Why is the textarea not centered by default?

Why is the textarea not centered by default?

[Sylvain Hubert]

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Dear List,

    \starttext \showframe \showsetups \stoptext

This minimal example without further configuration shows that the default
value for backspace, textwidth and paperwidth are 2.5cm, 15cm, 21cm resp.,
which means that the textarea is horizontally 0.5cm off the center by
default, and one can indeed see a clear extra margin on the right side.

This seems weird but I'm no expert of typesetting, so does anyone know why
it has been set like that?

Thanks.

Best,
Sylvain

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Re: Why is the textarea not centered by default?

[Henri Menke]

On Thu, 2020-11-05 at 11:28 +0100, Sylvain Hubert wrote:
> Dear List,
> 
>     \starttext \showframe \showsetups \stoptext
> 
> This minimal example without further configuration shows that the default
> value for backspace, textwidth and paperwidth are 2.5cm, 15cm, 21cm resp.,
> which means that the textarea is horizontally 0.5cm off the center by default,
> and one can indeed see a clear extra margin on the right side.
> 
> This seems weird but I'm no expert of typesetting, so does anyone know why it
> has been set like that?

%D The default dimensions are quite old and will not change. The funny fractions
%D were introduced when we went from fixed dimensions to relative ones. Since
%D \CONTEXT\ is a dutch package, the dimensions are based on the metric system.
The
%D asymmetrical layout is kind of handy for short quick||and||dirty stapled
%D documents.

https://github.com/contextgarden/context-mirror/blob/343fdd99ef79884fca1f86b49c950e03939aeedf/tex/context/base/mkiv/page-lay.mkiv#L1373-L1377

> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Best,
> Sylvain
> ______________________________________________________________________________
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> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
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> 
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Re: Why is the textarea not centered by default?

[Sylvain Hubert]

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On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 11:57, Henri Menke <henri@henrimenke.de> wrote:

> %D The default dimensions are quite old and will not change. The funny
> fractions
> %D were introduced when we went from fixed dimensions to relative ones.
> Since
> %D \CONTEXT\ is a dutch package, the dimensions are based on the metric
> system.
> The
> %D asymmetrical layout is kind of handy for short quick||and||dirty stapled
> %D documents.
>
>
> https://github.com/contextgarden/context-mirror/blob/343fdd99ef79884fca1f86b49c950e03939aeedf/tex/context/base/mkiv/page-lay.mkiv#L1373-L1377


So it's for backward compatibility then.
Thanks for the nice anecdote!

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Re: Why is the textarea not centered by default?

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 11/5/20 11:28 AM, Sylvain Hubert wrote:
> Dear List,
>
>     \starttext \showframe \showsetups \stoptext
>
> This minimal example without further configuration shows that the
> default value for backspace, textwidth and paperwidth are 2.5cm, 15cm,
> 21cm resp., which means that the textarea is horizontally 0.5cm off the
> center by default, and one can indeed see a clear extra margin on the
> right side.

Hi Sylvain,

you can avoid this with the following code (althought the "height"
option is probably not needed):

  \setuplayout[width=middle, height=middle]

> This seems weird but I'm no expert of typesetting, so does anyone know
> why it has been set like that?

I’m not expert on typesetting, but I read somewhere (too long ago to be
able to remember when) that printed papers should have wider outer
margins to put your fingers on it.

See the following the output from:

  \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
  \starttext \showframe \showsetups \stoptext

Just in case it helps,

Pablo
--
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: Why is the textarea not centered by default?

[Sylvain Hubert]

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On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 16:25, Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es> wrote:

> Hi Sylvain,
>
> you can avoid this with the following code (althought the "height"
> option is probably not needed):
>
>   \setuplayout[width=middle, height=middle]
>

Thanks Pablo. This happens to be what I've been looking for for a long time.

I’m not expert on typesetting, but I read somewhere (too long ago to be
> able to remember when) that printed papers should have wider outer
> margins to put your fingers on it.
>

Yes, this makes sense.


> See the following the output from:
>
>   \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]
>   \starttext \showframe \showsetups \stoptext
>
> Just in case it helps,
>

Sylvain

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Re: Why is the textarea not centered by default?

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 05.11.2020 um 16:21 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es>:
> 
> I’m not expert on typesetting, but I read somewhere (too long ago to be
> able to remember when) that printed papers should have wider outer
> margins to put your fingers on it.

In classical book layout, the two inner margins (2*backspace) should equal one outer margin.

But this makes *only* sense with thread-bound books that you can open completely.

In glued (perfect bound) books, the inner margin should be at least the same if not bigger than the outer margins to get a similar view.

Modern books, independent of binding techniques, usually don’t use a classical book layout, because that uses a lot of whitespace, i.e. more pages = higher printing and shipping costs.

It’s still true that margins should be big enough for your fingers – but depending on size and content of the book, different uses might suggest different space placement. E.g. I’d use a big inner margin for guides that you usually keep in one hand, thumb in the middle. For textbooks, a big bottom margin makes sense, because you can put it in a stand. A song book / hymnal you’d hold in both hands, so it needs big enough outer margins.

Hraban
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Re: Why is the textarea not centered by default?

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/5/2020 9:58 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> 
>> Am 05.11.2020 um 16:21 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez <oinos@gmx.es>:
>>
>> I’m not expert on typesetting, but I read somewhere (too long ago to be
>> able to remember when) that printed papers should have wider outer
>> margins to put your fingers on it.
> 
> In classical book layout, the two inner margins (2*backspace) should equal one outer margin.
> 
> But this makes *only* sense with thread-bound books that you can open completely.
> 
> In glued (perfect bound) books, the inner margin should be at least the same if not bigger than the outer margins to get a similar view.
> 
> Modern books, independent of binding techniques, usually don’t use a classical book layout, because that uses a lot of whitespace, i.e. more pages = higher printing and shipping costs.
> 
> It’s still true that margins should be big enough for your fingers – but depending on size and content of the book, different uses might suggest different space placement. E.g. I’d use a big inner margin for guides that you usually keep in one hand, thumb in the middle. For textbooks, a big bottom margin makes sense, because you can put it in a stand. A song book / hymnal you’d hold in both hands, so it needs big enough outer margins.
When we started with context (long ago) it was mostly used for single 
sided documents with a staple in the corner and room fo rmaking notes.

Hans

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