Urdu with NotoNastaliqUrdu-Regular.ttf

Urdu with NotoNastaliqUrdu-Regular.ttf

[Philipp Gesang]

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Hi Hans, everybody

there’s a bug report concerning one of the Noto fonts:

    https://github.com/lualatex/luaotfload/issues/292

Fonts are freely available: https://www.google.com/get/noto/
Quick link to the example translated to Context:

    https://bitbucket.org/phg/lua-la-tex-tests/src/tip/context/cnt-urdu.tex

Those features are what’s applied by Luaotfload by default for
Arabic.

Best,
Philipp



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Re: Urdu with NotoNastaliqUrdu-Regular.ttf

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/27/2015 10:56 PM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> Hi Hans, everybody
>
> there’s a bug report concerning one of the Noto fonts:
>
>      https://github.com/lualatex/luaotfload/issues/292
>
> Fonts are freely available: https://www.google.com/get/noto/
> Quick link to the example translated to Context:
>
>      https://bitbucket.org/phg/lua-la-tex-tests/src/tip/context/cnt-urdu.tex
>
> Those features are what’s applied by Luaotfload by default for
> Arabic.

something cursive but anyhow, there us no urdu language (dflt has to be 
used)


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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Re: Urdu with NotoNastaliqUrdu-Regular.ttf

[Deepak Jois]

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 3:56 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> something cursive but anyhow, there us no urdu language (dflt has to be
> used)

I reported the bug originally. I changed the fontspec directive in my
test file to not specify the language. I got a better output, but
still pretty bad.

Details w/ screenshot:
https://github.com/lualatex/luaotfload/issues/292#issuecomment-160283333

Deepak

PS:  Btw fontspec does not complain about the language. In XeTeX, my
experience has been that if a language is not present, it logs a
message to stdout. I am not sure if fontspec on LuaLaTeX has the same
behavior, but I did not see a message complaining about language.

Also, here is the otfinfo output:

$> otfinfo -s NotoNastaliqUrdu-Regular.ttf
arab            Arabic
arab.ARA        Arabic/Arabic
arab.FAR        Arabic/Farsi
arab.KSH        Arabic/Kashmiri
arab.SND        Arabic/Sindhi
arab.URD        Arabic/Urdu
dflt            <unknown script>
latn            Latin
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Re: Urdu with NotoNastaliqUrdu-Regular.ttf

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/28/2015 12:49 PM, Deepak Jois wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 3:56 PM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>> something cursive but anyhow, there us no urdu language (dflt has to be
>> used)
>
> I reported the bug originally. I changed the fontspec directive in my
> test file to not specify the language. I got a better output, but
> still pretty bad.
>
> Details w/ screenshot:
> https://github.com/lualatex/luaotfload/issues/292#issuecomment-160283333
>
> Deepak
>
> PS:  Btw fontspec does not complain about the language. In XeTeX, my
> experience has been that if a language is not present, it logs a
> message to stdout. I am not sure if fontspec on LuaLaTeX has the same
> behavior, but I did not see a message complaining about language.
>
> Also, here is the otfinfo output:
>
> $> otfinfo -s NotoNastaliqUrdu-Regular.ttf
> arab            Arabic
> arab.ARA        Arabic/Arabic
> arab.FAR        Arabic/Farsi
> arab.KSH        Arabic/Kashmiri
> arab.SND        Arabic/Sindhi
> arab.URD        Arabic/Urdu
> dflt            <unknown script>
> latn            Latin

well, only for gsub, not for gpos where only arab/dflt is defined ... 
okay we could have another heuristic for that but of course it then 
becomes harder to *not* use some feature


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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Urdu with NotoNastaliqUrdu-Regular.ttf

[Deepak Jois]

On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
> well, only for gsub, not for gpos where only arab/dflt is defined

Are you saying that is a bug with the font? If so, I could report it,
for what it’s worth.

Deepak
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Re: Urdu with NotoNastaliqUrdu-Regular.ttf

[Deepak Jois]

On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 7:06 AM, Deepak Jois <deepak.jois@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>> well, only for gsub, not for gpos where only arab/dflt is defined
>
> Are you saying that is a bug with the font? If so, I could report it,
> for what it’s worth.
>

Tried to look into the spec regarding GPOS lookups:
https://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/gpos.htm

<quote>
…

To access GPOS information, clients should use the following procedure:

1. Locate the current script in the GPOS ScriptList table.

2. If the language system is known, search the script for the correct
LangSys table; otherwise, use the script's default language system
(DefaultLangSys table).

…
</quote>
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Re: Urdu with NotoNastaliqUrdu-Regular.ttf

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/29/2015 4:38 AM, Deepak Jois wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 7:06 AM, Deepak Jois <deepak.jois@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>>> well, only for gsub, not for gpos where only arab/dflt is defined
>>
>> Are you saying that is a bug with the font? If so, I could report it,
>> for what it’s worth.
>>
>
> Tried to look into the spec regarding GPOS lookups:
> https://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/gpos.htm
>
> <quote>
> …
>
> To access GPOS information, clients should use the following procedure:
>
> 1. Locate the current script in the GPOS ScriptList table.
>
> 2. If the language system is known, search the script for the correct
> LangSys table; otherwise, use the script's default language system
> (DefaultLangSys table).
>
> …
> </quote>

yes but for testing and control i don't like hard coded defaults so that 
has to go via an option; a next version will have a 'default' option 
that when set to true will fallback on dflt .. and tex is about control

(btw, features and what should be on/off are the messiest part of 
opentype ... and often very inconsistent so ..)

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: Urdu with NotoNastaliqUrdu-Regular.ttf

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/29/2015 2:36 AM, Deepak Jois wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl> wrote:
>> well, only for gsub, not for gpos where only arab/dflt is defined
>
> Are you saying that is a bug with the font? If so, I could report it,
> for what it’s worth.

when it comes to features and its implementation all bugs are also 
features (so if someone puts something positioning related in a gsub 
that is quite possible and i've seen it)

in general i think that features / script / languages are often defined 
a bit sloppy so i always look at what a font really supports (same for 
names in fonts ... i only trust filenames)

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Urdu with NotoNastaliqUrdu-Regular.ttf

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/27/2015 10:56 PM, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> Hi Hans, everybody
>
> there’s a bug report concerning one of the Noto fonts:
>
>      https://github.com/lualatex/luaotfload/issues/292
>
> Fonts are freely available: https://www.google.com/get/noto/
> Quick link to the example translated to Context:
>
>      https://bitbucket.org/phg/lua-la-tex-tests/src/tip/context/cnt-urdu.tex
>
> Those features are what’s applied by Luaotfload by default for
> Arabic.

a next version provides

   autoscript=position|substitution|yes

and

   autolanguage=position|substitution|yes

(no uploads now, probably when luatex 0.86 releases)

Hans

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                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
     tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
                                              | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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