Re: Section alone on the page

Re: Section alone on the page

["H. Özoguz"]

Am 20.11.2012 12:00, schrieb ntg-context-request@ntg.nl:
> It?s a problem with \blank which ignore the ?samepage? keyword in grid mode.
>
> When you process this example in normal mode ?line 40? is moved to the second page but in grid mode it stays on the first page.
Is theat easy to fix or a long-term-todo? (Layouting books, I need 
gridding, indeed, at first that was my reason to start with context)

Huseyin
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Re: Section alone on the page

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/20/2012 3:22 PM, "H. Özoguz" wrote:
> Am 20.11.2012 12:00, schrieb ntg-context-request@ntg.nl:
>> It?s a problem with \blank which ignore the ?samepage? keyword in grid
>> mode.
>>
>> When you process this example in normal mode ?line 40? is moved to the
>> second page but in grid mode it stays on the first page.
> Is theat easy to fix or a long-term-todo? (Layouting books, I need
> gridding, indeed, at first that was my reason to start with context)

it will probably be improved over time, but interplay between skips an 
penalties and such is always tricky; we have a weighted system in place 
but even then ...

Hans


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Re: Section alone on the page

["H. Özoguz"]

Am 21.11.2012 13:01, schrieb Hans Hagen:
> On 11/20/2012 3:22 PM, "H. Özoguz" wrote:
>> Am 20.11.2012 12:00, schrieb ntg-context-request@ntg.nl:
>>> It?s a problem with \blank which ignore the ?samepage? keyword in grid
>>> mode.
>>>
>>> When you process this example in normal mode ?line 40? is moved to the
>>> second page but in grid mode it stays on the first page.
>> Is theat easy to fix or a long-term-todo? (Layouting books, I need
>> gridding, indeed, at first that was my reason to start with context)
>
> it will probably be improved over time, but interplay between skips an 
> penalties and such is always tricky; we have a weighted system in 
> place but even then ...
>
> Hans 

Ok, so what are my alternatives for layouting big projects like books, 
with lots of sections?

Of course I could always go through and manually add "\page", but that 
would be the worst-case, and possibily an origin for many mistakes.

Is there any work-around or other possibilities for this? Downgrading to 
older versions of context is no alternative, because I need some 
modules, which need the newest version. And I can not layout with 
gridset=yes, too.

I'm thinking of some script, which checks globally how the sections are 
set (like I can do it manually) and adds "\page" to the files before the 
section-commands or deletes the "\page", if it is not needed anymore.

Huseyin
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Re: Section alone on the page

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/21/2012 1:09 PM, "H. Özoguz" wrote:
> Am 21.11.2012 13:01, schrieb Hans Hagen:
>> On 11/20/2012 3:22 PM, "H. Özoguz" wrote:
>>> Am 20.11.2012 12:00, schrieb ntg-context-request@ntg.nl:
>>>> It?s a problem with \blank which ignore the ?samepage? keyword in grid
>>>> mode.
>>>>
>>>> When you process this example in normal mode ?line 40? is moved to the
>>>> second page but in grid mode it stays on the first page.
>>> Is theat easy to fix or a long-term-todo? (Layouting books, I need
>>> gridding, indeed, at first that was my reason to start with context)
>>
>> it will probably be improved over time, but interplay between skips an
>> penalties and such is always tricky; we have a weighted system in
>> place but even then ...
>>
>> Hans
>
> Ok, so what are my alternatives for layouting big projects like books,
> with lots of sections?
>
> Of course I could always go through and manually add "\page", but that
> would be the worst-case, and possibily an origin for many mistakes.
>
> Is there any work-around or other possibilities for this? Downgrading to
> older versions of context is no alternative, because I need some
> modules, which need the newest version. And I can not layout with
> gridset=yes, too.
>
> I'm thinking of some script, which checks globally how the sections are
> set (like I can do it manually) and adds "\page" to the files before the
> section-commands or deletes the "\page", if it is not needed anymore.

adding before={\testpage[5]\blank} or so

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Section alone on the page

[luigi scarso]

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On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:

