RE: fonts fonts and fonts

RE: fonts fonts and fonts

[White, George]

fonts:

We use Y&Y's Lucida family for one series of reports. In the past we have
used 
mathtime for documents that specified Times-Roman for the body, but next
time 
we will probably want to use the txr fonts.  Since we are a government
institution,
some documents that become part of the permanent record must use only the
Adobe base
fonts to generate PDF (the theory being that someone will be able to figure
out how 
print such files in in 200 years -- if we can't avoid using a symbol that
isn't in 
the base fonts we use the outline path).  

We sometimes use sans fonts for posters and slide presentations.

Since the real work is done by students, we try to provide a "free" TeX
environment
for writing dissertations and reports so students won't be tempted to take
away copies
of licensed fonts and so they will be able to use the same TeX environment
wherever
they end up working.  This has meant using Belleek instead of Mathtime, but
"real soon 
now" they will be using txr, pxr, and/or mathpazo. 

encodings:

Usually LY1, but we frequently get sections of documents contributed by
outside 
agencies that can use almost anything found in one of the TeX distributions.

-----Original Message-----
From: Hans Hagen
To: ntg-context@ntg.nl
Sent: 3/12/01 12:50 PM
Subject: fonts fonts and fonts

[...]
How many of you use fonts other that cmr and what fonts? In what
encodings?
In what combinations?  

Hans

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE |
pragma@wxs.nl
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The
Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 |
www.pragma-ade.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

RE: fonts fonts and fonts

[Hans Hagen]

At 09:38 AM 3/13/01 -0400, White, George wrote:
>fonts:
>
>We use Y&Y's Lucida family for one series of reports. In the past we have
>used 
>mathtime for documents that specified Times-Roman for the body, but next
>time 
>we will probably want to use the txr fonts.  Since we are a government

What is txr? 

>institution,
>some documents that become part of the permanent record must use only the
>Adobe base
>fonts to generate PDF (the theory being that someone will be able to figure
>out how 
>print such files in in 200 years -- if we can't avoid using a symbol that
>isn't in 
>the base fonts we use the outline path).  

> interesting: the non embedded adobe 15 will then bring problems, while
embedded ones would have gone ok
> now" they will be using txr, pxr, and/or mathpazo. 

where can i find info on those last three? 

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[siep.kroonenberg]

On 13 Mar, Christoph Dreyer wrote:
> Hi!
> 

Sorry, little accident with my mail program. Meant to just forward
messages to private account to answer at ease but instead forwarded back
to list.

-- 
Siep Kroonenberg
Kluwer Academic Publishers, Prepress Department
Achterom 119, 3311 KB Dordrecht, The Netherlands
siep.kroonenberg@wkap.nl

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[Christoph Dreyer]

Hi!

On Mon, Mar 12, 2001, Hans Hagen wrote:

> Fonts is still one of the more complicated areas in tex. I have written a
> perl script that can do some of the tasks needed to install a 'commercial'
> font under context. 

Are you using fontinst for this? This should imho be the best way to do
it, because you can also use the font for tex/latex.

> There are several issues that need to be taken care of: 
> 
> - copying fonts the right location in the texmf-local tree

tetex keeps all font-related files in subdirs foundry/fontname, e.g.
fonts/tfm/adobe/minion.

> - generating a map file for pdftex 

This should be easy. But pdftex needs to know about the map file.  For
tetex you have to edit the script updmap and place the name of the new
map file in a variable. After that you need to call updmap, which will
create a new map file for dvips and pdftex.

> - generating font synonyms

The user should tell the script if it's a serif, sansserif or whatever.

> Now, i'm thinking of setting up a font tfm/vf/map repository but first i
> want to knwo if there is any need for that. 

A repository for what? 

> An important issue is the encoding and naming. I know that there are all
> those predefined kb font names, but i never work that way: i just use the
> original names and one encoding. So, we need to make choices as well as
> provide methods, auto map file inclusion etc. It's not that hard actually
> but i can only do this if we agree upon it. I want to get rid of the tex
> font mess -)

Imho it's better to stay with fontinst. But this certainly needs
an easy-to-use frontend. If you tell the user, after fontinst has
completed, that he can now use Minion by \setupbodyfont [minion], then
he won't see anything of the "tex font mess". So the user should use the
real name of the font, but the software the kb names.

