Marking a textfragment for later reference

Marking a textfragment for later reference

[Robert Blackstone]

Dear list,

How can I refer to some text, for example a discussion of a particular topic, on another page or in another chapter of my document with, for instance "(See discussion on page xx)"?
I tried to do this by marking the relevant text as a delimited text without altering its layout:
\definedelimitedtext[topica]
\setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous?
\starttopica
some text
\stoptopica

and then, further on, referring to that text with  (See discussion on \at{page}[topica])
But this does not work (mkiv 27-07).

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Best regards,
Robert Blackstone
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Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 05.08.2012 um 16:05 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:

> Dear list,
> 
> How can I refer to some text, for example a discussion of a particular topic, on another page or in another chapter of my document with, for instance "(See discussion on page xx)"?
> I tried to do this by marking the relevant text as a delimited text without altering its layout:
> \definedelimitedtext[topica]
> \setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous?
> \starttopica
> some text
> \stoptopica
> 
> and then, further on, referring to that text with  (See discussion on \at{page}[topica])
> But this does not work (mkiv 27-07).


With \definedelimtedtext you can create your own quote and quotation command or environment.

You can set your own references in the text with \pagereference:

\starttext

This is the first topic.\pagereference[topic:1]

\page

This is another topic.\pagereference[topic:2]

\blank

This example contains two topic, the first topic is on \at{page}[topic:1] and the second on \at{page}[topic:2].

\stoptext

Wolfgang
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Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference

[Marco Patzer]

Hi Robert,

\starttext
See \in{section}[sec:foo] on \at{page}[sec:foo]
or the text on \at{page}[ref:a].

\page
\startsection [title=Foo, reference=sec:foo]
\stopsection
\page

Some text\reference[ref:a]
\stoptext


Marco

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Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference

[Robert Blackstone]

On  Sun, 5 Aug 2012 16:37:36 +0200
> Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster@gmail.com>
> wrote
> 
> Am 05.08.2012 um 16:05 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:
> 
>> 
>> How can I refer to some text, for example a discussion of a particular topic, on another page or in another chapter of my document with, for instance "(See discussion on page xx)"?
> 
> You can set your own references in the text with \pagereference:
> 
> \starttext
> 
> This is the first topic.\pagereference[topic:1]
> 
> \page
> 
> This is another topic.\pagereference[topic:2]
> 
> \blank
> 
> This example contains two topic, the first topic is on \at{page}[topic:1] and the second on \at{page}[topic:2].
> 
> \stoptext
> 
> Wolfgang

Thank you very much, Wolfgang. Marvelously simple and effective.

Kind regards,

Robert Blackstone
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference

[Robert Blackstone]

On  Sun, 5 Aug 2012 16:38:12 +0200
Marco Patzer <homerow@lavabit.com
wrote

>> Am 05.08.2012 um 16:05 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:
>> 
>>> 
>>> How can I refer to some text, for example a discussion of a particular topic, on another page or in another chapter of my document with, for instance "(See discussion on page xx)"?

> Hi Robert,
> 
> \starttext
> See \in{section}[sec:foo] on \at{page}[sec:foo]
> or the text on \at{page}[ref:a].
> 
> \page
> \startsection [title=Foo, reference=sec:foo]
> \stopsection
> \page
> 
> Some text\reference[ref:a]
> \stoptext
 Thank you Marco. Another very useful tool for me. I realize now that many things with labels can be used as anchors for references, and I'm still a bit surprised that a delimited text with a label cannot be used that way.
Anyway, your and Wolfgang Schuster's advice give me all I need on this point.

Kind regards,
Robert Blackstone
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Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 06.08.2012 um 09:41 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:

> Thank you Marco. Another very useful tool for me. I realize now that many things with labels can be used as anchors for references, and I'm still a bit surprised that a delimited text with a label cannot be used that way.

Where has the delimited text in your example a label?

Wolfgang

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Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference

[Robert Blackstone]

On 6 aug. 2012, Mon, 6 Aug 2012 14:16:09 +020
Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster@gmail.com> wrote
> Am 06.08.2012 um 09:41 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:
> 
>> Thank you Marco. Another very useful tool for me. I realize now that many things with labels can be used as anchors for references, and I'm still a bit surprised that a delimited text with a label cannot be used that way.
> 
> Where has the delimited text in your example a label?
> 
> Wolfgang


I had not included a minimal example but I had run some trials. Since they did not work, and you gave me a good solution, I trashed them. I kept the pdf's though, in which I included the source. So I can reconstruct the examples.
I'll try to make it again tomorrow morning. I would be interested to learn what sort of errors I committed.
Kind regards,
Robert Blackstone
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Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference

[Robert Blackstone]

