From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.comp.tex.context/116780 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: BPJ via ntg-context Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.context Subject: Re: Ajami script Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2023 19:13:57 +0100 Message-ID: References: <86d11eaa-16a9-7757-db06-6ef6387c88bf@fiee.net> Reply-To: bpj@melroch.se, mailing list for ConTeXt users Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8585844206793172143==" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16407"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: BPJ To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Original-X-From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Sun Jan 01 19:14:35 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from zapf.boekplan.nl ([5.39.185.232] helo=zapf.ntg.nl) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pC2qx-00042X-2r for gctc-ntg-context-518@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 01 Jan 2023 19:14:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4149A380373; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 19:14:15 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jkSScIGFhN9J; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 19:14:13 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BBA138034B; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 19:14:13 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E010C380347 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 19:14:11 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at zapf.boekplan.nl Original-Received: from zapf.ntg.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zapf.ntg.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rPlWVuJPfKtA for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 19:14:09 +0100 (CET) Received-SPF: Pass (mailfrom) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.85.128.181; helo=mail-yw1-f181.google.com; envelope-from=melroch@gmail.com; receiver= Original-Received: from mail-yw1-f181.google.com (mail-yw1-f181.google.com [209.85.128.181]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by zapf.ntg.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B19D3802E4 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 19:14:09 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: by mail-yw1-f181.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-3e45d25de97so368008397b3.6 for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2023 10:14:09 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=gZAgZhsJ64ULgziNUvokTa9myd82fCUDTt+ClKocEZY=; b=b7mMw9JivrYX/j+BpxFDYKGlojuxHxwNFTkGaxsINwc+/Rqy86CZsnAD4/MHXXfJrL 5zWgBNCDpz9vJ+NySHzWE+et9kyTBTDMS1twIiHcFlrNDZxCe0tTGBSfSrFHp6jOXpQB /dDuKJZR2GKEVObvjw9nL3w1APqvDLlpU9WEU5s74Dvc1OnfknT313GwGJeMvfiqhoBO BhtPtdBIkSbKgUqizQMWNrh4MQPwoIE3a+bAVncNyeo3qxz3OepvG37SvUQUUrWJmJoD OySeDYkjFfkINB1RykzarsLH/tCTuovgNpusnoV+9EOplr5/WjsAs0i+ISmoDq5juqWa CT5g== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2krEHy1XLRh9jNsYoPFoslvPXC1sHogkEDynNnsvd1WRlrVqh+EG wAEI78gyG6n1yCijDa+hlfhnxe1rdV/SEx1NLmDVJ+Zc X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXsqM/YxRYh59MXR+lmZc2/xmRBpF1LRkRxRz14k2Tm7PFTogsMwY/xwMPUDM0hLBjO8Mwq1YECPLdAo05RIJzo= X-Received: by 2002:a81:17ca:0:b0:46f:bd6:957d with SMTP id 193-20020a8117ca000000b0046f0bd6957dmr2579943ywx.383.1672596847116; Sun, 01 Jan 2023 10:14:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: ntg-context@ntg.nl X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: mailing list for ConTeXt users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl Original-Sender: "ntg-context" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.comp.tex.context:116780 Archived-At: --===============8585844206793172143== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ecc72f05f137cc3e" --000000000000ecc72f05f137cc3e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's a bit confusing because the word =CA=BFajami=CC=84 simply means anythi= ng written in a non-Arabic language with Arabic script. Africa is certainly not the only place where that term has been used. It is also the case that Arabic script has been used to write West African languages for very many centuries. There is no way that guy can have grown up there and not know that so I don't understand what this article is up to. Possibly this is a separate adaptation using its own conventions for writing the local language. Probably just pop-sci sensationalism coupled with some rather severe mis-/non-understanding on the part of the article author. Den s=C3=B6n 1 jan. 2023 14:30Alain Delmotte via ntg-context skrev: > Le 1/01/2023 =C3=A0 11:03, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context a > =C3=A9crit : > > Am 01.01.23 um 10:21 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context: > >> On 12/31/2022 3:06 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm via > >> ntg-context wrote: > >>> I just read this: > >>> > https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/fallou-ngom-discovers-ajami-african-writ= ing-system/ > >>> > >>> > >>> And now I=E2=80=99d like to know if ConTeXt is capable of > >>> typesetting this variant of Arabic. (Just out of > >>> curiosity, I can=E2=80=99t read any Arabic and don=E2=80=99t know any > >>> African language.) > >> Afaiks that script has been known fro a while: > > > > I also thought I heard about it several years ago. The > > article makes it sound like news, that might be the > > perspective of the US scholars or a necessary means to get > > funded. But the oldest sources quoted in Wikipedia are > > from 1971 and 1982. > > The arabic alphabet was also used from the XIth century to > write swahili and some bantu languages around Tanzania and > Kenya (Mozambic, Malawi, Uganda, east of Kongo, Sudan). > > There are articles in Wikipedia. > > https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabet_arabe_swahili > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swahili_language#Orthography > > also: https://www.mustgo.com/worldlanguages/swahili/ see > "writing" > https://omniglot.com/writing/swahili.htm > > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajami_script > >> so when there are proper fonts, as: > >> https://software.sil.org/scheherazade/ > >> https://software.sil.org/harmattan/ > > > > I don=E2=80=99t dare to ask about the Husayni fonts... ;) > > > >> it should be doable. The script is supported by unicode. > >> I get the impression that the arabic scipt is mostly used > >> getting the way the languages sounds on paper so vowels > >> matter. There is mentioning of transliteration and so > >> that might need some specific support. Nothing tex > >> (context) can't do but only users and usage can prove that. > > > > Thank you for your insights! > > Of course it=E2=80=99s a matter of use(r)s. > > > > All the best for a happy new year! > > Hraban > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ > > > > > If your question is of interest to others as well, please > > add an entry to the Wiki! > > > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > > https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > > webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / > > http://context.aanhet.net > > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > > wiki : https://contextgarden.net > > > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to > the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net > archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ > wiki : https://contextgarden.net > > _________________________________________________________________________= __________ > --000000000000ecc72f05f137cc3e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's a bit confusing because the word =CA=BFajami=CC= =84 simply means anything written in a non-Arabic language with Arabic scri= pt. Africa is certainly not the only place where that term has been used. I= t is also the case that Arabic script has been used to write West African l= anguages for very many centuries. There is no way that guy can have grown u= p there and not know that so I don't understand what this article is up= to. Possibly this is a separate adaptation using its own conventions for w= riting the local language. Probably just pop-sci sensationalism coupled wit= h some rather severe mis-/non-understanding on the part of the article auth= or.

