>> after={\stopnarrower
>> \blank[extractdistance,force]
>> \indenting[yes]}]
>>
>> %%%%% In footnotes
>>
>> \defineblank[footenoteextractdistance][2.7pt]
>>
>> \definestartstop[fnextract][
>> before={ \blank[footenoteextractdistance,force]
>> \setupnarrower[left=1.5pc,right=1.5pc]
>> \startnarrower[left,right]
>> \noindent},
>> after={\stopnarrower
>> \blank[footenoteextractdistance,force]
>> \indenting[yes]}]
>
> was this wiki'd?
>
> Hans
> _______________________________________________
> ntg-context mailing list
> ntg-context@ntg.nl
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2005-11-09 15:27 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2005-10-21 15:03 long quotation problem Alan Bowen
2005-10-21 16:56 ` Peter Rolf
2005-10-21 17:40 ` Thomas A. Schmitz
2005-10-21 18:04 ` Peter Rolf
2005-10-21 18:39 ` Alan Bowen
2005-10-21 17:01 ` Willi Egger
2005-10-21 17:33 ` Hans Hagen Test
2005-10-21 17:35 ` Hans Hagen Test
2005-10-21 19:49 ` Alan Bowen
2005-11-09 12:30 ` Hans Hagen
2005-11-09 15:27 ` Alan Bowen
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