> How many of you use fonts other that cmr and what fonts? In what encodings?
> In what combinations?  

I have used the standard pdf fonts, Lucidabright, Utopia, Charter and
the Microsoft Core Fonts. All in texnansi encoding, because I still
don't understand how this encoding stuff works... :-(  But I never
had problems with this. Except that some symbols are taken from
the Computer Modern Math fonts.

Hope this helps.

Christoph

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[Hans Hagen]

At 12:11 AM 3/13/01 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi!
>
>On Mon, Mar 12, 2001, Hans Hagen wrote:
>
>> Fonts is still one of the more complicated areas in tex. I have written a
>> perl script that can do some of the tasks needed to install a 'commercial'
>> font under context. 
>
>Are you using fontinst for this? This should imho be the best way to do
>it, because you can also use the font for tex/latex.

i've given up on fontinst long ago, i just use the fonts out of the box and
only generate tfm's 

>> There are several issues that need to be taken care of: 
>> 
>> - copying fonts the right location in the texmf-local tree
>
>tetex keeps all font-related files in subdirs foundry/fontname, e.g.
>fonts/tfm/adobe/minion.

i currently di that as well, but i keep all fonts on the local tree, i even
use the tir times fonts instead of the funny named ones 

>create a new map file for dvips and pdftex.

i must admit that i only looked at pdftex and dvipsone, is dvips already in
tune with pdftex with regardd to the map file? 

>A repository for what? 

the tfm files that i use + the map files that i use for fonts that i bought
/ use

>Imho it's better to stay with fontinst. But this certainly needs
>an easy-to-use frontend. If you tell the user, after fontinst has
>completed, that he can now use Minion by \setupbodyfont [minion], then
>he won't see anything of the "tex font mess". So the user should use the
>real name of the font, but the software the kb names.

I only wished that the kb named were more verbose which should not be a
problem today. [i also want as less tfm files on my machine as possible;
actually, it's near to impossible to explain to organization that we work
for to explain what those names are]

minion/myriad are very special cases; i'm playing with myriad now, and
adobe does not even provide the files it says is provides [that's a real mess]

>I have used the standard pdf fonts, Lucidabright, Utopia, Charter and
>the Microsoft Core Fonts. All in texnansi encoding, because I still
>don't understand how this encoding stuff works... :-(  But I never
>had problems with this. Except that some symbols are taken from
>the Computer Modern Math fonts.

texnansi is good (i use it here) but i'm not sure how it matches ec, i just
installed the informal math and helvetica math; seems to work ok too [but
it's hard to find a match for myriad]

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

fonts fonts and fonts

[Hans Hagen]

Hi all, 

Fonts is still one of the more complicated areas in tex. I have written a
perl script that can do some of the tasks needed to install a 'commercial'
font under context. I'm also working on some math fonts (like micropress
informal which is a nice one and y&y mathtime that can be used with many
fonts).

There are several issues that need to be taken care of: 

- copying fonts the right location in the texmf-local tree
- generating a map file for pdftex 
- generating font synonyms

Now, i'm thinking of setting up a font tfm/vf/map repository but first i
want to knwo if there is any need for that. 

An important issue is the encoding and naming. I know that there are all
those predefined kb font names, but i never work that way: i just use the
original names and one encoding. So, we need to make choices as well as
provide methods, auto map file inclusion etc. It's not that hard actually
but i can only do this if we agree upon it. I want to get rid of the tex
font mess -)

How many of you use fonts other that cmr and what fonts? In what encodings?
In what combinations?  

Hans

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[Frans Goddijn]

> How many of you use fonts other that cmr and what fonts? In what
encodings?
> In what combinations?

I do, I use a special set of the Times font that Taco configured for me. I
have no idea what encodings and combinations -- I looked into it but
concluded that it's all way above my head.