Den s=C3=B6n 1 jan. 2023 14:30Alain Delmotte via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> skrev:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Le 1/01/2023 =C3=A0 11:03, Henning Hraban Ram= m via ntg-context a
=C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
> Am 01.01.23 um 10:21 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context:
>> On 12/31/2022 3:06 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm via
>> ntg-context wrote:
>>> I just read this:
>>> https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/fallou-ngom-discovers-ajami-africa= n-writing-system/
>>>
>>>
>>> And now I=E2=80=99d like to know if ConTeXt is capable of
>>> typesetting this variant of Arabic. (Just out of
>>> curiosity, I can=E2=80=99t read any Arabic and don=E2=80=99t k= now any
>>> African language.)
>> Afaiks that script has been known fro a while:
>
> I also thought I heard about it several years ago. The
> article makes it sound like news, that might be the
> perspective of the US scholars or a necessary means to get
> funded. But the oldest sources quoted in Wikipedia are
> from 1971 and 1982.

The arabic alphabet was also used from the XIth century to
write swahili and some bantu languages around Tanzania and
Kenya (Mozambic, Malawi, Uganda, east of Kongo, Sudan).

There are articles in Wikipedia.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabe= t_arabe_swahili
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/= Swahili_language#Orthography

also: https://www.mustgo.com/worldlanguages= /swahili/=C2=A0 see
"writing"
https://omniglot.com/writing/swahili.htm

>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajami_sc= ript
>> so when there are proper fonts, as:
>> https://software.sil.org/scheherazade/=
>> https://software.sil.org/harmattan/
>
> I don=E2=80=99t dare to ask about the Husayni fonts... ;)
>
>> it should be doable. The script is supported by unicode.
>> I get the impression that the arabic scipt is mostly used
>> getting the way the languages sounds on paper so vowels
>> matter. There is mentioning of transliteration and so
>> that might need some specific support. Nothing tex
>> (context) can't do but only users and usage can prove that. >
> Thank you for your insights!
> Of course it=E2=80=99s a matter of use(r)s.
>
> All the best for a happy new year!
> Hraban
>
> ______________________________________________________________________= _____________
>
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please
> add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/n= tg-context
> webpage=C2=A0 : https://www.pragma-ade.nl /
> http://context.aanhet.net
> archive=C2=A0 : https://bitbucket.o= rg/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 : https://contextgarden.net
> ______________________________________________________________________= _____________
>
___________________________________________________________________________= ________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to t= he Wiki!

maillist :
ntg-context@ntg.nl / https:= //www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage=C2=A0 : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http:= //context.aanhet.net
archive=C2=A0 : https://bitbucket.org/ph= g/context-mirror/commits/
wiki=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: https://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________= ________
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