From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/104560 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Atsuhito Kohda Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: feature request Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2019 08:35:10 +0900 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1096911586352984600==" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="10747"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sat Jul 06 01:36:09 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from zapf.boekplan.nl ([5.39.185.232] helo=zapf.ntg.nl) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hjXkO-0002g8-Ui for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Jul 2019 01:36:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20CDC14A1C9; Sat, 6 Jul 2019 01:35:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UQWQUPRGpfRe; Sat, 6 Jul 2019 01:35:29 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 398F8152487; Sat, 6 Jul 2019 01:35:29 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F069115247A for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2019 01:35:27 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id chYjjP9WBpGj for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2019 01:35:22 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: Pass (mailfrom) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.85.167.178; helo=mail-oi1-f178.google.com; envelope-from=atsu10.kohda@gmail.com; receiver= Original-Received: from mail-oi1-f178.google.com (mail-oi1-f178.google.com [209.85.167.178]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0E28151FF5 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2019 01:35:22 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by mail-oi1-f178.google.com with SMTP id m202so8241087oig.6 for ; Fri, 05 Jul 2019 16:35:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=KGtrXyc5PZRikQFrIIFHfhVfLEU1eoGUsr2ynkNpDO4=; b=UkKV44WI2JUTMYfSPowhtNvognm4JWrDQaFyVtUAPHueKROGsjv+jqUA+zUreMLq9o IrrNEWUHnpEjgul2hoR1P6NHQdi5Lwu3ap05Nt2EmZcmGmb6YsXMtHqxcXPIOVdZ/bEK quIGg0HmV1+JTFHsyew1JElGzZDK92DfFJybgBH6VFlk6Xf7/B4pFUKPXuoEx5d8pNcj 3xQI/OH3H17bOcqwWHWHSEUZIkuOIUALv7M84gkOSj1bJ4I3hjOEZ3I9Owgfm6WvkDPB g5uRAsrVUiXjZJVKFOUfKb8njIKGRzTqZagD/MgdibkNsDhq0wXK7vRvwD5RqjMnLZBF rTYg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=KGtrXyc5PZRikQFrIIFHfhVfLEU1eoGUsr2ynkNpDO4=; b=sEo1OUxCz1T7Ftt+6Adl7V+zXZtqWkkz5SxucFNFUcy8HrjDsMjKjZY6M2MA55doc5 KLP6hrL6eQnZ3SIZ9c93/zb4EHTOWjFkQnNJMl9R7mztU2LOo6J8hT7hhWY6YSTMvxaV sX5grT3oeAGefXrsQ3vrRqv/tK512ht7AoE4gUlynM/AfqsV8RseMbs0E4w7wiV5fIP0 YdaVSMgB3lA5sDOVucV4L7QbHJqsd+PhoxC0cmqSY+LaU9Bop7ZBOAoMp90hbiILx1Kv Dd6/sdY+YspuO3bAXico5jcZTo5MNPiHsOpG43Qdaj4vUF1eJDkhoeRZohn5EVc69zix hDew== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVWytiksPwt1FfaX1c26DtJNPU9CDDspk6xPev+4jD8EeAaC9Ht pdN+Nt0gIgd/hdvDHqSxQL0lbSx+YGIs7YuS1hMwqYSM X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqycxJtY+sp9FS0wIkpBZ1zRqNN/iIGNYfg50PA5IJF/a67KlpaNjCwhM88y7fgsSWjlpRRXEgrDlTNMS75RtTE= X-Received: by 2002:aca:b7c2:: with SMTP id h185mr3429997oif.81.1562369721578; Fri, 05 Jul 2019 16:35:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: "ntg-context" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:104560 Archived-At: --===============1096911586352984600== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004338de058cf78cb1" --0000000000004338de058cf78cb1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Aditya, > You can create a private module with the definitions that you need. If > these are general enough, then you can also release it as a third party > module for others to use. I don't see the value of adding (and > maintaining!) a module that provides LaTeX compatibility as part of the > core. I began to learn ConTeXt since april and begin to write real ConTeXt documents (mostly presentations) since june. Please don't ask me too much. My main request is not to provide LaTeX compatibility but to provide not only one command of matrix but full set of commands for various kind of matrices if possible. Personally, it is true that I think LaTeX compatibility is useful but it is not main issue. Best regards, Atsuhito Kohda 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=885=E6=97=A5(=E9=87=91) 0:18 Aditya Mahajan : > On Thu, 4 Jul 2019, Atsuhito Kohda wrote: > > > Hi Henri, > > Thanks for your suggestions, they are very instructive. > > However, my request is not a smart way of displaying matrices > > but to know why \bmatrix and \vmatrix are not provided > > in core part of ConTeXt although \pmatrix is provided already > > in math-pln.mkiv > > Henri has already answered this. > > [ ... ] > > > One might say ConTeXt is flexible but I've an impression > > that ConTeXt is in a state of confusion/disorder. > > > > I think it is better if a standard command is provided > > by core ConTeXt or by a module etc. > > > > Or is it ConTeXt way that each user defines his/her own commands > > in setup area and uses them in text area? > > I'm afraid consistency and/or portability is lost in such scenario. > > Let me provide an alternative point of view. The commands that you are > suggesting are encode the _visual_ meaning: pmatrix is a matrix with > parenthesis, bmatrix is a matrix with brackets, vmatrix is a matrix with > vertical bars, and so on. One could also use _semantic_ commands: in my > documents, I define a command called MATRIX for typesetting matrices, and > DET for determinant of a matrix. So, I simply type > > \MATRIX{1, 2; 5, 6} and \DET{1, 2; 5, 6}, etc. > > Now, depending on the audience, I sometimes map \MATRIX to pmatrix and > sometimes to bmatrix. I can simply copy paste the code without worrying > about notation. > > If you take this view, then the predefined matrix:parentheses, > matrix:brackets, and matrix:bars are sufficient. > > > BTW, I constantly convert Beamer documents into ConTeXt's > > simpleslide documents recently and it is very convenient > > if I can use \pmatrix{a&b\cr c&d\cr} style because it is similar > > to LaTeX documents. > > You can create a private module with the definitions that you need. If > these are general enough, then you can also release it as a third party > module for others to use. I don't see the value of adding (and > maintaining!) a module that provides LaTeX compatibility as part of the > core. > > Aditya > > > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to > the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ > --0000000000004338de058cf78cb1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Aditya,

