From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/41675 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Thomas A. Schmitz" Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: distro info Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:35:09 +0200 Message-ID: References: <6faad9f00806100858m332b0c18w1726368830a29a3c@mail.gmail.com> <46D24799-264A-4AFE-9089-A63F4226985C@mpq.mpg.de> <8687593C-CFC0-4F6A-9EA2-091FC7CBB2CC@di.unito.it> <6faad9f00806110905q32b9c142t6af44f2edf85adbf@mail.gmail.com> <4F0FF6A1-CBA4-455D-80A5-785E59607044@di.unito.it> <181B45FF-223C-4CBB-8909-F4C9BB2E0C5B@fiee.net> <653FF68A-0886-4ECA-A87C-36D95138437A@uni-bonn.de> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v924) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1213449859 13793 80.91.229.12 (14 Jun 2008 13:24:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:24:19 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sat Jun 14 15:25:01 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl ([131.211.172.88] helo=ronja.ntg.nl) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1K7Vkb-0005MW-4S for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:25:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAEDE2002E; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:24:10 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 21452-03-26; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:23:27 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.vet.uu.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F7691FEFE; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:01:27 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2062C1FEFA for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:01:26 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from ronja.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 12978-04-8 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:00:41 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mailout01.t-online.de (mailout01.t-online.de [194.25.134.80]) by ronja.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 491A91FF01 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:35:24 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from fwd25.aul.t-online.de by mailout01.t-online.de with smtp id 1K7U2U-0001xc-01; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:35:22 +0200 Original-Received: from [192.168.0.2] (VUMvRYZ-QhatLZvUxVpln4sf2gJpqF1tyr2S-pw0pPtj2Fpj3GoKy5LmDHt-A5iQRF@[87.178.80.254]) by fwd25.aul.t-online.de with esmtp id 1K7U2H-0OaE5o0; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:35:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.924) X-ID: VUMvRYZ-QhatLZvUxVpln4sf2gJpqF1tyr2S-pw0pPtj2Fpj3GoKy5LmDHt-A5iQRF@t-dialin.net X-TOI-MSGID: 94f4b755-61f7-45cb-9e15-37bf3f2e502a X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:41675 Archived-At: On Jun 14, 2008, at 1:07 PM, Oliver Buerschaper wrote: > Actually, I strongly disagree with the opinion that the only way to > properly interact with TeX is via the command line. > > Counter example: in Mac application development your IDE of choice > will almost certainly be Xcode. Although it delegates the entire > compilation process to gcc you *never* ever see the command line. And > there's no need to. All errors and warnings output by gcc are > intercepted and passed on to you via the graphical IDE and you won't > lose a tiny bit of information. In fact you gain a lot when trying to > track down a problem ... > > Furthermore, in my humble opinion interaction with TeX should > concentrate on programming the actual typesetting language and not on > fumbling around with dozens of configuration files ... for instance, > if you develop applications you wouldn't want to reconfigure your > compiler twice a week either but rather focus on the source code *you* > write. > > Oliver Who said that "the only way to properly interact with TeX is via the command line"? What I said is: you can provide all the GUI tools you want, at some point (and this will be rather sooner than later) problems will crop up, and these problems will be impossible to resolve if you don't want to use the command line, don't want to learn about PATH settings, don't want to learn about where configuration files go and what they do. This may be different in, say 10 years, but it would be misleading to pretend that it is different today. TeXLive 2008 is just being tested, and in this regard, it's no better than its predecessors. Unless and until we have systems which will be easier to maintain, users who expect to be able to stay away from the CLI are bound to be disappointed. Your example about Apple's Xcode actually proves my point: I said that if you can afford to throw a couple of million $ and a dozen programmers at this, it is actually feasible (but will still take time). Apple has done just that; the Xcode IDE hasn't been built by volunteers in their spare time, now has it? So far, nobody has done anything similar for TeX, and I had the impression that the volunteer programmers who are actively contributing to it seem more interested in adding new features and improving the code than in adding a colorful pointy-clicky interface. But of course my impression could be wrong and someone is already building such a GUI as we speak... As for "fumbling around with dozens of configuration files": such exaggerations are not very helpful in this discussion. Thomas ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________