Re: Hanging punctuation misalignment in footnotes

Re: Hanging punctuation misalignment in footnotes

[Jan Tosovsky]

On 2014-02-22 Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> 
> when hanging in footnotes is enabled and the starting character is a
> punctuation, it is not protruded. However, the same character in the
> footnote body works fine. When both cases are close each other, it
> looks weird, see the screenshot:
> 
> http://drifted.in/other/footnote_alignment.png
> 
> Would it be possible make this behaviour uniform - either do not
> protrude it
> on the starting (left) edge or protrude it everywhere?
> 

A minimal example is available at 
http://drifted.in/other/sample.tex

(those guillemets would be lost here in the mailing list)

Tested in the current beta on Windows (it requires Palatino Linotype font).

Jan

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Re: Hanging punctuation misalignment in footnotes

[Hans Hagen]

On 2/22/2014 1:25 AM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> On 2014-02-22 Jan Tosovsky wrote:
>>
>> when hanging in footnotes is enabled and the starting character is a
>> punctuation, it is not protruded. However, the same character in the
>> footnote body works fine. When both cases are close each other, it
>> looks weird, see the screenshot:
>>
>> http://drifted.in/other/footnote_alignment.png
>>
>> Would it be possible make this behaviour uniform - either do not
>> protrude it
>> on the starting (left) edge or protrude it everywhere?
>>
>
> A minimal example is available at
> http://drifted.in/other/sample.tex
>
> (those guillemets would be lost here in the mailing list)
>
> Tested in the current beta on Windows (it requires Palatino Linotype font).

Hard to solve that one fast .. basically all that gets bound to a next 
characters makes that next character not protrude. This is not something 
the engine can solve as it doesn't know what it deals with (so the 
current behaviour is as it should be).

Maybe in a future version of context I can deal with it (as I know how 
to do it, but that doesn't help much now).

Hans

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Re: Hanging punctuation misalignment in footnotes

[Jan Tosovsky]

On 2014-02-22 Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 2/22/2014 1:25 AM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> > On 2014-02-22 Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> >>
> >> when hanging in footnotes is enabled and the starting character is a
> >> punctuation, it is not protruded. However, the same character in the
> >> footnote body works fine. When both cases are close each other, it
> >> looks weird, see the screenshot:
> >>
> >> http://drifted.in/other/footnote_alignment.png
> >>
> >> Would it be possible make this behaviour uniform - either do not
> >> protrude it
> >> on the starting (left) edge or protrude it everywhere?
> >>
> >
> > A minimal example is available at
> > http://drifted.in/other/sample.tex
> >
> > (those guillemets would be lost here in the mailing list)
> >
> > Tested in the current beta on Windows (it requires Palatino Linotype
> font).
> 
> Hard to solve that one fast .. basically all that gets bound to 
> a next characters makes that next character not protrude. This is 
> not something the engine can solve as it doesn't know what it deals 
> with (so the current behaviour is as it should be).

:-/

> Maybe in a future version of context I can deal with it (as I know how
> to do it, but that doesn't help much now).

I am looking forward to it. 

While I can intervene manualy now {\hskip -0.7mm}>Fel..., it is of no use
for dynamic publishing.

Thanks, Jan

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Re: Hanging punctuation misalignment in footnotes

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 22.02.2014 um 01:25 schrieb Jan Tosovsky <j.tosovsky@email.cz>:

> On 2014-02-22 Jan Tosovsky wrote:
>> 
>> when hanging in footnotes is enabled and the starting character is a
>> punctuation, it is not protruded. However, the same character in the
>> footnote body works fine. When both cases are close each other, it
>> looks weird, see the screenshot:
>> 
>> http://drifted.in/other/footnote_alignment.png
>> 
>> Would it be possible make this behaviour uniform - either do not
>> protrude it
>> on the starting (left) edge or protrude it everywhere?
>> 
> 
> A minimal example is available at 
> http://drifted.in/other/sample.tex

There are two things which prevent the protrusion of the opening quote at the begin of the paragraph. One of these can be avoided with a change in the setup for footnotes but not the other without destroying the layout of the footnote text.