On 6 aug. 2012, Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>
wrote
> 
> On 6 aug. 2012, Mon, 6 Aug 2012 14:16:09 +020
> Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster@gmail.com> wrote
>> Am 06.08.2012 um 09:41 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:
>> 
>>> Thank you Marco. Another very useful tool for me. I realize now that many things with labels can be used as anchors for references, and I'm still a bit surprised that a delimited text with a label cannot be used that way.
>> 
>> Where has the delimited text in your example a label?
>> 
>> Wolfgang
> 
> 
> I had not included a minimal example but I had run some trials. Since they did not work, and you gave me a good solution, I trashed them. I kept the pdf's though, in which I included the source. So I can reconstruct the examples.
> I'll try to make it again tomorrow morning. I would be interested to learn what sort of errors I committed.
> Kind regards,
> Robert Blackstone


Here follows my minimal example. I reasoned that the identifier [topica] might act as a label, or an anchor, or whatever the correct ConTeXt name is, for a reference.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

\definedelimitedtext[topica]
\setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous? I do not need a layout different from the rest of the text.
\starttext

 Some text.

\starttopica
Some text to explain a certain topic, called topica.
\stoptopica

Some more text about topica. (See discussion on \at{page}[topica])

\stoptext

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
To avoid any misunderstanding: this is no longer a problem since I have been given excellent advice. But it intrigues me. Why can some identifiers, for example of figures, be used for internal references and others not?

Best regards,
Robert Blackstone
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Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference

[Pontus Lurcock]

On Tue 07 Aug 2012, Robert Blackstone wrote:

> Here follows my minimal example. I reasoned that the identifier [topica] might act as a label, or an anchor, or whatever the correct ConTeXt name is, for a reference.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> \definedelimitedtext[topica]
> \setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous? I do not need a layout different from the rest of the text.
> \starttext
> 
>  Some text.
> 
> \starttopica
> Some text to explain a certain topic, called topica.
> \stoptopica
> 
> Some more text about topica. (See discussion on \at{page}[topica])
> 
> \stoptext
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To avoid any misunderstanding: this is no longer a problem since I have been given excellent advice. But it intrigues me. Why can some identifiers, for example of figures, be used for internal references and others not?

In this case, I'd say it's because you're defining a delimited text
style which can be used in multiple places. Your document could have
five hundred \starttopica...\stoptopica blocks on different pages.
A figure identifier, on the other hand, is meant to be unique.

Pont
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Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 07.08.2012 um 09:42 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:

> 
> On 6 aug. 2012, Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>
> wrote
>> 
>> On 6 aug. 2012, Mon, 6 Aug 2012 14:16:09 +020
>> Wolfgang Schuster <wolfgang.schuster@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Am 06.08.2012 um 09:41 schrieb Robert Blackstone <blackstone.robert@gmail.com>:
>>> 
>>>> Thank you Marco. Another very useful tool for me. I realize now that many things with labels can be used as anchors for references, and I'm still a bit surprised that a delimited text with a label cannot be used that way.
>>> 
>>> Where has the delimited text in your example a label?
>>> 
>>> Wolfgang
>> 
>> 
>> I had not included a minimal example but I had run some trials. Since they did not work, and you gave me a good solution, I trashed them. I kept the pdf's though, in which I included the source. So I can reconstruct the examples.
>> I'll try to make it again tomorrow morning. I would be interested to learn what sort of errors I committed.
>> Kind regards,
>> Robert Blackstone
> 
> 
> Here follows my minimal example. I reasoned that the identifier [topica] might act as a label, or an anchor, or whatever the correct ConTeXt name is, for a reference.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> \definedelimitedtext[topica]
> \setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous? I do not need a layout different from the rest of the text.

Here you’re telling context to create the new delimitedtext environment \starttopica … \stoptopica. The first argument for both commands (\define and \setup) is the new of the environment which you want to create or change.

Wolfgang

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Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference

[Robert Blackstone]

On 7 aug. 2012,  Pontus Lurcock <pont@talvi.net>
wrote
> 
> On Tue 07 Aug 2012, Robert Blackstone wrote:
> 
>> Here follows my minimal example. I reasoned that the identifier [topica] might act as a label, or an anchor, or whatever the correct ConTeXt name is, for a reference.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> \definedelimitedtext[topica]
>> \setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous? I do not need a layout different from the rest of the text.
>> \starttext
>> 
>> Some text.
>> 
>> \starttopica
>> Some text to explain a certain topic, called topica.
>> \stoptopica
>> 
>> Some more text about topica. (See discussion on \at{page}[topica])
>> 
>> \stoptext
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To avoid any misunderstanding: this is no longer a problem since I have been given excellent advice. But it intrigues me. Why can some identifiers, for example of figures, be used for internal references and others not?
> 
> In this case, I'd say it's because you're defining a delimited text
> style which can be used in multiple places. Your document could have
> five hundred \starttopica...\stoptopica blocks on different pages.
> A figure identifier, on the other hand, is meant to be unique.
> 
> Pont
Hi Pont,
Thanks for your comment. I realized this. There would of course be only one "\starttopica...\stoptopica block" in my text. If I would like to use delimited texts in this manner for several different topics, I would simply give them different names. Each topic its own name, like [topicb], [topicc], etc. Like you would do if you wanted to use slightly different types of blockquote in your document.
So my question: "Why can some identifiers, for example of figures, be used for internal references and others not?" remains unanswered.
Best regards,
Robert