> On 11/21/2012 1:09 PM, "H. Özoguz" wrote:
>
>> Am 21.11.2012 13:01, schrieb Hans Hagen:
>>
>>> On 11/20/2012 3:22 PM, "H. Özoguz" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 20.11.2012 12:00, schrieb ntg-context-request@ntg.nl:
>>>>
>>>>> It?s a problem with \blank which ignore the ?samepage? keyword in grid
>>>>> mode.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you process this example in normal mode ?line 40? is moved to the
>>>>> second page but in grid mode it stays on the first page.
>>>>>
>>>> Is theat easy to fix or a long-term-todo? (Layouting books, I need
>>>> gridding, indeed, at first that was my reason to start with context)
>>>>
>>>
>>> it will probably be improved over time, but interplay between skips an
>>> penalties and such is always tricky; we have a weighted system in
>>> place but even then ...
>>>
>>> Hans
>>>
>>
>> Ok, so what are my alternatives for layouting big projects like books,
>> with lots of sections?
>>
>> Of course I could always go through and manually add "\page", but that
>> would be the worst-case, and possibily an origin for many mistakes.
>>
>> Is there any work-around or other possibilities for this? Downgrading to
>> older versions of context is no alternative, because I need some
>> modules, which need the newest version. And I can not layout with
>> gridset=yes, too.
>>
>> I'm thinking of some script, which checks globally how the sections are
>> set (like I can do it manually) and adds "\page" to the files before the
>> section-commands or deletes the "\page", if it is not needed anymore.
>>
>
> adding before={\testpage[5]\blank} or so
>
>
https://mail.google.com/mail/#search/\\testpage/137d7bd313501ff5
-- 
luigi

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Re: Section alone on the page

["H. Özoguz"]

Am 21.11.2012 14:40, schrieb Hans Hagen:
>
> adding before={\testpage[5]\blank} or so
Thanks Hans, thats quite useful for me (for other purposes, too).
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Re: Section alone on the page

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 21.11.2012 um 13:01 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:

> On 11/20/2012 3:22 PM, "H. Özoguz" wrote:
>> Am 20.11.2012 12:00, schrieb ntg-context-request@ntg.nl:
>>> It?s a problem with \blank which ignore the ?samepage? keyword in grid
>>> mode.
>>> 
>>> When you process this example in normal mode ?line 40? is moved to the
>>> second page but in grid mode it stays on the first page.
>> Is theat easy to fix or a long-term-todo? (Layouting books, I need
>> gridding, indeed, at first that was my reason to start with context)
> 
> it will probably be improved over time, but interplay between skips an penalties and such is always tricky; we have a weighted system in place but even then …


I would have expected to get the same results from \blank[samepage,…] and \nobreak\blank[…] as you can see in the example “samepage” doesn’t work.

\setuplayout[grid=yes]

\starttext

\dostepwiserecurse{1}{40}{1}{Line \recurselevel\par}
\blank[samepage,line]
\dostepwiserecurse{41}{50}{1}{Line \recurselevel\par}

\page

\dostepwiserecurse{1}{40}{1}{Line \recurselevel\par}
\nobreak\blank[line]
\dostepwiserecurse{41}{50}{1}{Line \recurselevel\par}

\stoptext

Wolfgang
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Re: Section alone on the page

["H. Özoguz"]

Am 21.11.2012 13:10, schrieb ntg-context-request@ntg.nl:
> And I can not layout with
> gridset=yes, too.

Sorry: I mean "I can not layout withOUT gridset=yes, too.", of course.

Huseyin
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Re: Section alone on the page

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 20.11.2012 um 08:56 schrieb H. Özoguz <h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de>:

> I got this eMail, and copy it here, maybe someone understands what changed and caused this Bug.
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++
> 
> I looked at your not_so_short_example in ntg-context Digest, Vol 101, Issue 53,	18 November 2012,  and I found that your problem, the section title alone at the bottom of a page, occurs only in some versions of the ConTeXt standalone, not in others. That on TeXLive will be OK (it was on my installation) My recent version of ConTeXt (14-11-2012) was not OK but some older versions (from march and may this year and even as recent as october 28) do not give your problem. For he others, I tried to avoid the problem by adding  to your setup:
> 
> \clubpenalty=10000 % keine Schusterjungen / no clubs (from Ubuch)
> \widowpenalty=10000 % keine Hurenkinder / no widows
> 
> but that did not change anything, starngely enough.
> 
> Maybe you could ask Hans Hagen or Wolfgang Schuster to have a look at the code and find out what's wrong.
> I hope this helps a little for the time being.