If it were easier I would probably sooner contemplate buying a new font
family. As it is, it would mean spending money on PFB files and being
completely lost with them, unless I could find a guru like Taco to do all
the installation work ;=}}

Groet!

frans

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[Christoph Dreyer]

Hi!

On Mon, Mar 12, 2001, Hans Hagen wrote:

> Fonts is still one of the more complicated areas in tex. I have written a
> perl script that can do some of the tasks needed to install a 'commercial'
> font under context. 

Are you using fontinst for this? This should imho be the best way to do
it, because you can also use the font for tex/latex.

> There are several issues that need to be taken care of: 
> 
> - copying fonts the right location in the texmf-local tree

tetex keeps all font-related files in subdirs foundry/fontname, e.g.
fonts/tfm/adobe/minion.

> - generating a map file for pdftex 

This should be easy. But pdftex needs to know about the map file.  For
tetex you have to edit the script updmap and place the name of the new
map file in a variable. After that you need to call updmap, which will
create a new map file for dvips and pdftex.

> - generating font synonyms

The user should tell the script if it's a serif, sansserif or whatever.

> Now, i'm thinking of setting up a font tfm/vf/map repository but first i
> want to knwo if there is any need for that. 

A repository for what? 

> An important issue is the encoding and naming. I know that there are all
> those predefined kb font names, but i never work that way: i just use the
> original names and one encoding. So, we need to make choices as well as
> provide methods, auto map file inclusion etc. It's not that hard actually
> but i can only do this if we agree upon it. I want to get rid of the tex
> font mess -)

Imho it's better to stay with fontinst. But this certainly needs
an easy-to-use frontend. If you tell the user, after fontinst has
completed, that he can now use Minion by \setupbodyfont [minion], then
he won't see anything of the "tex font mess". So the user should use the
real name of the font, but the software the kb names.

> How many of you use fonts other that cmr and what fonts? In what encodings?
> In what combinations?  

I have used the standard pdf fonts, Lucidabright, Utopia, Charter and
the Microsoft Core Fonts. All in texnansi encoding, because I still
don't understand how this encoding stuff works... :-(  But I never
had problems with this. Except that some symbols are taken from
the Computer Modern Math fonts.

Hope this helps.

Christoph

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[S2P development]

Christoph Dreyer wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2001, Hans Hagen wrote:
> 
> > Fonts is still one of the more complicated areas in tex. I have written a
> > perl script that can do some of the tasks needed to install a 'commercial'
> > font under context.
> 
> Are you using fontinst for this? This should imho be the best way to do
> it, because you can also use the font for tex/latex.

fontinst is a confusing affair. While it is fairly easy to install
a simple text font with it, it is very hard to do something complicated.
People keep telling me that it's possible, but it doesnt make a lot
of sense to me. 

Also, I don't understand why it was coded in TeX (don't tell me it is
for ease of use ... it's not easy to use ... and it's not helpful for 
portability ... fontinst doesn't even do any of the non-portable stuff). 

In short: I don't like fontinst, nor will I ever. But it does make 
sense to create an 8t/7t encoded tfm along with the texnansi one for 
context. 

> > There are several issues that need to be taken care of:
> >
> > - copying fonts the right location in the texmf-local tree
> 
> tetex keeps all font-related files in subdirs foundry/fontname, e.g.
> fonts/tfm/adobe/minion.

In general, this is the easy part (at least for all TDS-conforming
distributions).

> > - generating a map file for pdftex
> 
> This should be easy. But pdftex needs to know about the map file.  For
> tetex you have to edit the script updmap and place the name of the new
> map file in a variable. After that you need to call updmap, which will
> create a new map file for dvips and pdftex.

updmap is a hack. I'm sure Thomas would be happy to replace it
with something cleaner.

> > Now, i'm thinking of setting up a font tfm/vf/map repository but first i
> > want to knwo if there is any need for that.
> 
> A repository for what?

For metric files, basically. Right?