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Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference

[Sietse Brouwer]

Hi Robert,

> So my question: "Why can some identifiers,
> for example of figures, be used for internal
> references and others not?" remains unanswered.

That would be because there are
* names, for creating a named variant of some command
* and labels, which are used for cross-references,
and I think you are calling them both identifiers. (Not sure I'm using
the official terms, or if there are any.)

Some examples below, I hope they'll clarify things. I never had any
problems confusing labels and names myself, so I'm not sure how to
explain what was obvious to me, but perhaps this will help:

Names occur when you're defining things; Labels occur when you're
placing things.

As for why you can't do

\definedelimitedtext[AA]

\startAA[mylabel]
bla
\stopAA

I guess that was never baked in. Probably because quotations are not
really numbered objects, and so not obvious candidates for having
their own labels.

Cheers,

Sietse

%%%%%%% Example: label %%%%%
\placefigure
  [here]
  [fig:myfig] % label: used to refer to the figure
  {caption}{figure}

%%%%%%% Example: command like \startNAME %%%%%
\definedelimitedtext
    [smallquote]  % name
    [style=small]

\startsmallquote % our own named environment
   bla bla bla
\stopsmallquote

%%%%% Example: names and labels %%%%%
\useexternalfigure
    [littlecow]   % define a named picture
    [cow.pdf]
    [width=1cm]

\placefigure
    [here]
    [fig:littlecow]  % a label for the figure float
    {Kleine, kleine koe}
    {\externalfigure[littlecow]} % invoking a named picture


--
Sietse Brouwer -- sbbrouwer@gmail.com -- +31 6 13.456.848
Verlengde Wassenaarseweg 4a -- 2342 BG Oegstgeest -- the Netherlands
MSN: sietse@gawab.com -- ICQ: 341232104


On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Robert Blackstone
<blackstone.robert@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 7 aug. 2012,  Pontus Lurcock <pont@talvi.net>
> wrote
>>
>> On Tue 07 Aug 2012, Robert Blackstone wrote:
>>
>>> Here follows my minimal example. I reasoned that the identifier [topica] might act as a label, or an anchor, or whatever the correct ConTeXt name is, for a reference.
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> \definedelimitedtext[topica]
>>> \setupdelimitedtext[topica][left=,right=] %maybe superfluous? I do not need a layout different from the rest of the text.
>>> \starttext
>>>
>>> Some text.
>>>
>>> \starttopica
>>> Some text to explain a certain topic, called topica.
>>> \stoptopica
>>>
>>> Some more text about topica. (See discussion on \at{page}[topica])
>>>
>>> \stoptext
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To avoid any misunderstanding: this is no longer a problem since I have been given excellent advice. But it intrigues me. Why can some identifiers, for example of figures, be used for internal references and others not?
>>
>> In this case, I'd say it's because you're defining a delimited text
>> style which can be used in multiple places. Your document could have
>> five hundred \starttopica...\stoptopica blocks on different pages.
>> A figure identifier, on the other hand, is meant to be unique.
>>
>> Pont
> Hi Pont,
> Thanks for your comment. I realized this. There would of course be only one "\starttopica...\stoptopica block" in my text. If I would like to use delimited texts in this manner for several different topics, I would simply give them different names. Each topic its own name, like [topicb], [topicc], etc. Like you would do if you wanted to use slightly different types of blockquote in your document.
> So my question: "Why can some identifiers, for example of figures, be used for internal references and others not?" remains unanswered.
> Best regards,
> Robert
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
> archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
> wiki     : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Marking a textfragment for later reference

[Robert Blackstone]

On 7 aug. 2012, 12:47:06 Sietse Brouwer <sbbrouwer@gmail.com>
wrote
> 
> I guess that was never baked in. Probably because quotations are not
> really numbered objects, and so not obvious candidates for having
> their own labels.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Sietse
Hi Sietse,
Thanks for your answer and your patience. 
It is clear now: marking a textfragment for later reference by means of a delimited text is not necessary and therefore not enabled. 
Thanks again.

Best regards,
Robert
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