> You can create a p= rivate module with the definitions that you need. If
> these are gene= ral enough, then you can also release it as a third party
> module fo= r others to use. I don't see the value of adding (and
> maintaini= ng!) a module that provides LaTeX compatibility as part of the
> core= .

I began to learn ConTeXt since april and begin to write real
Co= nTeXt documents (mostly presentations) since june.
Please don't ask = me too much.

My main request is not to provide LaTeX compatibility b= ut
to provide not only one command of matrix but full set of commandsfor various kind of matrices if possible.
Personally, it is true that I= think LaTeX compatibility is useful
but it is not main issue.

Be= st regards,
Atsuhito Kohda

2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=885=E6=97=A5(=E9= =87=91) 0:18 Aditya Mahajan <aditya= m@umich.edu>:
On Thu, 4 Jul 2019, Atsuhito Kohda wrote:

> Hi Henri,
> Thanks for your suggestions, they are very instructive.
> However, my request is not a smart way of displaying matrices
> but to know why \bmatrix and \vmatrix are not provided
> in core part of ConTeXt although \pmatrix is provided already
> in math-pln.mkiv

Henri has already answered this.

[ ... ]

> One might say ConTeXt is flexible but I've an impression
> that ConTeXt is in a state of confusion/disorder.
>
> I think it is better if a standard command is provided
> by core ConTeXt or by a module etc.
>
> Or is it ConTeXt way that each user defines his/her own commands
> in setup area and uses them in text area?
> I'm afraid consistency and/or portability is lost in such scenario= .

Let me provide an alternative point of view. The commands that you are
suggesting are encode the _visual_ meaning: pmatrix is a matrix with
parenthesis, bmatrix is a matrix with brackets, vmatrix is a matrix with vertical bars, and so on. One could also use _semantic_ commands: in my documents, I define a command called MATRIX for typesetting matrices, and <= br> DET for determinant of a matrix. So, I simply type

\MATRIX{1, 2; 5, 6} and \DET{1, 2; 5, 6}, etc.

Now, depending on the audience, I sometimes map \MATRIX to pmatrix and
sometimes to bmatrix. I can simply copy paste the code without worrying about notation.

If you take this view, then the predefined matrix:parentheses,
matrix:brackets, and matrix:bars are sufficient.

> BTW, I constantly convert Beamer documents into ConTeXt's
> simpleslide documents recently and it is very convenient
> if I can use \pmatrix{a&b\cr c&d\cr} style because it is simil= ar
> to LaTeX documents.

You can create a private module with the definitions that you need. If
these are general enough, then you can also release it as a third party module for others to use. I don't see the value of adding (and
maintaining!) a module that provides LaTeX compatibility as part of the core.

Aditya

___________________________________________________________________________= ________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki!

maillist : ntg-cont= ext@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/nt= g-context
webpage=C2=A0 : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net=
archive=C2=A0 : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-m= irror/commits/
wiki=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________= ________
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