From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/85339 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mica Semrick Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: EPUB woes Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 13:39:11 -0800 Message-ID: References: <52878C67.90007@meahan.net> <5287A29B.6010302@meahan.net> <528A063A.10203@wxs.nl> <63EC0C6C-1DBA-4CE4-84E5-66347AF42417@uni-trier.de> <528A3350.7040306@wxs.nl> <971C0359-183E-490F-B693-EA2801FE9126@uni-trier.de> Reply-To: mailing list for ConTeXt users NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1201109221==" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1384897156 18735 80.91.229.3 (19 Nov 2013 21:39:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 21:39:16 +0000 (UTC) To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Tue Nov 19 22:39:23 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([5.39.185.229]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vit10-0001v4-VC for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 22:39:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE25B101EF; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 22:39:21 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id K8czEz96vR18; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 22:39:19 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9568C101DE; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 22:39:19 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D667A101DE for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 22:39:18 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at balder.ntg.nl Original-Received: from balder.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (balder.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id mTKJBkD3Sdpy for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 22:39:16 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (filter3-ams.mf.surf.net [192.87.102.71]) by balder.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C3110193 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 22:39:16 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mail-wi0-x230.google.com (mail-wi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::230]) by filter3-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id rAJLdBYb012544 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 22:39:12 +0100 Original-Received: by mail-wi0-f176.google.com with SMTP id f4so6139964wiw.9 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 13:39:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=qwybqkUUjtJ7vMatRFlA/uab6CZ1RRPT2rLNsCpGT8E=; b=p3Q5u5ABWgySLvC38JQs578rdMl+1H2a9MIKmQbxGOB56MK4h8FI3E49qHcz7z3txm bMrA979drNxnxZrxKTzyqbd053mUP7aCNc5/O97xt9Tu/LyMfyJQ3X7mKZvwl8ReUn2p h0TDPRvAWO9q90G8tQ9//TbiQ0dHjFSgXYm8Khd3hu5pE3uXoQ7tbfKI7FoZxaM2MIm0 kDzBkKwVNuFl6/mv0FZ1JGtQyP1M+ChL2vmo3YwqcXFNkzPzkIQCOKf0q1pA7GUarlj7 f7Rq/N1bBlNQlwhIEniXJBYQSZGyXETv3tZHYksQYFUwEzdr4o04mtIhFoqX54jOu4iq vm/A== X-Received: by 10.180.198.193 with SMTP id je1mr22527452wic.6.1384897151754; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 13:39:11 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.216.49.8 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 13:39:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <971C0359-183E-490F-B693-EA2801FE9126@uni-trier.de> X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::230; country=IE X-CanItPRO-Stream: uu:ntg-context@ntg.nl (inherits from uu:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 03KPxDcVC - 5dc76d8540cc - 20131119 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.tex.context:85339 Archived-At: --===============1201109221== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6706d5c7e8db04eb8e7e05 --047d7b6706d5c7e8db04eb8e7e05 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Keith, Maybe you should explore an XML format that can be transformed directly to epub. You'd also be able to write a style sheet with ConTeXt that would out put a PDF as well. I think TEI-Lite is a good starting point. Since you can make your own commands in ConTeXt, it will never be able to intelligently map all commands on to simple HTML. On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote: > > Am 18.11.2013 um 16:33 schrieb Hans Hagen : > > On 11/18/2013 4:11 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote: > > Hi Hans, > > > Am 18.11.2013 um 13:21 schrieb Hans Hagen : > > On 11/18/2013 10:00 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote: > > 2) Now, what a EPub-READER must implement to handle is very > little. There are HARDLY ANY provisions that a certified EPuB-READER > has > to implement any particular engine or features therein to > display/render > the information contain in the EPub-file/wrapper. > > > right, and I'm not going to waste time on it till i have a decent ebook > reader that behaves well > > The point you are missing is that the ereaders are behaving well. They are > following the epub > standard, and that to the letter of the standard. The problem is > that the standard does not > enforce any particular implementation. If you look at the slow progress of > the standard that > actually requires a full implementation of the HTML5 standard. That wait > will very long. > > > sure, and every time i see an epub novel i realize that for something like > that one really can stick to rather dumb html ... the point is that one > cannot expect context to output simple everywhere accepted html from > complex rendered input ... > > I agree fully. But, Since there are those that wish to produce epubs aka > ebooks, they should not be doing complex > layout. One can always go from simple to complicated in needed, if there > were commands dedicated to epub/ebooks/html. > As I had pointed out in my last post below. > > > Furthermore, ereaders are made by companies more interested in profits > than spending a few Euros > more to put decent HTML engines into their readers. Why they do not do > that is beyond me! > > > 3. Modify the way in which ConTeXt generates the XML files. Ideally, I > should be able to write something like > > Would be nice if there where commands in ConTeXt or a module for defining > what should go into the CSS and a > mode "epub" where the ConTeXt commands are converted to suitible HTML5 > structures that are suitiable for > most ereaders. > Features: > 1) margins in percentages > 2) font sizes based on em > 3) a new file for every chapter optional for sections user > defined > Just a few. Lots more can be found in any decent documentation on writing > ebooks. > > > context outputs xml and as a bonus provides a css too ... one can always > convert that xml to his/her ebooks liking .. maybe at some point the > mtx-epub script will do that > > > I always to like to look at programming as modular and would think that a > epub/ebook module would be nice that maps > there are commands for layingout ebooks. these commands can then be mapped > back to standard context commands. > > > in that case code in xml and either processit by context or transform it > into something ebooks can render > > For some interested in producing a epub then can use the conventions for > producing ebooks and ConTeXt can provide the > math conversions to regular page dimensions used in PDFs for proofing or > creating a printed version. It would also make the > creation of EPubs from ConTeXt a simple parsing exercise. > > > so far i had no projects where epub was needes so it has a low priority > and i still read paper books (or when i would have ebooks i wouldn't need > to render them) ... pdfs views quite well on e.g. nexus 7 devices and i > assume the upcoming sony high res ebook will also do pdf well > > Well I did start the discussion. Just offer my 2 Euro cents worth. > Especially, since it comes up every now and then. > Furthermore, I there was a simple way to create epubs/books with ConTeXt > more would use this feature. > I have used up enough of or time. > > regards > Keith. > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to > the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > > ___________________________________________________________________________________ > --047d7b6706d5c7e8db04eb8e7e05 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Keith,