It’s a problem with \blank which ignore the “samepage” keyword in grid mode.

When you process this example in normal mode “line 40” is moved to the second page but in grid mode it stays on the first page.

%\setuplayout[grid=yes]

\starttext
\dostepwiserecurse{1}{40}{1}{Line \recurselevel\par}
\blank[samepage,line]
\dostepwiserecurse{41}{50}{1}{Line \recurselevel\par}
\stoptext

Wolfgang
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Re: Section alone on the page

["H. Özoguz"]

I got this eMail, and copy it here, maybe someone understands what 
changed and caused this Bug.

++++++++++++++++++

I looked at your not_so_short_example in ntg-context Digest, Vol 101, Issue 53,	18 November 2012,  and I found that your problem, the section title alone at the bottom of a page, occurs only in some versions of the ConTeXt standalone, not in others. That on TeXLive will be OK (it was on my installation) My recent version of ConTeXt (14-11-2012) was not OK but some older versions (from march and may this year and even as recent as october 28) do not give your problem. For he others, I tried to avoid the problem by adding  to your setup:

\clubpenalty=10000 % keine Schusterjungen / no clubs (from Ubuch)
\widowpenalty=10000 % keine Hurenkinder / no widows

but that did not change anything, starngely enough.

Maybe you could ask Hans Hagen or Wolfgang Schuster to have a look at the code and find out what's wrong.
I hope this helps a little for the time being.

+++++++++++++

Huseyin




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Re: Section alone on the page

["H. Özoguz"]

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Am 18.11.2012 21:58, schrieb ntg-context-request@ntg.nl:
> When you uncomment the \setuphead setting in the following example context won?t move the heading
> to the next page with the text after it, the important thing to achieve this is the ?preference? keyword in
> \blank which permits the page break.
>
> %\setuphead[section][after={\blank[big,preference]}]
>
> \starttext
>
> \dorecurse{39}{Line \recurselevel\par}
>
> \section
>
> Another line
>
> \stoptext
>
> Wolfgang
Thanks, but I think this one is not the problem. I have made this 
minexample:

+++++++++++++++

\definepapersize[MyBook][A5]

\setuppapersize[MyBook][A5] % Prints on paper the size of MyBook

\usemodule [simplefonts][size=11pt]

\setmainfont[Times New Roman][expansion=quality,protrusion=quality]

\setuplayout[location=middle,

topspace=1cm,

bottomspace=1.5cm,

width=middle,

cutspace=1.3cm,

backspace=1.8cm,

height=fit,

footer=1.2cm,

grid=yes]

\starttext

\dorecurse{28}{Line \recurselevel\par}

\section{Should not be alone}

Blabliblub

\stoptext
+++++++++++++++++

I know: Does not look like an minexample, but was the only way to 
reproduce the issue. What could be the problem?

Thanks
Huseyin




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Re: Section alone on the page

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 18.11.2012 um 21:07 schrieb "H. Özoguz" <h.oezoguz@mmnetz.de>:

> How to permit the section-title to be set alone on the page-buttom?
> 
> I do not want to start always a new page with \section, but in the cases, where the title is set alone on the page, it should start a new page before \section.


When you uncomment the \setuphead setting in the following example context won’t move the heading
to the next page with the text after it, the important thing to achieve this is the “preference” keyword in
\blank which permits the page break.

%\setuphead[section][after={\blank[big,preference]}]

\starttext

\dorecurse{39}{Line \recurselevel\par}

\section

Another line

\stoptext

Wolfgang
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Re: Section alone on the page

[Aditya Mahajan]

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On Sun, 18 Nov 2012, "H. Özoguz" wrote:

> How to permit the section-title to be set alone on the page-buttom?
>
> I do not want to start always a new page with \section, but in the cases, 
> where the title is set alone on the page, it should start a new page before 
> \section.

You can try with

    \setuphead[section][page=preference]

Aditya

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Section alone on the page

["H. Özoguz"]

How to permit the section-title to be set alone on the page-buttom?

I do not want to start always a new page with \section, but in the 
cases, where the title is set alone on the page, it should start a new 
page before \section.

Huseyin
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