Math typesetting problems

Math typesetting problems

[Janne Junnila]

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Hi all,

I've run into a couple of problems with math typesetting. (I'm using the
latest ConTeXt standalone beta.) The following doesn't print [x,x] at all:

\startformula
[x,x]_t = x
\stopformula

It can be fixed by using \left[x,x\right]_t, but I find the behaviour weird.

Another problem I have is related to the positioning of minus signs in
front of fractions. I would expect the minus sign to align with the
horizontal line of the fraction, as it does on LaTeX. Below is an example
formula to illustrate my point. The result seems to be independent of the
font in use.

\startformula
-\frac{e^{\frac{4}{5}}}{4}
\stopformula


Janne

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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Sietse Brouwer]

Hi Janne,

Janne wrote:
> I've run into a couple of problems with math typesetting. (I'm using the
> latest ConTeXt standalone beta.) The following doesn't print [x,x] at all:
>
> \startformula
> [x,x]_t = x
> \stopformula

This is because \startformula can take one optional argument in square
brackets, and [x,x] is interpreted as that argument. You can make
\startformula stop looking for [...] either by telling it to `\relax`,
or by giving it an empty `[]` of its own to chew on.

\startformula[]
[x,x]_t = x
\stopformula

\startformula\relax
[x,x]_t = x
\stopformula

I can't quite find at the moment what sort of options the [...] can
contain, sorry.

Cheers,
Sietse
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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Janne Junnila]

Hi Sietse,

Sietse wrote:
> This is because \startformula can take one optional argument in square
> brackets, and [x,x] is interpreted as that argument. You can make
> \startformula stop looking for [...] either by telling it to `\relax`,
> or by giving it an empty `[]` of its own to chew on.

Thanks for the explanation, this makes sense. Should have seen that myself. :)

Janne
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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Rogers, Michael K]

On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:09 AM, Sietse Brouwer <sbbrouwer@gmail.com>
 wrote:

> This is because \startformula can take one optional argument in square
> brackets, and [x,x] is interpreted as that argument. You can make
> \startformula stop looking for [...] either by telling it to `\relax`,
> or by giving it an empty `[]` of its own to chew on.
>
> ...
>
> I can't quite find at the moment what sort of options the [...] can
> contain, sorry.

It takes the same options as \switchtobodyfont

\starttext
\startformula[]
[x,x]_t = x
\stopformula
\startformula[small]
[x,x]_t = x
\stopformula
\startformula[24pt]
[x,x]_t = x
\stopformula
\stoptext



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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Roland Thiers]

Le 27 janv. 13 à 12:52, Janne Junnila a écrit :

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Another problem I have is related to the positioning of minus signs  
> in front of fractions. I would expect the minus sign to align with  
> the horizontal line of the fraction, as it does on LaTeX. Below is  
> an example formula to illustrate my point. The result seems to be  
> independent of the font in use.
>
> \startformula
> -\frac{e^{\frac{4}{5}}}{4}
> \stopformula
>
>
> Janne

Hi Janne,

With \dfrac it looks good.
With \fraction the minus sign is on the top of the fraction.
Best regards, Roland

> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an  
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Janne Junnila]

Indeed it seems like the alignment is good with \dfrac, but this does
not solve my problem, since I wish to also use fractions with
script-size or scriptscript-size (\xfrac, \xxfrac). The specific
formula I have is

\startformula
f_{B_t | B_s = S, B_u = U}(x) = \frac{e^{-\frac{(u-s)x^2 - 2x(S(u-t) +
U(t-s)) + \frac{(S(u-t) +
U(t-s))^2}{(u-s)}}{2(t-s)(u-t)}}}{\sqrt{2\pi\frac{(t-s)(u-t)}{u-s}}}
\stopformula

Thanks,
Janne

Roland wrote:
> With \dfrac it looks good.
> With \fraction the minus sign is on the top of the fraction.
> Best regards, Roland
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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Roland Thiers]

Le 28 janv. 13 à 10:11, Janne Junnila a écrit :

> Indeed it seems like the alignment is good with \dfrac, but this does
> not solve my problem, since I wish to also use fractions with
> script-size or scriptscript-size (\xfrac, \xxfrac). The specific
> formula I have is
>
> \startformula
> f_{B_t | B_s = S, B_u = U}(x) = \frac{e^{-\frac{(u-s)x^2 - 2x(S(u-t) +
> U(t-s)) + \frac{(S(u-t) +
> U(t-s))^2}{(u-s)}}{2(t-s)(u-t)}}}{\sqrt{2\pi\frac{(t-s)(u-t)}{u-s}}}
> \stopformula
>
> Thanks,
> Janne
OK !
So you need an expert, I'm just a newbie :)
I would be  interested to know how to do that.
Best, Roland

>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Aditya Mahajan]

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On Mon, 28 Jan 2013, Roland Thiers wrote:

>
> Le 28 janv. 13 à 10:11, Janne Junnila a écrit :
>
>> Indeed it seems like the alignment is good with \dfrac, but this does
>> not solve my problem, since I wish to also use fractions with
>> script-size or scriptscript-size (\xfrac, \xxfrac). The specific
>> formula I have is
>> 
>> \startformula
>> f_{B_t | B_s = S, B_u = U}(x) = \frac{e^{-\frac{(u-s)x^2 - 2x(S(u-t) +
>> U(t-s)) + \frac{(S(u-t) +
>> U(t-s))^2}{(u-s)}}{2(t-s)(u-t)}}}{\sqrt{2\pi\frac{(t-s)(u-t)}{u-s}}}
>> \stopformula
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Janne
> OK !
> So you need an expert, I'm just a newbie :)
> I would be  interested to know how to do that.
> Best, Roland

I'll look into fractions later this week. All the fraction macros of 
ConTeXt were based on \genfrac macro from AMSTeX so, in principle, they 
should behave in the same manner.

Aditya

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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 28.01.2013 um 20:41 schrieb Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu>:

> On Mon, 28 Jan 2013, Roland Thiers wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Le 28 janv. 13 à 10:11, Janne Junnila a écrit :
>> 
>>> Indeed it seems like the alignment is good with \dfrac, but this does
>>> not solve my problem, since I wish to also use fractions with
>>> script-size or scriptscript-size (\xfrac, \xxfrac). The specific
>>> formula I have is
>>> \startformula
>>> f_{B_t | B_s = S, B_u = U}(x) = \frac{e^{-\frac{(u-s)x^2 - 2x(S(u-t) +
>>> U(t-s)) + \frac{(S(u-t) +
>>> U(t-s))^2}{(u-s)}}{2(t-s)(u-t)}}}{\sqrt{2\pi\frac{(t-s)(u-t)}{u-s}}}
>>> \stopformula
>>> Thanks,
>>> Janne
>> OK !
>> So you need an expert, I'm just a newbie :)
>> I would be  interested to know how to do that.
>> Best, Roland
> 
> I'll look into fractions later this week. All the fraction macros of ConTeXt were based on \genfrac macro from AMSTeX so, in principle, they should behave in the same manner.

The \frac command uses \vcenter for the content while \dfrac and \tfrac only set the mathstyle before placing the content with the \over primitive.

Wolfgang
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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

>> I'll look into fractions later this week. All the fraction macros of ConTeXt were based on \genfrac macro from AMSTeX so, in principle, they should behave in the same manner.
>
> The \frac command uses \vcenter for the content while \dfrac and \tfrac 
> only set the mathstyle before placing the content with the \over 
> primitive.

Then something has been lost in the MkII -> MkIV transition. I am pretty 
sure (cannot check right now), that the code in MkII used \genfrac (which 
is a fancy wrapper around \over \ovewithdelim etc)

Aditya
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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Janne,

Personnally I prefer to use the Plain TeX alternative \over (which works fine in ConTeXt), that is
	${a \over b}$
instead of 
	$\frac{a}{b}$
Compare the following two outputs in the example you want to typeset: I think the second is more or less what you want

\starttext
Using \type{\frac} gives:
\startformula
f_{B_t | B_s = S, B_u = U}(x) = \frac{e^{-\frac{(u-s)x^2 - 2x(S(u-t) +
U(t-s)) + \frac{(S(u-t) +
U(t-s))^2}{(u-s)}}{2(t-s)(u-t)}}}{\sqrt{2\pi\frac{(t-s)(u-t)}{u-s}}}
\stopformula
\blank
Using \type{\over} gives:
\startformula
f_{B_t | B_s = S, B_u = U}(x) = {
e^{-{(u-s)x^2 - 2x(S(u-t) + U(t-s)) + 
{(S(u-t) + U(t-s))^2 \over (u-s)} \over 2(t-s)(u-t)}} \over 
\sqrt{2\pi {(t-s)(u-t) \over u-s}}}
\stopformula

\stoptext

Best regards: OK



On 28 janv. 2013, at 10:11, Janne Junnila <janne.junnila@gmail.com> wrote:

> Indeed it seems like the alignment is good with \dfrac, but this does
> not solve my problem, since I wish to also use fractions with
> script-size or scriptscript-size (\xfrac, \xxfrac). The specific
> formula I have is
> 
> \startformula
> f_{B_t | B_s = S, B_u = U}(x) = \frac{e^{-\frac{(u-s)x^2 - 2x(S(u-t) +
> U(t-s)) + \frac{(S(u-t) +
> U(t-s))^2}{(u-s)}}{2(t-s)(u-t)}}}{\sqrt{2\pi\frac{(t-s)(u-t)}{u-s}}}
> \stopformula
> 
> Thanks,
> Janne
> 
> Roland wrote:
>> With \dfrac it looks good.
>> With \fraction the minus sign is on the top of the fraction.
>> Best regards, Roland
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
> 
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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> ___________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Am 28.01.2013 um 21:48 schrieb Aditya Mahajan <adityam@umich.edu>:

> On Mon, 28 Jan 2013, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
>>> I'll look into fractions later this week. All the fraction macros of ConTeXt were based on \genfrac macro from AMSTeX so, in principle, they should behave in the same manner.
>> 
>> The \frac command uses \vcenter for the content while \dfrac and \tfrac only set the mathstyle before placing the content with the \over primitive.
> 
> Then something has been lost in the MkII -> MkIV transition. I am pretty sure (cannot check right now), that the code in MkII used \genfrac (which is a fancy wrapper around \over \ovewithdelim etc)

Yes, MkII uses \genfrac but in MkIV the command is no longer available and all fraction commands have been rewritten.

Wolfgang
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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013, Otared Kavian wrote:

> Hi Janne,
>
> Personnally I prefer to use the Plain TeX alternative \over (which works fine in ConTeXt), that is
> 	${a \over b}$
> instead of
> 	$\frac{a}{b}$
>
> Compare the following two outputs in the example you want to typeset: I think the second is more or less what you want
>
> \starttext
> Using \type{\frac} gives:
> \startformula
> f_{B_t | B_s = S, B_u = U}(x) = \frac{e^{-\frac{(u-s)x^2 - 2x(S(u-t) +
> U(t-s)) + \frac{(S(u-t) +
> U(t-s))^2}{(u-s)}}{2(t-s)(u-t)}}}{\sqrt{2\pi\frac{(t-s)(u-t)}{u-s}}}
> \stopformula

Formatting and temporary macros (I usually use \1 \2 etc) make a huge difference
in readability:

\startformula
   \def\1
       {\frac{
                (u-s)x^2
                - 2x(S(u-t)
                + U(t-s))
                + \frac{(S(u-t) + U(t-s))^2}
                       {(u-s)}
             }{
                2(t-s)(u-t)}
             }
   %
   f_{B_t | B_s = S, B_u = U}(x) =
       \frac { e^{\1} }
             { \sqrt{2\pi\frac{(t-s)(u-t)}{u-s}} }
\stopformula

> \blank
> Using \type{\over} gives:
> \startformula
> f_{B_t | B_s = S, B_u = U}(x) = {
> e^{-{(u-s)x^2 - 2x(S(u-t) + U(t-s)) +
> {(S(u-t) + U(t-s))^2 \over (u-s)} \over 2(t-s)(u-t)}} \over
> \sqrt{2\pi {(t-s)(u-t) \over u-s}}}
> \stopformula
>
> \stoptext

At some stage, we also need to look at nath's automatic conversion of display
fractions to inline fractions (e.g., in the numberator \frac{ (S(u-t) +
U(t-s))^2 } { (u-s) } should be typeset as (S(u-t) + U(t-s))^2/(u-s) because it
is being typeset in \scriptstyle.

Aditya
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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Khaled Hosny]

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 09:33:52PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> 
> The \frac command uses \vcenter for the content while \dfrac and
> \tfrac only set the mathstyle before placing the content with the
> \over primitive.

The use of \vcenter seems odd here as it means the fraction rule will no
longer guranteed to be centered around the math axis:
\starttext
\math{-\frac{a^{2^{2^2}}}{a} {a^{2^{2^2}}\over a}}
\stoptext

Also, why \frac is forcing text style fractions even in display mode?
\starttext
\startformula
-\frac{a^{2^{2^2}}}{a} {a^{2^{2^2}}\over a}
\stopformula
\stoptext

Both behaviours are different from MkII.

Regards,
Khaled
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Re: Math typesetting problems

[Hans Hagen]

On 1/29/2013 12:20 AM, Khaled Hosny wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 09:33:52PM +0100, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>>
>> The \frac command uses \vcenter for the content while \dfrac and
>> \tfrac only set the mathstyle before placing the content with the
>> \over primitive.
>
> The use of \vcenter seems odd here as it means the fraction rule will no
> longer guranteed to be centered around the math axis:
> \starttext
> \math{-\frac{a^{2^{2^2}}}{a} {a^{2^{2^2}}\over a}}
> \stoptext
>
> Also, why \frac is forcing text style fractions even in display mode?
> \starttext
> \startformula
> -\frac{a^{2^{2^2}}}{a} {a^{2^{2^2}}\over a}
> \stopformula
> \stoptext
>
> Both behaviours are different from MkII.

I redid the mkiv code ... configurable, defineable, inheritable ... the 
whole lot

\starttext

\definemathfraction[myfrac] [mathstyle=script]
\definemathfraction[myfracx][mathstyle=script,alternative=outer]

\startformula
{a^{2^{2^2}}\over a}
\frac{a^{2^{2^2}}}{a}
\frac{a^{2}}{b}
\myfrac{a^{2}}{b}
\myfracx{a^{2}}{b}
\stopformula

\stoptext


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