One problem is the way how context places the footnote number in front of the text, by default context uses the \llap command to move the number into the left margin but this prevents also the protrusion of the opening quote. You can avoid this problem when you change the footnote setup to \setupnotation[footnote][alternative=margin].

<example>
\definefontfeature[default][default][expansion=quality,protrusion=quality]

\setupbodyfont[modern]

\setupalign[hanging]

\showframe[text][text]

\starttext

»Text«

\noindent\hbox to 0pt{}»Text«

\noindent\hbox to 0pt{\hss}»Text«

\stoptext
</example>


The second problem which prevents the opening quote to protrude are the struts which are added by context at the begin and end of the footnote content and there is no way to disable them because they are needed to have proper spacing between the individual footnote texts on the same page.

<example>
\definefontfeature[default][default][expansion=quality,protrusion=quality]

\setupbodyfont[modern]

\setupalign[hanging]

\showframe[text][text]

\starttext

»Text«

\strut »Text«

\stoptext
</example>


In the example below where I took care of these two problems (don’t take care of \begstrut in this way in your real document because it will cause many problems, it’s just for educational purpose) to show you this is what caused the unwanted output.

<example>
\definefontfeature[default][default][expansion=quality,protrusion=quality]

\setupbodyfont[modern]

\setupalign[hanging]

\showframe[text][text]

\setupnotation[footnote][alternative=margin,align=hanging]

\starttext

\let\begstrut\relax

First Footnote.\footnote{»\input{ward}«}

Second Footnote.\footnote{»\input{ward}«}

\stoptext
</example>

Wolfgang
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Re: Hanging punctuation misalignment in footnotes

[Jan Tosovsky]

On 2014-02-23 Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> On 2014-02-22 Jan Tosovsky wrote: 
> > On 2014-02-22 Jan Tosovsky wrote:
> >>
> >> when hanging in footnotes is enabled and the starting character 
> >> is a punctuation, it is not protruded. However, the same character 
> >> in the footnote body works fine. When both cases are close each 
> >> other, it looks weird, see the screenshot:
> >>
> >> http://drifted.in/other/footnote_alignment.png
> >
> > A minimal example is available at
> > http://drifted.in/other/sample.tex
> 
> One problem is the way how context places the footnote number in 
> front of the text, by default context uses the \llap command to move 
> the number into the left margin but this prevents also the protrusion
> of the opening quote. You can avoid this problem when you change the
> footnote setup to \setupnotation[footnote][alternative=margin].
> 

Placing labels into margin seems to be a default settings. 

> 
> The second problem which prevents the opening quote to protrude are
> the struts which are added by context at the begin and end of the 
> footnote content and there is no way to disable them because they are 
> needed to have proper spacing between the individual footnote texts 
> on the same page.
> 

Hans quote from another thread:
>
> for the footnote case there is no real solution as the heuristics of
> finding a protrusion character cannot be tricked too much without
> breaking it in other cases
> 
> but ... i think i can cook up something extra in the engine to drive
> the process

I can't reproduce the original issue in the latest beta (0.90). Was there
something improved in this regard?

It looks really great!

Many thanks, 

Jan


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Re: Hanging punctuation misalignment in footnotes

[Hans Hagen]

On 3/29/2016 11:07 PM, Jan Tosovsky wrote:

> I can't reproduce the original issue in the latest beta (0.90). Was there
> something improved in this regard?

yes, some improvements in the engine and (so far only in a few places) 
adaption to that in context

> It looks really great!

it looks consistent; if it looks 'great' is a matter of taste

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
       tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Hanging punctuation misalignment in footnotes

[Thangalin]

Hi Jan,

Do you have some test code you can share?
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Hanging punctuation misalignment in footnotes

[Jan Tosovsky]

Dear All,

when hanging in footnotes is enabled and the starting character is a
punctuation, it is not protruded. However, the same character in the
footnote body works fine. When both cases are close each other, it looks
weird, see the screenshot:

http://drifted.in/other/footnote_alignment.png

Would it be possible make this behaviour uniform - either do not protrude it
on the starting (left) edge or protrude it everywhere?

Thanks, Jan

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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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