Maybe you should explore an XML = format that can be transformed directly to epub. You'd also be able to = write a style sheet with ConTeXt that would out put a PDF as well. I think = TEI-Lite is a good starting point.

Since you can make your own commands in ConTeXt, it wil= l never be able to intelligently map all commands on to simple HTML.
<= /div>


On Mon, = Nov 18, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Keith J. Schultz <schultzk@uni-trier.de&= gt; wrote:

Am 18.11.2013 um 16:33 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:

On 11/18/2013 4:11 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
Hi Hans,


Am 18.11.2013 um 13:21 schrieb Hans Hagen <pragma@wxs.nl>:

<= blockquote type=3D"cite"> On 11/18/2013 10:00 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:

2) Now, what a EPub-READ= ER must implement to handle is very
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0little. There are HARDLY ANY provision= s that a certified EPuB-READER has
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0to implement any particular engine o= r features therein to display/render
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0the information contain in the EPub-f= ile/wrapper.

right, and I'm not going to waste time= on it till i have a decent ebook reader that behaves well
The point you are= missing is that the ereaders are behaving well. They are following the epu= b
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0standard, and that to the letter of the sta= ndard. The problem is that the standard does not
enforce any particular impleme= ntation. If you look at the slow progress of the standard that
actually requires a full implementation= of the HTML5 standard. That =A0wait will very long.

sure, and every time i see an epub novel i realize that fo= r something like that one really can stick to rather dumb html ... the poin= t is that one cannot expect context to output simple everywhere accepted ht= ml from complex rendered input ...
I agr= ee fully. But, Since there are those that wish to produce epubs aka ebooks,= they should not be doing complex
layout. One can always go from simple to complicated in neede= d, if there were commands dedicated to epub/ebooks/html.
As I had pointed out in m= y last post below.


= Furthermore, ereaders are made by companies more interested in profits than= spending a few Euros
more = to put decent HTML engines into their readers. Why they do not do that is b= eyond me!

3. Modify the way in which ConTeXt generates the XML files. Ideally,= I should be able to write something like
Would be nice if there where commands in ConTeX= t or a module for defining what should go into the CSS and a
mode "epub" where th= e ConTeXt commands are converted to suitible HTML5 structures that are suit= iable for
most ereaders. Features:
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A01) margins in percentages
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02) font sizes based on em =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A03) a new file for every chapter optional for = sections user defined
Just a few. Lots more can be f= ound in any decent documentation on writing ebooks.

con= text outputs xml and as a bonus provides a css too ... one can always conve= rt that xml to his/her ebooks liking .. maybe at some point the mtx-epub sc= ript will do that

I always to l= ike to look at programming as modular and would think that a epub/ebook mod= ule would be nice that maps
there are commands for layingout ebooks. these commands can then be mapped= back to standard context commands.

in that case code in xml and either processit by context o= r transform it into something ebooks can render

For some interested in p= roducing a epub then can use the conventions for producing ebooks and ConTe= Xt can provide the
math conversions to regular pa= ge dimensions used in PDFs for proofing or creating a printed version. It w= ould also make the
creation= of EPubs from ConTeXt a simple parsing exercise.

so far i had no projects where epub was needes so it has a= low priority and i still read paper books (or when i would have ebooks i w= ouldn't need to render them) ... pdfs views quite well on e.g. nexus 7 = devices and i assume the upcoming sony high res ebook will also do pdf well=
= Well I did start the discussion. Just offer my 2 Euro cents worth. Especial= ly, since it comes up every now and then.
Furthermore, I there was a simple way to create epubs= /books with ConTeXt more would use this feature.=A0
I have used up enough of or time.
=
regards
=
Keith.



____________________________________________= _______________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / <= a href=3D"http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context" target=3D"_blank"= >http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage =A0: http://= www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive =A0: http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki =A0 =A0 : http:= //contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________= ________

--047d7b6706d5c7e8db04eb8e7e05-- --===============1201109221== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________ --===============1201109221==--