Y&Y still have the tfm files for the full Adobe library on-line, which 
is basically the same idea hans is going for. Have a look at:

    http://www.yandy.com/usely1.htm

> > An important issue is the encoding and naming. I know that there are all
> > those predefined kb font names, but i never work that way: i just use the
> > original names and one encoding. So, we need to make choices as well as
> > provide methods, auto map file inclusion etc. It's not that hard actually
> > but i can only do this if we agree upon it. I want to get rid of the tex
> > font mess -)
> 
> Imho it's better to stay with fontinst. But this certainly needs
> an easy-to-use frontend. If you tell the user, after fontinst has
> completed, that he can now use Minion by \setupbodyfont [minion], then
> he won't see anything of the "tex font mess". So the user should use the
> real name of the font, but the software the kb names.

I believe that if you do all of the hard work yourself anyway, that
it is probably a better idea to replace fontinst alltogether. (But,
as I said earlier, keeping the functionality intact). 

Technically: it is easy to replace 8r (the so-called Adobe Raw encoding)
with 8y (texnansi) as the base encoding on top of which you can build
the 8-bit latex virtual font version. 

> > How many of you use fonts other that cmr and what fonts? In what 
> > encodings? In what combinations?

I lost track, really. :-)

texnansi is generally the easiest encoding to install, so most of the
simple fonts I used had that encoding, and most of the hard ones had
'do-it-yourself' encodings. (trying to fit e.g. TimesExpert into the 
'text companion' encoding is just too much work for me).

Greetings, Taco

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[Han The Thanh]

> > Are you using fontinst for this? This should imho be the best way to do
> > it, because you can also use the font for tex/latex.
> 
> fontinst is a confusing affair. While it is fairly easy to install
> a simple text font with it, it is very hard to do something complicated.
> People keep telling me that it's possible, but it doesnt make a lot
> of sense to me. 
> 
> Also, I don't understand why it was coded in TeX (don't tell me it is
> for ease of use ... it's not easy to use ... and it's not helpful for 
> portability ... fontinst doesn't even do any of the non-portable stuff). 

completely agree!

> In short: I don't like fontinst, nor will I ever. But it does make 
> sense to create an 8t/7t encoded tfm along with the texnansi one for 
> context. 

I do use fontinst, because I don't have anything more reasonable to deal
with things like composed glyphs, letterspacing, kerning and the likes.
Don't tell me that afm2tfm can do that job.

Thanh

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[Hans Hagen]

At 10:33 AM 3/13/01 +0100, S2P development wrote:

>For metric files, basically. Right?

indeed, with the accompanying map files, i now generate something 

texnansi-adobe-myriad.map 

as well as a tex test file which also shows how to include them (using
their internal names, which for some reason are always inconsistent:
blabla-bold-italic vs blablabold-italic vs blabla-bolditalic vs blabla-bi
or whatever). 

>Y&Y still have the tfm files for the full Adobe library on-line, which 
>is basically the same idea hans is going for. Have a look at:
>
>    http://www.yandy.com/usely1.htm

i'll have a look 

>I believe that if you do all of the hard work yourself anyway, that
>it is probably a better idea to replace fontinst alltogether. (But,
>as I said earlier, keeping the functionality intact). 

a matter of stepwise improvement adn i bet that you have some ideas too

>Technically: it is easy to replace 8r (the so-called Adobe Raw encoding)
>with 8y (texnansi) as the base encoding on top of which you can build
>the 8-bit latex virtual font version. 

how i would like texnansi-blabla.tfm and rawtex-blabla.tfm ...  

>> > How many of you use fonts other that cmr and what fonts? In what 
>> > encodings? In what combinations?
>
>I lost track, really. :-)

well, if *you* lost it, then who kept track

A thought: why not use unicode mapping? The regimes can map onto it and
internally we can then stick to <font><char> pairs. We only need to create
series of virtual files i suppose? I don;t know what the consequence for
patterns is, but it would solves the mix ten languages that don't map onto
one font instance problem

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[H. Ramm]

S2P development schrieb:
>fontinst is a confusing affair. While it is fairly easy to install
>a simple text font with it, it is very hard to do something complicated.
>People keep telling me that it's possible, but it doesnt make a lot
>of sense to me. 

Walter Schmidt told me, he is detecting more and more errors in fontinst,
 the more he looks into it... (esp. for small caps and other expert fonts)

-- 
Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://angerweit.tikon.ch/    http://www.drucktechniker2001.de/
http://www.planet-interkom.de/fiee.visuelle/formelsammlung.html

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[Steve Lumos]

>How many of you use fonts other that cmr and what fonts? In what encodings?
>In what combinations?  
>
>Hans

I have the Lucida Bright Expert collection on order.  In the poetry
chapbook I'm currently working on, I'm thinking of using Lucida Bright
in the body and Ludica Casual or Handwriting for headings.

I've done two other poetry chapbooks with LaTeX, one in Palatino, and
the other in the Pandora metafont, which I liked quite alot.

I'm looking for recomendations for fonts that are a little decorative
but still easy to read for typesetting poems.

Steve

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[Hans Hagen]

At 11:12 PM 3/12/01 -0800, Steve Lumos wrote:
>
>>How many of you use fonts other that cmr and what fonts? In what encodings?
>>In what combinations?  
>>
>>Hans
>
>I have the Lucida Bright Expert collection on order.  In the poetry
>chapbook I'm currently working on, I'm thinking of using Lucida Bright
>in the body and Ludica Casual or Handwriting for headings.

you can see lucidas in action in the math ml manual [where i used the
handwriting for headings]

Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl
                      Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[Uwe Koloska]

Am Dienstag, 13. März 2001 08:12 hast du geschrieben:

> I've done two other poetry chapbooks with LaTeX, one in Palatino, and
> the other in the Pandora metafont, which I liked quite alot.
>
> I'm looking for recomendations for fonts that are a little decorative
> but still easy to read for typesetting poems.

I do like the "Bradley Hand" but haven't used it yet for longer texts 
myself.  But the Adobe Illustrator handbook shows some longer texts with it 
and there it looks very good.

Uwe

-- 
mailto:koloska@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de
http://rcswww.urz.tu-dresden.de/~koloska/
--                                    --
right now the web page is in german only
but this will change as time goes by ;-)

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[Ed L Cashin]

Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> writes:

> Fonts is still one of the more complicated areas in tex. I have written a
> perl script that can do some of the tasks needed to install a 'commercial'
> font under context. 

If you succeed in creating an easy way to install commercial fonts,
this tool will likely become very popular.

...
> How many of you use fonts other that cmr and what fonts? In what
> encodings?  In what combinations?

I used postscript Courier bold once.  (Mostly I stick to cmr, partly
because there's been no tool like the one you're making.)

-- 
--Ed Cashin                   PGP public key:
  ecashin@terry.uga.edu       http://www.terry.uga.edu/~ecashin/pgp/

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[Uwe Koloska]

Am Montag, 12. März 2001 17:50 hast du geschrieben:
> Hi all,
> [for lack of time I only refer to the last question]
>
> How many of you use fonts other that cmr and what fonts? In what
> encodings? In what combinations?

I do love fonts.  And I use many different ones (not in the same document 
thought!)  For the last project (a journal that I promised to make a report 
about the work) I managed to implement a family of TTF fonts (Glasgow 
Serial) from the demo collection:
  http://www.freefont.de/de/megastar.htm
and a headline font (Batmos) from
  http://buddha.graphix.dk/

There are lots of problems with the existing tools.  I hope to prepare a 
report on that font challenge the next days ...

Uwe  

-- 
mailto:koloska@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de
http://rcswww.urz.tu-dresden.de/~koloska/
--                                    --
right now the web page is in german only
but this will change as time goes by ;-)

Re: fonts fonts and fonts

[H. Ramm]

Another font hint:
There are some new font packages (metrics, install instructions etc, 
no pfb) for LaTeX by Walter Schmidt on his homepage:
<http://home.vr-web.de/was/fonts>

Perhaps someone could adapt them for ConTeXt?

-- 
Grüßlis vom Hraban!
---
http://angerweit.tikon.ch/    http://www.drucktechniker2001.de/
http://www.planet-interkom.de/fiee.visuelle/formelsammlung.html